Jared Goff is... .good? Draft (WEEK 5)

[Millenhater]

On 11/1/2022 at 8:34 AM, Sllim Pickens said:

Side note, I wanted Aaron Curry over Matt Stafford because I was scared of drafting a QB early with the bust rate, and I am glad that didn't happen.  As much as I love Anderson, its just not a smart play to pass on a potentially great QB for a potentially great OLB/Edge guy.  The teams in and winning the Sb have great QBs usually and its very rarely a DE/Edge guy leading them there.  TJ Watt and Myles Garrett are great, but they aren't taking over games and putting the team on their back to a Super Bowl.  Yes a pass rush helps in the playoffs, but its rarely the leagues best or a top 5 pick at DE leading his team there. 

Obviously the QB is the most important player in sports I just don't know if the QBs in this draft are that much of an upgrade over what we currently have.  Also for the examples you give you can give examples of teams that had defenses/pass rusher that lead the team to the championship. (i.e. the Broncos with Von Miller, The Seahawks, the Ravens, the 49ers all come to mind as recent teams that made it or won the superbowl.)

[Sllim Pickens]

3 hours ago, Millenhater said:

Obviously the QB is the most important player in sports I just don't know if the QBs in this draft are that much of an upgrade over what we currently have.  Also for the examples you give you can give examples of teams that had defenses/pass rusher that lead the team to the championship. (i.e. the Broncos with Von Miller, The Seahawks, the Ravens, the 49ers all come to mind as recent teams that made it or won the superbowl.)

The Broncos had Peyton Manning, the Seahawks had Wilson in his prime, and the 49ers also had a great complete D but even they went out and sold everything for a QB upgrade because they cant do it with Jimmy G.  The Ravens had a great D as a whole and Flacco but even then Flacco was better at that time and was an early pick.  There are few instances when a QB is not leading his team to the Super Bowl but for the most part, having a guy like Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Watson, Rodgers, Brady, Manning etc is what has you in the hunt every year.  

Stroud IMO is the best prospect since Lawrence.  He will be legit wherever he goes.  Young scares me but his upside is so much higher than Goffs.  Anderson is great, but he also is being neutralized this year in big games.  Even today on ESPN Kiper talked about how he wouldnt be shocked if Jalen Carter and three QBs go over Anderson because he isnt a Von Miller/Myles Garrett type with size and athleticism.   

[Millenhater]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

The Broncos had Peyton Manning, the Seahawks had Wilson in his prime, and the 49ers also had a great complete D but even they went out and sold everything for a QB upgrade because they cant do it with Jimmy G.  The Ravens had a great D as a whole and Flacco but even then Flacco was better at that time and was an early pick.  There are few instances when a QB is not leading his team to the Super Bowl but for the most part, having a guy like Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Watson, Rodgers, Brady, Manning etc is what has you in the hunt every year.  

Stroud IMO is the best prospect since Lawrence.  He will be legit wherever he goes.  Young scares me but his upside is so much higher than Goffs.  Anderson is great, but he also is being neutralized this year in big games.  Even today on ESPN Kiper talked about how he wouldnt be shocked if Jalen Carter and three QBs go over Anderson because he isnt a Von Miller/Myles Garrett type with size and athleticism.   

 

To be fair I haven't really watched that much college football this year so a lot of it is from what i've seen last year but that's bold statement on Stroud.  I'm not sure what I think of him yet.  I think right now He's my number 1 QB but there's stuff about him that worries me.  The other guy I like a lot is Ward.  From the little bit I've seen of him I really like him.  

I haven't watch much of Anderson this year but last year he was unreal.

[Superduperman]

I think if you're going to take Anderson over Young or Stroud, you're betting that he's LT. If he isn't (or isn't at least close), you lose the bet.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Superduperman

[Millenhater]

On 11/4/2022 at 6:45 PM, Superduperman said:

I think if you're going to take Anderson over Young or Stroud, you're betting that he's LT. If he isn't (or isn't at least close), you lose the bet.

With if he’s like Nick Bosa good and Stroud and Young are like Goff and Wentz do you still lose that bet?

[Sllim Pickens]

18 hours ago, Millenhater said:

With if he’s like Nick Bosa good and Stroud and Young are like Goff and Wentz do you still lose that bet?

Problem is that Anderson is a 240 lb linebacker who can play edge in college.  Very few full time true pass rushers are 240 LB in the NFL so it would have to be very different role than what Bosa or Chase Young or Myles Garrett has played.  He would have to be a TJ Watt, which I would take (if he can stay healthy) but that again would take switching our defensive scheme up for the third straight year with the same coaches.  Will Anderson is a great collegiate talent, and will probably be very good in the pros, but it is a huge risk if you don't already run that type of D and if you don't have a plan on how to best utilize him.  Both he and Hutch would benefit IMO from a 3-4, but it would still be hard to expect development when guys are still learning the playbook every year.  

[Karnage84]

3 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Problem is that Anderson is a 240 lb linebacker who can play edge in college.  Very few full time true pass rushers are 240 LB in the NFL so it would have to be very different role than what Bosa or Chase Young or Myles Garrett has played.  He would have to be a TJ Watt, which I would take (if he can stay healthy) but that again would take switching our defensive scheme up for the third straight year with the same coaches.  Will Anderson is a great collegiate talent, and will probably be very good in the pros, but it is a huge risk if you don't already run that type of D and if you don't have a plan on how to best utilize him.  Both he and Hutch would benefit IMO from a 3-4, but it would still be hard to expect development when guys are still learning the playbook every year.  

If he came in at 250 lbs, would that change your perception of him? 

[Sllim Pickens]

Just now, Karnage84 said:

If he came in at 250 lbs, would that change your perception of him? 

Not unless we are running a 3-4.  I dont think thats a huge difference but its big enough you have to worry about losing explosiveness and leverage he is used to.  I hate the he can pack on 10 lbs and be the same player argument because rarely does it happen without natural growth (height or maturing) vs forced in the weight room.  I think he will be good, and if the top 2 QBs are gone I would love to have him but he has high bust potential IMO if he ends up in the wrong system or playing a position he didn't play in college like Vernon Gholston or something.  If want to use him in the same way Bama does, then sure lets draft him but again, thats changing our whole system (although it would help Hutch too).  

[Karnage84]

2 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Not unless we are running a 3-4.  I dont think thats a huge difference but its big enough you have to worry about losing explosiveness and leverage he is used to.  I hate the he can pack on 10 lbs and be the same player argument because rarely does it happen without natural growth (height or maturing) vs forced in the weight room.  I think he will be good, and if the top 2 QBs are gone I would love to have him but he has high bust potential IMO if he ends up in the wrong system or playing a position he didn't play in college like Vernon Gholston or something.  If want to use him in the same way Bama does, then sure lets draft him but again, thats changing our whole system (although it would help Hutch too).  

We seemed to have our best success running a 3-4 (or at least a variation on it). If Anderson is the BPA there and we are a team that still needs playmakers on defense, I don't see how we pass him up. We aren't a team with lots of talent that just needs to draft guys to fit specific roles. With talented players available, we should be adapting the scheme to that talent. You have to take them with a plan on how/where to use them (along with other guys, like Hutch) but we should still be going BPA (especially on defense). 

[Sllim Pickens]

2 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

We seemed to have our best success running a 3-4 (or at least a variation on it). If Anderson is the BPA there and we are a team that still needs playmakers on defense, I don't see how we pass him up. We aren't a team with lots of talent that just needs to draft guys to fit specific roles. With talented players available, we should be adapting the scheme to that talent. You have to take them with a plan on how/where to use them (along with other guys, like Hutch) but we should still be going BPA (especially on defense). 

Yes but BPA has to include your system in evaluation or at least how his skill sets fit your system or with others on the team.  Its the problem with Okudah, is he sucks in zones but AO sucks in man.  So we are stuck picking between the two and obviously Okudah's growth is more likely but it hurts others.  So yes we need talent, but also we need to best utilize all of our guys.  Maybe going to a 3-4 limits Rodrigo and McNeil and Paschal. So is it worth lessening their impact to add one guy?  Most likely yes, and those guys likely would fit well in a 3-4 but its still a change.  And just like a QB changing systems, defenders like to be in something they can grow in too.  And playbooks and disguises and whatnot evolve to make a huge playbook but not when you scrap it every year and have people playing slow because they are thinking too much.