Fire Maurice Drayton And Give MLF, Gute and Murphy The Ultimatum

[Striker]

3 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

The executives care about the football team holistically. The decision has long been made to focus on the primary units rather than the special teams when it comes to roster construction. 

I don't even think that's necessary the wrong philosophy. There are pros and cons to every decision that's made. 

That said, it still took a phenomenally terrible ST performance for this to happen. If we had even been within two standard deviations of our median ST performance, this is a two score win. 

It just so happened that we had two horrendous out of character games on the same Sunday with both the offense and ST performing far below their season averages. 

Looking at the prior Super Bowl winners (and this also means even less as the NFL tries to minimize special teams, specifically returns) you just want a special teams unit that's not going to lose you the game. 

While I'd love to see "average", I'd settle for "not historically awful". If your other two elements are good, you'll be fine after that. As seen by the fact that the 49ers also fielded a bad special teams unit that was still WAY better than the Packers historically awful unit.

[Striker]

2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Sorta, but the weather we had wasn't the kind of weather that was going to kill you. We saw the Bills eviscerate the Patriots in similar weather. 

I mentioned this in a different spot, but how much of an impact does turf vs. grass play, especially when the weather turns ****ty? There are numbers looking at differences in ideal conditions, but I doubt there's a lot of studies made on the surfaces in bad weather.

[Leader]

44 minutes ago, LLcheesehead12 said:

I think you don't understand the broader point, and that is that THIS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

Our problem isn't that we don't fire bad special teams coaches.  It's that we have a massive ineptitude and inability to hire good ones, and it transcends the head coach and is an entire organizational failure.  So I'm mad at everyone in the organization because they have screwed up and given us awful special teams for over 20 years.

In fact, when was the last time we consistently fielded top 10 special teams units?  The Mike Holmgren years?  That's egregiously BAD!!

The fools in the front office and executive suites don't care about fixing this ****.  If they did, we wouldn't be abysmal in this department year in and year out.

I'm sick and tired of this gorilla glue and duct tape approach to fixing special teams.  Enough of this hiring of hacks like Slocum, Ron Zook, Mennenga and Drayton.  Mark Murphy had better tell Gute to make special teams top priority in this draft and get real returners and a real long snapper among other things.  Otherwise they both gotta go.  And do something like spend extra time in practice executing FGs and punts so we can actually get them down to a science.

The next special teams coordinator had better be a total outsider who is going to overhaul everything we been doing here.  And I say hire a consultant to get in LaFleur's ear and make sure he puts some discipline in the special teams camp.

Geeeez. Take a chill pill.

[LLcheesehead12]

13 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

It's also not taking into account that in those same years, Thompson's receivers weren't dominating either. It took guys 2 and sometimes 3 years to get there. A guy like Amari Rodgers shouldn't even be counted in this comparison considering he only just finished his rookie year. 

I think that's fair.  My concern is whether or not our current coaching staff can put him in a position to succeed in his development.

14 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Why are we talking about blame?

Who gives a **** about blame? 

 

Blame aside here's the problem.  Every offense and every QB in this league is going to have bad days.  Brady's been stinking it up against the Saints, Mahomes was bad in last years SB, Dak Prescott had a big caboomer go bad last week ... Pick the QB and I guarantee you you can find bad games.

We may not like it but sometimes in this league you gotta win ugly and offensive points come at a premium.  Such was the case last Saturday.  And in these situations, that's where you have to be fundamentally sound on special teams, and our criminal neglect of that unit is why they weren't and why we lost this game.

At this point, minds are not going to be changed on Rodgers.  Those who want him gone will stick to their guns and those who hope he stays will stick to theirs.  But the special teams blunders are 100% real and this organization should have learned from the NFCCG in Seattle that they can cost you Superbowl trips.

Edited January 25, 2022 by LLcheesehead12

[StatKing]

1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Why the **** are you looking at WRs when we know we're going to likely lose both Preston and Zadarius and we still don't have a 3T that's worth a ****?

I would say with the uncertainty surrounding our entire WR core its definitely our biggest position of need as of right now. We need cheap contracts. Can't keep relying on 1 year rentals. One of the Smith brothers is gone regardless, Rashan Gary is obviously our number 1 edge guy going forward. I think its clear Gute doesn't value 3 techs enough to invest a first round pick in one.

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, Striker said:

I mentioned this in a different spot, but how much of an impact does turf vs. grass play, especially when the weather turns ****ty? There are numbers looking at differences in ideal conditions, but I doubt there's a lot of studies made on the surfaces in bad weather.

The thought process on this actually changed about a decade ago. It used to be assumed that bad weather hurt the offenses. 

Now it's generally tending to lean the opposite. Bad footing slows down the pass rush, but it also can make cutting harder for WRs and DBs. With more zone coverages being played, you're not seeing as much hard cutting by the DBs, so it seems to balance itself out. 

[LLcheesehead12]

11 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

The executives care about the football team holistically. The decision has long been made to focus on the primary units rather than the special teams when it comes to roster construction. 

I don't even think that's necessary the wrong philosophy.

Pretty sure this last game is evidence that it is.  Taking this approach going forward is going to kill this team continually.

[Howler]

17 minutes ago, StatKing said:

Who's the best WR in this draft we could realistically get?

There are a multitude of guys who stylistically fit. But we have holes at DT and LB.

David Bell is a guy to watch for, who has a high floor if you want to use early picks on WR. The kid from Kentucky is another. He's like a Deebo/Cobb clone. Wandale Robinson, who may be available in the third.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Howler

[AlexGreen#20]

2 minutes ago, StatKing said:

I would say with the uncertainty surrounding our entire WR core its definitely our biggest position of need as of right now. We need cheap contracts. Can't keep relying on 1 year rentals. One of the Smith brothers is gone regardless, Rashan Gary is obviously our number 1 edge guy going forward. I think its clear Gute doesn't value 3 techs enough to invest a first round pick in one.

WR is not and will never be a team's biggest position of need. It's not a premium position. 

We have a new DC and play a **** ton of 3 down lineman. We need a 3T.

We're probably losing both Smith's, and even if you do only lose one, you still need a 3rd edge rusher. 

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, LLcheesehead12 said:

Pretty sure this last game is evidence that it is.  Taking this approach going forward is going to kill this team continually.

Is it? How many games did we lose because of ST this year? It doesn't take a drastic shift to get this unit from 32nd to 20th. 

This philosophy has been unfathomably successful for the last decade and a half. 

[Norm]

50 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

@Normwas right about this @StatKingguy. WOW!

I've been online at places like this so long. I just looked at my ignore list this week and nearly every guy is banned now. They're probably all this same dude

[AlexGreen#20]

6 minutes ago, LLcheesehead12 said:

I think that's fair.  My concern is whether or not our current coaching staff can put him in a position to succeed in his development.

 

Blame aside here's the problem.  Every offense and every QB in this league is going to have bad days.  Brady's been stinking it up against the Saints, Mahomes was bad in last years SB, Dak Prescott had a big caboomer go bad last week ... Pick the QB and I guarantee you you can find bad games.

We may not like it but sometimes in this league you gotta win ugly and offensive points come at a premium.  Such was the case last Saturday.  And in these situations, that's where you have to be fundamentally sound on special teams, and our criminal neglect of that unit is why they weren't and why we lost this game.

At this point, minds are not going to be changed on Rodgers.  Those who want him gone will stick to their guns and those who hope he stays will stick to theirs.  But the special teams blunders are 100% real and this organization should have learned from the NFCCG in Seattle that they can cost you Superbowl trips.

You're just not going to win very often with bad days from a 30+ million dollar QB. You need your 30+ million dollar QB to string together 3 good games, or hope and pray that his bad game lines up with another team's bad day. 

[Striker]

5 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

The thought process on this actually changed about a decade ago. It used to be assumed that bad weather hurt the offenses. 

Now it's generally tending to lean the opposite. Bad footing slows down the pass rush, but it also can make cutting harder for WRs and DBs. With more zone coverages being played, you're not seeing as much hard cutting by the DBs, so it seems to balance itself out. 

Got it, that makes sense. I'm probably looking at it too much from the raw "FF PPG drops by X because of Y weather" angle, though wind and EXTREME cold make the biggest impacts.

...of course it's also hard to account for an old QB looking uncomfortable but who knows if that's weather or pressure related.

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, Striker said:

Got it, that makes sense. I'm probably looking at it too much from the raw "FF PPG drops by X because of Y weather" angle, though wind and EXTREME cold make the biggest impacts.

...of course it's also hard to account for an old QB looking uncomfortable but who knows if that's weather or pressure related.

Need your MVP to not fold under pressure. It's part of playing QB. 

[LLcheesehead12]

Just now, AlexGreen#20 said:

Is it? How many games did we lose because of ST this year? It doesn't take a drastic shift to get this unit from 32nd to 20th. 

This philosophy has been unfathomably successful for the last decade and a half. 

How bout getting that unit to number 1?  See, you are putting way too much of a low bar on this thing.  We can't settle for that, we gotta demand number 1 and to have the next Desmond Howard on this team.  Anything less is unacceptable!!!