2022 Off-Season Thread: The Dead szn...

[bigben07MVP]

4 hours ago, warfelg said:

I know he’s capable. It’s not about that. It’s about how he worked in concepts which has little to do with capability. 

I still think your grasping at straws here man.

I can reason with you on his hands still being a problem/not really improving after 3 seasons and the costly mental errors, but vouching to not re-sign him this offseason because you need to see how he “fits” in Canada’s offense is a little much. 

[bigben07MVP]

Pretty good breakdown on Minkah last season. Really shows how much he was asked to do playing behind a depleted front 7.  The additions of Flores, Jack, Ogunjobi, Alualu and hopefully a rebound season from Bush could easily return Minkah to all-pro form. 

[warfelg]

6 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

I still think your grasping at straws here man.

I can reason with you on his hands still being a problem/not really improving after 3 seasons and the costly mental errors, but vouching to not re-sign him this offseason because you need to see how he “fits” in Canada’s offense is a little much. 

Seeing how he worked in a new offense, with a new QB, and a new philosophy is only one of the reasons I wouldn’t extend him right now. You guys are the ones making a big deal of that statement. 
 

Given we have no clue what Canadas offense looks like, the only guys I’m comfortable with moving forward are Harris, Pickens, Pitckett, Freiermuth, and Austin; because naming Canada OC then using draft picks on guys that won’t work in his system would be stupid. 
 

In fact: here’s a finalist FOR THE STEELERS GM JOB saying the EXACT same thing I am -

 

[Chieferific]

I had a dream that I drafted T.J. Hockenson over Muth in a Fantasy League and Muth blew up and was a Pro Bowl player with double digit TDs.  I never dream about football.  Fantasy or real.  

[Dcash4]

@warfelgThen I was totally off on the tag number, so that's on me. Realizing I missed the "prior year" part of the top 5 salaries. I used next years numbers which really blast off from the previous. 

So I definitely soften my stance on the tag, but a lot of what I said I still holds weight -- if you get a guy to a tag, it should be because you WANT him long term, not a tactic to find out if he fits. You immediately lose leverage and risk a depreciated value. So either move forward like you WANT him, or get him off the team at his highest value. 

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

Given we have no clue what Canadas offense looks like, the only guys I’m comfortable with moving forward are Harris, Pickens, Pitckett, Freiermuth, and Austin; because naming Canada OC then using draft picks on guys that won’t work in his system would be stupid. 

There's just one giant flaw in this thought process, for Whaley then too. Diontae and Canada have been on the same team for the last two years. How can we be comfortable talking fit for guys you have never seen outside of tape but uncomfortable with someone you spent two years with? Nah, man. If Canada doesn't know how a guy would fit in his offense that he called plays for last year -- then it's not a fit. Ship him now. 

Regardless of if we ran Canada's pure offense or not last year, he spent 2 years with DJ. One year he called plays for him. This shouldn't be guess work. I said it before, but if they are question Canada's long term fit, I would get that -- not DJs. 

[Dcash4]

1 hour ago, Chieferific said:

I had a dream that I drafted T.J. Hockenson over Muth in a Fantasy League and Muth blew up and was a Pro Bowl player with double digit TDs.  I never dream about football.  Fantasy or real.  

I, too, dream about 'Muth. 

🥰

[MOSteelers56]

14 hours ago, warfelg said:

Why do we need to accept throwing assets at it? If Pickens and Austin are any good, with Claypool it could potentially be a still decent group. 

Shoot, that group could be a lot more than decent. Say what you will about Claypool, but the dude has the ability to be a top 5 WR. Pickens and Austin could be really good too.

As for Diontae. Obviously I’d love to maximize his return, but that stuff doesn’t happen too often in the NFL. If he’s willing to play for us this year without a new deal, that’s good news. If we could trade him for a haul, that’s great news too. If we let him go for nothing but a comp pick, that’s not as great of news but not the end of the world. Id love to have him long term, but it looks like the FO is making plans for a post Diontae team. I won’t be too upset one way or the other.

[AFF]

15 hours ago, warfelg said:

Why do we need to accept throwing assets at it? If Pickens and Austin are any good, with Claypool it could potentially be a still decent group. 

Odds say at least 1 will not work out…Pickens IIRC is only 21 and really hasn’t played a lot the last 2 years, about 12 games or so but while I do love the pick, odds say he doesn’t blow up year 1.

I also like the Austin pick but let’s be real about it…he was a 4th round pick and probably doesn’t play much this year.

Plus the Steelers have while hitting on a lot of mid round WRs…have also missed a lot over the years as well.

We will find out about Claypool this year…it’s make or break for him.

I also saw the correction on the franchise tag…makes it more palatable for sure.

Edited June 30, 2022 by AFF

[warfelg]

18 minutes ago, AFF said:

Odds say at least 1 will not work out…Pickens IIRC is only 21 and really hasn’t played a lot the last 2 years, about 12 games or so but while I do love the pick, odds say he doesn’t blow up year 1.

I also like the Austin pick but let’s be real about it…he was a 4th round pick and probably doesn’t play much this year.

Plus the Steelers have while hitting on a lot of mid round WRs…have also missed a lot over the years as well.

We will find out about Claypool this year…it’s make or break for him.

I also saw the correction on the franchise tag…makes it more palatable for sure.

Which is why I’m fine with a wait and see and tag DJ. It isn’t killer and give you over a year to see how they develop. 

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, Dcash4 said:

@warfelgThen I was totally off on the tag number, so that's on me. Realizing I missed the "prior year" part of the top 5 salaries. I used next years numbers which really blast off from the previous. 

So I definitely soften my stance on the tag, but a lot of what I said I still holds weight -- if you get a guy to a tag, it should be because you WANT him long term, not a tactic to find out if he fits. You immediately lose leverage and risk a depreciated value. So either move forward like you WANT him, or get him off the team at his highest value. 

There's just one giant flaw in this thought process, for Whaley then too. Diontae and Canada have been on the same team for the last two years. How can we be comfortable talking fit for guys you have never seen outside of tape but uncomfortable with someone you spent two years with? Nah, man. If Canada doesn't know how a guy would fit in his offense that he called plays for last year -- then it's not a fit. Ship him now. 

Regardless of if we ran Canada's pure offense or not last year, he spent 2 years with DJ. One year he called plays for him. This shouldn't be guess work. I said it before, but if they are question Canada's long term fit, I would get that -- not DJs. 

Thinking because they have been in same meetings means it’s a known to work is a bigger mistake. You said it yourself: we haven’t truly ran Canadas offense. Everyone is in that boat. But the guys that get a leg up are the ones that were picked knowing this was the blueprint. 
 

if you feel the job of a coach is to get something that fits the players; that’s fine. But that doesn’t mean the opposite is wrong or a flaw in logic. 

[warfelg]

I really do think Claypool is the guy getting lost in ALL of these conversations and how he could be the lynchpin of making a post-DJ offense dangerous.

We all know in his later years Ben wasn’t much of a deep seam guy.  Most of his deep passing was outside the numbers and hash marks.

 

But Pickett seems to like throwing deeper to that part of the field.  So if Claypool can work on body control, keeping his feet under him, and hand catching; putting him in the slot more can really stress the safety to stay at home.  

Freiermuth working in that mid-deep in area (10-20 yards) will pull the linebackers up (or back for unders for Harris on check downs).  

All we need is Pickens/Johnson to get coverage tilted their way.  I think Pickens might get there after a year of development, because his big body, speed, and control on the sidelines means he’s going to get over the top a lot.  DJ doesn’t really scare teams in that same way.  

This will open up Austin to be able to be an undersized outside WR who can beat CB2’s often enough.  This would be a great combo.

[Dcash4]

5 minutes ago, warfelg said:

But the guys that get a leg up are the ones that were picked knowing this was the blueprint. 

....the guys that get the leg up are the ones you have physically and mentally been directly in contact with for 2 years. Everyone else is theoretical. Even if he operates the offense completely differently, he knows what DJ brings to the table right now and he should have been considering how he can mold that into his vision of the offense. 

Im sorry man, but if Canada has not been able to think about how a person he has worked with in 2 years fits into his plan -- than he does not fit into the plan. 

This all comes down to trust. Personally, I trust that what we have seen out of DJ the past two years is a baseline, but there is more juice to squeeze. If you don't trust that....he isn't part of the future. So max the value he carries today and gather a greater asset that you can use to replace him on the roster sooner.

One year isn't going to eliminate that lack of trust. So either negotiate like you want him and fall back on the tag to continue trying or break it off. 

[MOSteelers56]

53 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I really do think Claypool is the guy getting lost in ALL of these conversations and how he could be the lynchpin of making a post-DJ offense dangerous.

We all know in his later years Ben wasn’t much of a deep seam guy.  Most of his deep passing was outside the numbers and hash marks.

 

But Pickett seems to like throwing deeper to that part of the field.  So if Claypool can work on body control, keeping his feet under him, and hand catching; putting him in the slot more can really stress the safety to stay at home.  

Freiermuth working in that mid-deep in area (10-20 yards) will pull the linebackers up (or back for unders for Harris on check downs).  

All we need is Pickens/Johnson to get coverage tilted their way.  I think Pickens might get there after a year of development, because his big body, speed, and control on the sidelines means he’s going to get over the top a lot.  DJ doesn’t really scare teams in that same way.  

This will open up Austin to be able to be an undersized outside WR who can beat CB2’s often enough.  This would be a great combo.

I agree with almost all of that, but I think DJ could really start scaring defenses with a QB that can hit him on intermediate routes. He didn’t scare defenses because everything he caught was at the LOS. His game went up a notch whenever Ben would get him on those 15 yard passes. With his ability to separate, I think if he saw more intermediate looks we’ll see a lot more house calls for him. I think our WRs are going to be nasty this year. All these debates on what to do with Diontae get in the way of that. 

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I agree with almost all of that, but I think DJ could really start scaring defenses with a QB that can hit him on intermediate routes. He didn’t scare defenses because everything he caught was at the LOS. His game went up a notch whenever Ben would get him on those 15 yard passes. With his ability to separate, I think if he saw more intermediate looks we’ll see a lot more house calls for him. I think our WRs are going to be nasty this year. All these debates on what to do with Diontae get in the way of that. 

And very fair enough but it’s more to my thought of tagging him isn’t a bad outcome right now. Let’s make sure this all works like that before committing longer term to him. And if that means you have to tag him to ensure the chance of keeping him then it’s worth it (and he’s likely worth the extension too). 

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, Dcash4 said:

Everyone is theoretical.

FTFY.