Justice League

[MacReady]

I've gone over how overseas markets aren't nearly as lucrative as a lot of you seem to think they are before.  I've proven it with cited references before, dozens of articles backing the claim, and numbers to back up my claims of studios earning pennies on the dollar in overseas markets.  I've also shown how people tend to forget about the money that MOVIE THEATERS take from sales, but none of you seem to want to acknowledge that.

Movies make the majority of their profits in ancillary markets.  In the long run, no movies lose money.  Some just take longer to recoup their money or see a profit than others.  If you want to read more on that, there's a world of Google for you. 

[Jakuvious]

1 minute ago, HorizontoZenith said:

7.1 is not good movie territory.  Nice try though.  A 7.1 is .3 better than the lowest rated Marvel movie.  .3 points higher than The Incredible Hulk.  My IMDB point still stands, but I admire your conviction in thinking you got me.  You didn't. 

7.1 is not bad movie territory, which is what you're arguing. Your argument is that Man of Steel was terrible. It was not. That's the point of posting that rating. It's higher than the first Cap, both Thors, on par with Iron Man 2 and 3, etc.

 

4 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

You really need for me to do the math for you? 

 

No, because as I said, websites more credible than you have already done it.

http://deadline.com/2017/03/batman-v-superman-box-office-profit-2016-1202049201/

 

6 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

You're insulting fans who have followed the most convoluted comic book timelines possible.  The fans wouldn't get confused, and if you think they would, you're wrong.  Alienating fans?  What's more alienating to fans, rebooting a timeline or making Lex Luther a pipsqueak and The Joker a gangland pimp with emo tattoos? 

Most of the people watching these movies are not people who have been reading those comic book storylines. Comic fans would be fine, yes. Basic movie fans would have serious issues with it.

 

7 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

It's time for you to do a little math again.  Are you ready for it?

Man of Steel released in 2013. 

The Flash is coming in 2020. 

One year difference in rebooting timelines. 

Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman 2, Aquaman and The Flash would all be in same continuity.  They would remove MoS, BvS and Suicide Squad. 

Come on man, I can't believe your reading comprehension is actually this bad, this has to be intentional. X-Men rebooted the timeline 8 years after the LAST movie in the original X-Men trilogy. Not the first. Days of Future Past was 14 years after the original X-Men movie. A 2020 Flash would be 7 years after the FIRST DCCU movie, and probably less than 1 year after the last one to come out before it.

[MacReady]

Quote

7.1 is not bad movie territory, which is what you're arguing. Your argument is that Man of Steel was terrible. It was not. That's the point of posting that rating. It's higher than the first Cap, both Thors, on par with Iron Man 2 and 3, etc.

Show me where I said Man of Steel was terrible and I'll show you a liar.  I didn't.  I merely said it wasn't good. 

Quote

 

No, because as I said, websites more credible than you have already done it.

http://deadline.com/2017/03/batman-v-superman-box-office-profit-2016-1202049201/

 

Again, nice try, but do you see where you linked that it says Domestic TV, foreign TV, rentals and residuals?  Those things don't come from the theatrical run, do they? 

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Most of the people watching these movies are not people who have been reading those comic book storylines. Comic fans would be fine, yes. Basic movie fans would have serious issues with it.

You're suggesting that people are too stupid to understand a new timeline?  Is that what you're saying?  Because you'd be wrong. 

Quote

X-Men rebooted the timeline 8 years after the LAST movie in the original X-Men trilogy.

Yeah, this one I missed.  Still, The Amazing Spider-Man is proof that people can understand and catch onto timeline changes, and that it's not a bad idea to retcon a planned universe and start it new with a new timeline.  Don't tell me it's a bad idea when Spiderman, X-Men, Nolan's Batman to Man of Steel and countless other new timelines have occurred in the superhero genre. 

[Jakuvious]

On 7/22/2017 at 4:50 PM, Kiltman said:

This way, the horrors of MoS

 

4 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

The dialogue was horrific and the pacing was out of a student film.

 

On 7/23/2017 at 11:35 AM, HorizontoZenith said:

They were bad movies.  Really bad movies.

The last quote was in reference to a comment about the movies you called "horrors." If you want to claim that these statements are you saying the movie was just okay, fine, but I don't see why anyone would believe you there.

[MacReady]

Yeah, the horrors of those movies, not calling those movies horrors.  If you're gonna sit there and act like Amy Adams last line in MoS wasn't a horrifying line, you're crazy. 

The dialogue WAS horrific, the pacing WAS out of a student film.  Still didn't say that MoS as a whole was a terrible movie.  And no, the part where I said the last one I clarified, actually, that I was refferring to PARTS of the movies, not the movies as a whole.  I've gone on record on this site dozens of times saying I loved elements of BvS, but also acknowledgin that there were HORRIBLE aspects to them.

So, like I said, never called MoS a horrible movie.  Nice try though. 

[Jakuvious]

9 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Again, nice try, but do you see where you linked that it says Domestic TV, foreign TV, rentals and residuals?  Those things don't come from the theatrical run, do they? 

Nothing was ever said about the theatrical run. My comment, which started the chain, was that they were profitable. you said they were not. you did not say they were not profitable if we omit several sources of revenue. I never said it was profitable if we purely count revenue from the theatrical run. You're moving the goalposts now that you've been proven wrong.

 

10 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

You're suggesting that people are too stupid to understand a new timeline?  Is that what you're saying?  Because you'd be wrong. 

Again, reread my original point. You're requiring fans, including casual fans, to watch Flashpoint to really know what's going on with anything in the timeline after that. That will be confusing and alienating for people who are not used to the more complicated aspects of comic book storylines. It's the same reason that CW significantly dumbed down Flashpoint.

 

11 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Yeah, this one I missed.  Still, The Amazing Spider-Man is proof that people can understand and catch onto timeline changes, and that it's not a bad idea to retcon a planned universe and start it new with a new timeline.  Don't tell me it's a bad idea when Spiderman, X-Men, Nolan's Batman to Man of Steel and countless other new timelines have occurred in the superhero genre. 

Spiderman and Batman were entirely NEW timelines. Not timeline alterations within a single universe. That's a substantial difference. It's incredibly easy to understand, okay, we have a new cast, new director, new everything, so obviously this is just a different Batman. Compared to, we have the same Flash, the same Wonder Woman, but only some of what Wonder Woman has done is still true, and a random number of other things are either completely different, slightly different, or exactly the same. It's a lot to keep up with if you are not open to that, and it requires a lot of on screen explaining of just what is different and what isn't.

[Acgott]

 

[seminoles1]

On 7/24/2017 at 10:38 AM, HorizontoZenith said:

Another piece of evidence to support a soft reboot... The CW was asked to stop using Deathstroke because he was going to have a major role in the DC movies.  Deathstroke is coming back to the CW. 

That's not a piece of evidence to support a soft reboot at all.  Deathstroke was going to be in the Batman movie when Affleck and Terrio were writing/directing.  Matt Reevese was hired and wanted to do his own story, so all that "evidence" supports is Reeves isn't going to have Deathstroke as a big part of his Batman movie.

[MacReady]

Just now, seminoles1 said:

That's not a piece of evidence to support a soft reboot at all.  Deathstroke was going to be in the Batman movie when Affleck and Terrio were writing/directing.  Matt Reevese was hired and wanted to do his own story, so all that "evidence" supports is Reeves isn't going to have Deathstroke as a big part of his Batman movie.

We'll see.  Still don't think I'm wrong about Flashpoint soft rebooting the series.  Obviously won't know one way or another until after Justice League because they're not going to want people to lose interest in it. 

Still don't think it's insignificant that Leto has been dead silent about The Joker since he voiced his displeasure. 

Still don't think it's insignificant that Joss Whedon has come to the DCEU or that Laurence Fishburne is now heading over to Marvel.  Also don't think it's a coincidence that they're calling it FlashPoint this early (The Flash's first movie), or that all of the rumors about Affleck wanting to step down as Batman are just rumors.  Where there's smoke there's fire, and there's been a whole lot of smoke pointing to a soft reboot that will start the DCEU with a continuity of: Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman 2, then The Batman (after the events of FlashPoint). 

Especially considering Justice League looks not so great. 

[skywlker32]

10 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

We'll see.  Still don't think I'm wrong about Flashpoint soft rebooting the series.  Obviously won't know one way or another until after Justice League because they're not going to want people to lose interest in it. 

Still don't think it's insignificant that Leto has been dead silent about The Joker since he voiced his displeasure. 

Still don't think it's insignificant that Joss Whedon has come to the DCEU or that Laurence Fishburne is now heading over to Marvel.  Also don't think it's a coincidence that they're calling it FlashPoint this early (The Flash's first movie), or that all of the rumors about Affleck wanting to step down as Batman are just rumors.  Where there's smoke there's fire, and there's been a whole lot of smoke pointing to a soft reboot that will start the DCEU with a continuity of: Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman 2, then The Batman (after the events of FlashPoint). 

Especially considering Justice League looks not so great. 

They can most definitely use Flashpoint as a soft reboot, but they can also have everything go back to normal by the end. It is most definitely in there as a protection in case they want to change anything about the universe. They may very well be waiting to see how things go up until Flashpoint before they make any decisions.

[seminoles1]

1 hour ago, skywlker32 said:

They can most definitely use Flashpoint as a soft reboot, but they can also have everything go back to normal by the end. It is most definitely in there as a protection in case they want to change anything about the universe. They may very well be waiting to see how things go up until Flashpoint before they make any decisions.

That's how I see it as well.  It's there just in case, but that's not the plan at the moment.

[MacReady]

22 minutes ago, skywlker32 said:

They can most definitely use Flashpoint as a soft reboot, but they can also have everything go back to normal by the end. It is most definitely in there as a protection in case they want to change anything about the universe. They may very well be waiting to see how things go up until Flashpoint before they make any decisions.

I'm personally hoping it is, and I'm not sure why so many people are against it. 

[StLunatic88]

2 hours ago, skywlker32 said:

They can most definitely use Flashpoint as a soft reboot, but they can also have everything go back to normal by the end. It is most definitely in there as a protection in case they want to change anything about the universe. They may very well be waiting to see how things go up until Flashpoint before they make any decisions.

Like I called it out from the begining. Flashpoint is the escape hatch. If things are going wrong, if an Actor is forcing their way out, they can retcon any of that with this film. If not, it can be a fun movie with easter eggs or other timelines, and maybe nothing major changes at all.

 

[StLunatic88]

1 hour ago, HorizontoZenith said:

I'm personally hoping it is, and I'm not sure why so many people are against it. 

Because we actually see that there is some really good stuff in this Cinematic Universe. If you want to say there are major points that hindered their films, yea I would agree. You can see the path that would have made MoS and BvS and (sure more work than those two need) even Suicide Squad really good movies. Just because some past stuff has been bad, doesnt mean you have to completely scrap all of the ground work already in place in order to fix them. You can, but that also just creates more shortcuts, which doesnt inspire that they have fixed any of the issues, just reset them that they could be made again. If they work through these, it makes the Universe that much deeper because you would have to completely forget as many as 5 films.

Batman, Wonder Woman, Harley Quinn, Zod and Amanda Waller have all been great representations in this Universe.

Superman, Deadshot, Alfred and arguably Lois Lane are all pretty darn good.

Sure Rick Flag,  Alexander Luthor (not the actual Lex), Enchantress, what we were given with the Joker (not as terrible as people make him), whatever Killer Croc is and the too early reveal of Doomsday were all a complete mess.

But from what we have seen so far, The Flash, Aquaman, and Comm Gordon all look to be in the Bat/WW category (atleast the good category) With Cyborg and Steppenwolff and somehow still Katana being unknowns.

I honestly enjoyed Boomerang, they made Diablio pretty compelling, Ares suffered from Marvelitus (not very memorable villain) and it was a really solid depiction of Krypton and its destruction.

 

Like I said, there is alot of good stuff to be mined from and can be corrected if given the effort. Unless it becomes absolutely necessary, Flashpoint for reboot sake seems like a shortcut that doesnt need to happen.

[MacReady]

I never disputed there wasn't good stuff in those movies and I have said dozens of times that I loved a lot about those movies.  But what you're refusing to acknowledge is that the bad outweighs the good in those movies.

Lex Luther and The Joker were utterly ruined.  I love Jared Leto and thought he was a perfect choice, but the current interpretation of The Joker is awful, and so is Lex Luther.  Those are one/two as the best, most notable villains to Superman/Batman, who are one/two the biggest draws for DC.

I think Affleck and Cavill were both great in those roles.  BUT!  Ben Affleck is a year older than Christian Bale already.  Batman Begins was made when Bale was 31.  The Dark Knight trilogy lasted 7 years.  This DCEU is not expected to last only 10 years.  They want this to last as long as or longer than Marvel's.  You're looking at 20 years worth of DCEU.  Can't you possibly see the benefit of being able to restart Batman with an actor that's in his early 30's, or do you really think that Affleck is going to continue playing Batman at 60 years old? 

Suicide Squad and BvS are not going to disappear as movies.  They're simply going to be retconned as far as what happened.

The Flash will be exactly the same.  He will be aware of everything that happened in the alternate timeline.  Wonder Woman 1/2 will not be effected at all. 

FlashPoint will be able to introduce a new Batman timeline with a new, younger actor, which would also effect The Joker, and could also effect Lex Luther and certain side characters in Superman's story.

The only things that would change would be that everybody involved in BvS and Justice League wouldn't know what happened in an alternate timeline except The Flash.

You get a new Batman, you get a new Joker, a new Lex Luther.  You don't have to ignore MAJOR events in Batman's timeline.  You lose nothing.