Justice League

[43M]

7 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Its all you can really say for some of these decisions. I know they want to use Dwayne to his fullest media leverage, so use the Black Adam film first, but intro Shazam in that movie as his adversary. You wouldnt even have to show Billy Batson at that point if you dont want to.

And I like Zachary Levi, hope he does well as Shazam, but it just seems like a wasted opportunity not to get Cena vs Johnson, especially with a character that wont be on the screen for part of the time. 

Cena?   

Should WWE pictures produce the film, too?

I agree with notion that they shouldnt be separate films for two relatively obscure characters to the mainstream,  but regardless of what they do, they shouldnt go anywhere remotely close to John Cena.    I mean, whats next?  Roman Reigns as Lobo?   

[devils1854]

4 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Cena?   

Should WWE pictures produce the film, too?

I agree with notion that they shouldnt be separate films for two relatively obscure characters to the mainstream,  but regardless of what they do, they shouldnt go anywhere remotely close to John Cena.    I mean, whats next?  Roman Reigns as Lobo?   

No one outside of the WWE actually cares about John Cena, and its not like its some huge fanbase that could singlehandedly cause a movie to be profitable. Hell, if that were the case, the 15 crappy Stone Cold movies would have been a hit in Hollywood.

[43M]

42 minutes ago, devils1854 said:

No one outside of the WWE actually cares about John Cena, and its not like its some huge fanbase that could singlehandedly cause a movie to be profitable. Hell, if that were the case, the 15 crappy Stone Cold movies would have been a hit in Hollywood.

Well, you could argue that a good portion of the WWE fanbase over 21 dont even like Cena.    I dont watch wrestling anymore, but I know almost every time Ive watched wrestling over the last decade, he was being booed, even though he has been the top face of the company.   He always seemed to resonate more with younger wrestling fans.   I think he has gotten more hate than he deserves and it became seemingly the hipster thing to hate him for no reason, but in general, he never seemed as widely popular as a guy like the Rock was.   He was mainly just insanely popular with younger audiences.   

Personally, I like Cena.   He is clearly a very hard worker who busted his butt to get where he is and seems like a decent guy.  I respect that.  However, he has never been even close to as naturally entertaining as The Rock, Stone Cold or most of the wrestlers of the Attitude Era.

Not trying to do a wrestling commentary here....just saying that Cena doesnt have the chops to play a lead in a movie, especially a big budget Hollywood blockbuster.   But you know that there will be a portion of the fanbase that will want Cena if only because of his physical proportions, because to them, thats the most important thing.   Same people who said Michael Keaton would suck as Batman because of his skinny stature and weak jaw, and Gal Gadot would fail as Wonder Woman because she didnt have slammin' double D's.   

[rob_shadows]

2 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Well, you could argue that a good portion of the WWE fanbase over 21 dont even like Cena.    I dont watch wrestling anymore, but I know almost every time Ive watched wrestling over the last decade, he was being booed, even though he has been the top face of the company.   He always seemed to resonate more with younger wrestling fans.   I think he has gotten more hate than he deserves and it became seemingly the hipster thing to hate him for no reason, but in general, he never seemed as widely popular as a guy like the Rock was.   He was mainly just insanely popular with younger audiences.   

Personally, I like Cena.   He is clearly a very hard worker who busted his butt to get where he is and seems like a decent guy.  I respect that.  However, he has never been even close to as naturally entertaining as The Rock, Stone Cold or most of the wrestlers of the Attitude Era.

Not trying to do a wrestling commentary here....just saying that Cena doesnt have the chops to play a lead in a movie, especially a big budget Hollywood blockbuster.   But you know that there will be a portion of the fanbase that will want Cena if only because of his physical proportions, because to them, thats the most important thing.   Same people who said Michael Keaton would suck as Batman because of his skinny stature and weak jaw, and Gal Gadot would fail as Wonder Woman because she didnt have slammin' double D's.   

Yeah it's insane how many people will throw a persons name out there just because they have the look...I remember back when Thor was announced HHH was a name people were bringing up simply because he had the look...they don't even care about the fact that he can't act.

[Deadpulse]

3 hours ago, devils1854 said:

No one outside of the WWE actually cares about John Cena, and its not like its some huge fanbase that could singlehandedly cause a movie to be profitable. Hell, if that were the case, the 15 crappy Stone Cold movies would have been a hit in Hollywood.

You are underrating how many wrestling fans there are.

[43M]

29 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

You are underrating how many wrestling fans there are.

I used to be a huge wrestling fan, but that doesnt mean Id want to see some of my favorite wrestlers portraying some of my favorite characters.

Yes, there are alot of wrestling fans....but I think a John Cena casting would lose the movie more fans than it gained.  

[StLunatic88]

9 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Cena?   

Should WWE pictures produce the film, too?

I agree with notion that they shouldnt be separate films for two relatively obscure characters to the mainstream,  but regardless of what they do, they shouldnt go anywhere remotely close to John Cena.    I mean, whats next?  Roman Reigns as Lobo?   

Now you're being ridiculous, Lobo is who Dwayne Johnson should have played. But you are also wrong if you dont think he exceeded expectations on the few comedy roles in large motion pictures he has gotten (Trainwreck, Sisters) And thats why I think he would have been great as Shazam; Limited time on screen, Comedic role. Honestly I think Zachary Levi is being wasted in this role unless they are completely changing the story/powers of Shazam.

When looking at the idea of Shazam there are some things to consider;

1. He is actually a kid grated the super powers of the gods
2. If done correctly he would only be on screen half the time
3. More of a boy scout than Superman
4. He is the absolute embodiment of camp
5. He is comically jacked (physique)

So when I look at that, it absolutely SCREAMS John Cena. He is basically already this guy in his wrestling persona. Plus with the transition back and forth from Billy Batson to Shazam, you limit his actual acting time (at most half of the time he is in Shazam form, and possibly half of that time he would be fighting).

My thoughts were that it should be one movie (not split into Shazam & Black Adam) That you could market the hell out of Dwayne Johnson, and even center the story around him. Get one of these young up and comers to play the Billy Batson half (my pick would be Finn Wolfhard - a combo of Stranger Things and IT performances) and that makes a great duo who are splitting screen time and sharing the same personality traits. I dont see alot of established adult actors who will believably play a child in an adult body. (and Im honestly worried about Levi in that sense)

[43M]

1 minute ago, StLunatic88 said:

Now you're being ridiculous

No, Im being facetious. 

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Lobo is who Dwayne Johnson should have played.

I can agree with that.  I also think Mamoa wouldve been an awesome Loki.

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But you are also wrong if you dont think he exceeded expectations on the few comedy roles in large motion pictures he has gotten (Trainwreck, Sisters)

Thats an opinion, but okay, Ill give that to you.   

But youre comparing apples to oranges.

Secondly, youre talking about comedies in which he had somewhat small supporting roles.   Thats a far fetch from top billing in a major blackbuster superhero movie with hundreds of millions of dollars in the balance.

In comedic roles, people are much more forgiving of bad acting.  Ive never seen anything Cena was in and thought he was a quality ACTOR.     Does he have some comedic chops?  Sure, I guess.   But does that mean he is a quality actor who has the ability to carry a major motion picture?   Absolutely not.

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And thats why I think he would have been great as Shazam; Limited time on screen, Comedic role.

Wait wait wait.....limited time on screen?    He is getting his own movie.     And even if you are suggesting that he be part of the Black Adam movie in a smaller role, you do realize they will likely want to branch him out and use him in other movies or even his own movie?   if this were a one off movie and a small role....sure.   Shazam is not a small role within the DCEU, though.

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Honestly I think Zachary Levi is being wasted in this role unless they are completely changing the story/powers of Shazam.

This makes no sense.   Why would they have to change the story or powers because of Levi or anyone else who is case?   Thats simply not true.

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When looking at the idea of Shazam there are some things to consider;

1. He is actually a kid grated the super powers of the gods
2. If done correctly he would only be on screen half the time
3. More of a boy scout than Superman
4. He is the absolute embodiment of camp
5. He is comically jacked (physique)

 

 

1. Okay....I know this, but not sure how this matters in regards to who plays Shazam.
2. No...its based on how YOU deem it to be "correct", which is fine, but the fact of the matter is, they might want to branch Shazam out for more than one movie.
3. Thats not true, at least at first.  In many modern iterations, Billy Batson is a troubled youth and struggles with how to use his powers at first.
4. So was Superman for a time.    He still has some campy elements, but no...there are some serious takes on him, especially in recent years.
5. Again, this is the point I was making earlier.    Comic physiques are all laughably exaggerated, and then people complain when the actors dont fit those physiques.   Should Shazam be jacked?  Of course....should the actors physique be the first thing they consider when casting?  LMAO...no way.    If some comic book fans had their way, these movies would all be cast with D list actors who cant carry a straight-to-DVD movie but are just there because they LOOK the part.   

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So when I look at that, it absolutely SCREAMS John Cena. He is basically already this guy in his wrestling persona.

So what youre saying is, he has a boyish attitude, campy and he is jacked.   Okay....Ill give that to you.

He still cant act good enough to take on a role like this.   Like I said, if it was just a one movie supporting role, fine....but thats not what this is.

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Plus with the transition back and forth from Billy Batson to Shazam, you limit his actual acting time (at most half of the time he is in Shazam form, and possibly half of that time he would be fighting).

Ill give you this one, but he would still be on screen acting a good bit.

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My thoughts were that it should be one movie (not split into Shazam & Black Adam) That you could market the hell out of Dwayne Johnson, and even center the story around him. Get one of these young up and comers to play the Billy Batson half (my pick would be Finn Wolfhard - a combo of Stranger Things and IT performances) and that makes a great duo who are splitting screen time and sharing the same personality traits. I dont see alot of established adult actors who will believably play a child in an adult body. (and Im honestly worried about Levi in that sense)

Its not hard to act like a kid in adults body.    I dont see why Levi or any other decent actor couldnt pull that off.    

And again,...I understand what you would LIKE to see....but again, I am talking about what IS going on, and thats Shazam getting his own feature movie and possibly being a part of a future Justice League movie.

If they were doing what you want....then maybe I could see Cena possibly working.

Based on how they are doing, they need a stronger actor.    Levi is a solid actor.   The only thing he doesnt have right now for the role are the muscles....and they dont need to be outrageously huge like in the comics.   Like I said, if thats a big issue, your priorities (and possibly sense of reality) are out of whack.   

[StLunatic88]

2 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Based on how they are doing, they need a stronger actor.    Levi is a solid actor.   The only thing he doesnt have right now for the role are the muscles....and they dont need to be outrageously huge like in the comics.   Like I said, if thats a big issue, your priorities (and possibly sense of reality) are out of whack.   

Its not, I never said it was. You are just assuming. Yea I pointed it out, its part of the consideration for the film depiction of Shazam, but not make or break. 

Again, I was speaking on what I would have done. Ive never pretended it was anything else. You questioned it and I was explaining my thought process, you turned it into me somehow saying Cena was the best Actor or better than Levi, just pump the breaks here.

Also, its thought processes like this that kept Dewayne Johnson in stuff like the Game Plan and Toothfairy... and ofcourse Dave Bautista hasnt been good in anything either, right... If you just put them in the "Wrestlers" box they never get out. Im going off of the performances we have seen from Cena in previous films, and on other TV stuff on top of his excellent showmanship inside the werestling world.

And to me, Shazam isnt anything without Billy Batson. I know there are different iterations of him just like every other charachter in comics, but the younger, energetic, idealistic version to me is the best version. And more importantly, its what this DC Filmverse needs to keep adding. So in my scinario, the casting of Billy Batson is the headliner, the person playing Shazam should be playing off of them, not the other way around. 

When I watch Justice League or Young Justice, I just see Cena as a great fit for that kind of comedic/childish depiction of him. Im sure Levi will do great, its a different vision of Shazam than I would have had, and I am not close to alone on this. 

[43M]

11 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Its not, I never said it was. You are just assuming. Yea I pointed it out, its part of the consideration for the film depiction of Shazam, but not make or break. 

How am I assuming when you openly admit you listed it as criteria?

And I should have clarified, I wasnt saying that in reference to just you or even necessarily you at all.  I am just saying there are alot of fans who would cast for looks before acting skills, and you know thats the truth.

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Again, I was speaking on what I would have done. Ive never pretended it was anything else. You questioned it and I was explaining my thought process, you turned it into me somehow saying Cena was the best Actor or better than Levi, just pump the breaks here.

Haha...no I didnt.    I simply argued that Cena doesnt have the acting chops to play a major leading role in a multi million dollar film.   And I even omitted that if they DID do it your way, it MIGHT work.   However, I also pointed out that YOUR way isnt the way its being done.

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Also, its thought processes like this that kept Dewayne Johnson in stuff like the Game Plan and Toothfairy... and ofcourse Dave Bautista hasnt been good in anything either, right.

Nice strawman.

I never made that argument.

Rock has always had better delivery, charisma and charm than Cena.     Lets face it, they act on a regular basis as their characters in wrestling, so you can get a gauge.   The Rock I never had much doubt could survive in Hollywood as an action star....even a leading man.   Cena's mic skills have always been a little awkward.   Yes, he can talk, but alot of it comes accross as corny and silly and alot of it has to do with line delivery.   And the movies Ive watched him in, he wasnt terrible, but there is absolutely nothing he has done that makes me believe he could ever get to the level the Rock has gotten.   

You seem to just be a Cena fan getting mad because I dont agree that your buddy has the chops to pull it off.   Its not personal.    Its just how I feel about him. 

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.. If you just put them in the "Wrestlers" box they never get out. Im going off of the performances we have seen from Cena in previous films, and on other TV stuff on top of his excellent showmanship inside the werestling world.

If I was just blindly writing him off as a wrestler, you would have a point.  

Thats not what Im doing.

Like I said, he is fine for small roles in comedies where acting skills are not very important.   Look at guys like Rob Schneider and David Spade.   Yes, they can do well in supporting comedic roles.  But are they good leads for comedies?   Not really.....each of them might have had one, but they are pretty limited.    And they certainly dont have the chops to be in anything more serious than maybe a romantic comedy.    Thats how I view John Cena.     

I mean, seriously...with hundreds of millions of dollars on the line, you would actually cast a guy who has never had anything more than a leading role in a straight to DVD movie produced by WWE and a few supporting comedy roles as a the lead in a huge superhero blockbuster?   Again, I am talking the reality of the situation.....not the way you would do it, because thats not really relevant.  

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And to me, Shazam isnt anything without Billy Batson.

I mean...yeah....thats a major part of the character.  No argument there.

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I know there are different iterations of him just like every other charachter in comics, but the younger, energetic, idealistic version to me is the best version. And more importantly, its what this DC Filmverse needs to keep adding. So in my scinario, the casting of Billy Batson is the headliner, the person playing Shazam should be playing off of them, not the other way around. 

Okay...and thats fine.

My point remains that Cena doesnt have the acting chops to do that.

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When I watch Justice League or Young Justice, I just see Cena as a great fit for that kind of comedic/childish depiction of him. Im sure Levi will do great, its a different vision of Shazam than I would have had, and I am not close to alone on this. 

  You want to talk about ME assuming, but then you keep acting like you have any idea what version of the character they are going for before a script is even finished.

I am sure you are NOT alone.   Im sure there are plenty of young John Cena fans who would agree with you.  Im sure there are many comic fans who consider appearances more important than acting ability that would agree with you as well.    And Im sure thats a good bit of people.....however, there are far far more I guarantee dont want to see Cena anywhere near the movie....including the people making it.  

[StLunatic88]

9 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

How am I assuming when you openly admit you listed it as criteria?

Alright this is going to be alot of nit-picking but thats the path you started this down. You said  "If thats a big issue , your priorities (and possibly sense of reality) are out of whack". Pretty bold statement here, and I corrected you. You are assuming that the look of the actor playing Shazam is a big issue for me, and its not. But to pretend when you are going on a search for a Comic Book character (much less a super hero who is empowered by the Gods) that the actors look inst something you arleast consider, you are the one being foolish

10 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Haha...no I didnt.    I simply argued that Cena doesnt have the acting chops to play a major leading role in a multi million dollar film.   And I even omitted that if they DID do it your way, it MIGHT work.   However, I also pointed out that YOUR way isnt the way its being done.

A) How do you know he doesnt have the Chops? Everything he has been given so far (especially when it comes to the multi million dollar films) He has nailed. And later in this list you compare him to the likes of Rob Schneider, and I would ask how do we know guys like Rob cant carry those movies? Because the were given the chance to... Why dies your opinion that he cant do it hold more weight than mine that he can? Especially when everything recent (and non WWE produced) you cant find a bad performance from him.

B) The WHOLE POINT of my post was how I would do it. Talk about someone with a straw man argument.

11 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Rock has always had better delivery, charisma and charm than Cena.     Lets face it, they act on a regular basis as their characters in wrestling, so you can get a gauge.   The Rock I never had much doubt could survive in Hollywood as an action star....even a leading man.   Cena's mic skills have always been a little awkward.   Yes, he can talk, but alot of it comes accross as corny and silly and alot of it has to do with line delivery.   And the movies Ive watched him in, he wasnt terrible, but there is absolutely nothing he has done that makes me believe he could ever get to the level the Rock has gotten.

You are now comparing Cena to the absolute best to ever do it. NO ONE has ever come close to The Rock in this area, Thats not even a debate. But Cena has been consistantly one of the best on the mic as well. And apparently you havent really watched much of Cena, because he is damn good at doing it. He comes across as corny because he is supposed to, that is literally his gimmick, and yes kids eat it up, because he is acting like a big kid with super powers (hmmm wonder why anyone would think he could play Shazam). And once again, The Rock is an absolutely TRANSCENDENT superstar, to compare anyone to him and his status in Hollywood, they would be a failure. Ill bring him up again, in comparison, Bautista is a failure if you are measuring him up against The Rock.

 

11 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

You seem to just be a Cena fan getting mad because I dont agree that your buddy has the chops to pull it off.   Its not personal.    Its just how I feel about him. 

Oh, looky here, more assumptions. I actually dont like Cena in wrestling at all. Haven't for years. I think he is bad for the product the way he is used. But that doesnt mean I cant recognize Talent. Because he has loads of that. And most people recognize that, which leads me to...

 

11 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

You want to talk about ME assuming, but then you keep acting like you have any idea what version of the character they are going for before a script is even finished.

I am sure you are NOT alone.   Im sure there are plenty of young John Cena fans who would agree with you.  Im sure there are many comic fans who consider appearances more important than acting ability that would agree with you as well.    And Im sure thats a good bit of people.....however, there are far far more I guarantee dont want to see Cena anywhere near the movie....including the people making it.  

First off, this is a forum, I was just talking about my thoughts, which at this point are just as reputable as the word vomit of ideas WB constantly spews out (remember when Black Adam was completely separate from all these films for a time. That was a thing, that has since been corrected, but that was the original plan)

But mainly, No I am not alone on my want of John Cena as Shazam. The Producers of the movie also had Cena on their list. Just about every report on this casting says Levi blew their socks off, and beat out John Cena and others who were in major contention. And that Cena himself actually met with the director. Seems pretty far along if they dont want to see him "anywhere near the movie". Heck of a guarantee there.

I hope Levi does great, and he clearly has a unique take on the character, and this now seems like a film going in a direction that absolutely NO ONE thought it was, because this announcement was a complete surprise to EVERYONE in the Film Nerd community. 

[Acgott]

 

[rob_shadows]

36 minutes ago, Acgott said:

 

So kick-***, green lantern, kingsman, and now Shazam? is he an actual comic book fan or something? Dude gets a lot of roles in comic book movies.

[43M]

13 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Alright this is going to be alot of nit-picking but thats the path you started this down. You said  "If thats a big issue , your priorities (and possibly sense of reality) are out of whack". Pretty bold statement here, and I corrected you. You are assuming that the look of the actor playing Shazam is a big issue for me, and its not.

Convenient how you just deleted the part where I clarified that I wasnt referring to just you or even you at all.    My point was that there are alot of people out there who put way too much focus on looks ...even at the cost of acting ability. 

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But to pretend when you are going on a search for a Comic Book character (much less a super hero who is empowered by the Gods) that the actors look inst something you arleast consider, you are the one being foolish

Can you argue the points I actually made?   As opposed to making strawmen and blind assumptions?  

I never once said looks dont matter at all.  Not once.    But looks dont mean much if the acting ability isnt there.

Thats where we differ.   You think Cena has the ability....I do not.   

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And later in this list you compare him to the likes of Rob Schneider, and I would ask how do we know guys like Rob cant carry those movies? Because the were given the chance to... Why dies your opinion that he cant do it hold more weight than mine that he can?

My comparison was to point out that some actors are good supporting actors but dont have the chops to carry their own movies.   

Are you seriously trying to argue that Rob Schneider could carry feature films?   I cant tell if thats what youre saying here or not, but if it is....

And when did I ever say that my opinion held more weight?  Youre the one getting triggered simply because I said I dont think that Cena has acting ability to pull it off.   I never said YOU couldnt believe it....but you seem intent on trying to change my opinion of Cena's ability to carry a major movie.

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Especially when everything recent (and non WWE produced) you cant find a bad performance from him.

You keep stating this like its a fact.   Its not.

Its an opinion....one youre entitled to, just as I am to mine.

And honestly, I never said he was "bad" in anything (again, you ignore points I made), I said that pretty much all of his acting roles are small supporting parts in comedy movies.   What part arent you getting when I say that being solid  in roles like that doesnt mean he would thrive as a lead of a blockbuster superhero movie where hundreds of millions  of dollars are on the line?    

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B) The WHOLE POINT of my post was how I would do it. Talk about someone with a straw man argument.

Im arguing reality.

You are arguing a fantasy.

And, yet again, you ignored the point I made in regard to YOUR IDEA, stating that IF IF IF IF IF they WERE doing it YOUR way....that it MIGHT MIGHT MIGHT work.   Then I made the point that THEY ARENT doing it YOUR way....and because of that, I dont think Cena has the acting chops to do it.

Thats not a strawman.....your idea is just irrelevant to how things are ACTUALLY BEING DONE.

Im done debating this with you,. especially since you omit key points I made because you cant address them or just dont want to.  You just come across like a Cena fanboy who cant handle someone not liking the idea of him playing Shazam.    If you disagree, thats fine....but Im happy knowing it will never happen.

Enjoy your Fruity Pebbles.     

[StLunatic88]

6 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Im done debating this with you,. especially since you omit key points I made because you cant address them or just dont want to.  You just come across like a Cena fanboy who cant handle someone not liking the idea of him playing Shazam.    If you disagree, thats fine....but Im happy knowing it will never happen.

Hahaha please, lay out what major points I omitted and I will gladly debate them, as long as they actually pertain to my original point (hence your entire stance that "it's not happening IRL so your entire point is invalid" is in itself a straw man argument)

Also really like how you just completely skip over the entire section where I showed you how Cena was actually a contender for this role, all the way to the director. Proving how wrong you were and I didn't just pull this out of left field or I'm some fan boy like you want to asssume. But that's fine, Never let facts get in the way of your argument