State of the Steelers

[warfelg]

And FWIW, I think this more highlights the issue with the lack of drafting success and lack of depth in the last years of Colbert.  When you have almost no one to show for 6 years of drafting you end up at a place where you just don’t have anything there.  

To me Khan always had a 3 year window where there was going to have to be an entire overhaul.  By my count at that time we had to worry about OL (4/5 spots), DL (3/3), CB (3), WR (1), ILB (2), SS (1).  And that’s not even accounting for if Kenny were to work out.  Khan as taken care of about 1/3 of that.  He still needs by my count 2 OL, 2 DL, 2 CB, 1 WR, 1-ish ILB.

On top of that, I would take a more stout DL any day of the week than having 2 CB1’s.  I rather always be able to take away the run, make teams more one dimensional, and let our pass rush get home.  With JPJ trending in the direction he’s going is encouraging so I don’t feel the need to do the luxury to have another CB1.  I think the run at Johnson in season has skewed some people on this, but that was before we really knew how good JPJ was.

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, 3rivers said:

what about extend/restructure,  not just Heyward, but Watt and others?

Heyward makes sense only if it’s a new money deal, but not at this point.  Watt has enough years left.  Really at this point, I don’t want to see any of that happen because this is a good cap reset at this point.  Khan has been able to get everyone he has without doing any of that.

1 hour ago, 3rivers said:

Sneed should have been Khans latest steal , he missed out there.  Titans got a major win at CB with that trade.  

I just put it in a post but JPJ is good, and I think we’re over stressing the need of 2 CB1’s.  

 

1 hour ago, 3rivers said:

Sneed and then Courtland Sutton  would really help the team. Aiyuk too, but more costly overall but at the same time weakens the 49ers. Denver won't be a contender, so Sutton is strictly the player, no collateral damage of use

Sure, but you need to balance all of this stuff.  We lack so much depth elsewhere that you can’t go giving away picks to bring in players all the time.

1 hour ago, 3rivers said:

Sneed for the win again.  There is only so much a team can offer when trading for a player. If you could fill a roster with RDr trade picks like Sneed, it would be much better than the many RD1 picks over the years. A fail by Khan.

Again, it’s not a fail by Khan.  Because it’s not just the pick you lose out on, it’s having to pay that player, which impacts other groupings on the roster.  Again, Sneed is 27 almost 28.  That means you got 2-3 years left of elite production from him and 1-2 years of starter level.  Give me a pick who at 21 has the ability to give you 6-8 years of that level of production, and cost you much less over the start of it.  Especially Sneeds contract, sounds like it would break many of the rules of how we structure deals.

 

1 hour ago, 3rivers said:

but as usual, there will be some holes left on the roster, CB looks thin right now. Imagine if Porter gets hurt, he could be as valuable as TJ .  

 

Sure, but this was a bad offseason to have needs, especially when the cap made that unexpected jump.  There’s still plenty of other names out there.  Personally I’m more worried about NCB than CB2.

1 hour ago, 3rivers said:

Lots of teams missed out on an elite CB for low compensation, I  don't understand it .

It’s easy.  NFL owners don’t like guaranteeing that much money to a guy that old.

[rlon]

2 hours ago, AFF said:

That’s debatable at best.

Plus yea,…I mean putting the best QB on a team might improve their chances.

Point being, the Chiefs would not be a model organization if Mahomes didn’t provide the forgiveness to any move they make. They still will have a chance for the dance every year, so I wouldn’t pump up their FO so much. 

[Ward4HOF]

51 minutes ago, warfelg said:

2 hours ago, 3rivers said:

 

I just put it in a post but JPJ is good, and I think we’re over stressing the need of 2 CB1’s.  

I tend to agree.  Especially considering that Jackson will be 22 months removed from that Achilles; in 2022; any 'hesitation' or 'stiffness' in coming back from that last year will likely be over with.  I'm expecting a solid #2 CB year out of Jackson this season; hopefully back to 100% both physically and mentally.  Last season was his first with les than 2 INTs,  If he can bounce back to his 2020 or 2021 season production, we should be fine.  My only concern are his 'nagging' injuries from year to year, but last season, he played 16 games, so that's a good sign.  We'll see, I guess. 

[AFF]

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

If Heyward were around for a few more years on the contract he’s currently on I would be more inclined.  But he’s got that cap hit in a year we can deal with it.

And like has been said many times, cutting Heyward berated the biggest hole that there was no way to fill.  Cost wise filling him would have taken more than you saved.  Pick wise you would need to commit a premium pick at fixing the position.  It just made no sense.  In the last 3 years we constantly go from a top 7 run unit with him to bottom 5 without him.  Even our pass defense suffered without Heyward.  The one year gain of what would have come from cutting him in the cap is not worth the long term complications that came with it.

Youre hung up on this upcoming year…I’m talking for the next several years.

Long term complications of letting him go?….what are you talking about?

There is no way you’re going to convince  me that Heyward at 35 is more valuable at his cap hit for 1 year than what even Sneed(or even say Aiyuk) would be for at several years cumulatively…there is no way.

[3rivers]

33 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said:

I tend to agree.  Especially considering that Jackson will be 22 months removed from that Achilles; in 2022; any 'hesitation' or 'stiffness' in coming back from that last year will likely be over with.  I'm expecting a solid #2 CB year out of Jackson this season; hopefully back to 100% both physically and mentally.  Last season was his first with les than 2 INTs,  If he can bounce back to his 2020 or 2021 season production, we should be fine.  My only concern are his 'nagging' injuries from year to year, but last season, he played 16 games, so that's a good sign.  We'll see, I guess. 

I disagree. Your points are taken, but the achilles and resulting effects from that are a concern. If Porter gets hurt AND Jackson isn't quite as expected, then what?  I would like 2 legit elite CB's , and if one gets hurt, there should be the other to take care of WR1.   Sneed isn't old and the deal seemed fair to me, but thats too late now. 

So , nobody here wants to sign Howard now either?

[AFF]

1 hour ago, rlon said:

Point being, the Chiefs would not be a model organization if Mahomes didn’t provide the forgiveness to any move they make. They still will have a chance for the dance every year, so I wouldn’t pump up their FO so much. 

They draft very well…they’ve done a great job of using the draft as cheap talent replacement.

If you don’t think so I guess we can agree to disagree.

[3rivers]

5 minutes ago, AFF said:

Youre hung up on this upcoming year…I’m talking for the next several years.

Long term complications of letting him go?….what are you talking about?

There is no way you’re going to convince  me that Heyward at 35 is more valuable at his cap hit for 1 year than what even Sneed(or even say Aiyuk) would be for at several years cumulatively…there is no way.

Heyward is off a major injury , so no idea if he can get back to where he was.   Sneed signing elsewhere was a loss for Khan . 

Consider what they will get from 99 and 97 this season and their cap value, I see much more value with Sneed  instead of 99 anyways and similar cap for this year.  I was looking forward to our No Fly Zone secondary but not happening. 

[warfelg]

12 minutes ago, AFF said:

Youre hung up on this upcoming year…I’m talking for the next several years.

Long term complications of letting him go?….what are you talking about?

There is no way you’re going to convince  me that Heyward at 35 is more valuable at his cap hit for 1 year than what even Sneed(or even say Aiyuk) would be for at several years cumulatively…there is no way.

I’m not hung up on the one year.

Letting Heyward go would have meant that we needed picks and/or cap for yet another position, and sunk money into a position that wasn’t as necessary.  So you lose out on the 3rd, giving you less chances at finding a DL to replace Cam this year.  That means going into the season with a DL rotation of Benton, Ogunjobi, Adams, Leal, and Loudermilk.  That’s terrible.  Even adding a rookie, who then you force to have to play, and most these guys need some part developed.  So then you make yourself take Murphy or Newton early because impact early DL after that is kinda low.  Or you take one of the run stuffing specialists in Sweat or Jenkins in RD2.  Well now out of the early picks you are still missing RTotF, starting C, WR2, and still need DB depth.

I’m not trying to convince you of anything because we could have made the move for Snead or Aiyuk without doing anything with Cam that forced another move to have to happen.  For all the complaining about there still being holes that need to be filled why are you so ok with creating another one?  Makes no sense to me.

Not cutting Cam is a weird hill to die on.

Edited March 24 by warfelg

[warfelg]

8 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

Heyward is off a major injury , so no idea if he can get back to where he was.   Sneed signing elsewhere was a loss for Khan . 

Consider what they will get from 99 and 97 this season and their cap value, I see much more value with Sneed  instead of 99 anyways and similar cap for this year.  I was looking forward to our No Fly Zone secondary but not happening. 

He was himself in run stuffing after the injury, not quite the pass rusher.

[warfelg]

Funny thing is some of you are lamenting a guy we reportedly never inquired on.

[3rivers]

3 minutes ago, warfelg said:

He was himself in run stuffing after the injury, not quite the pass rusher.

age and injury can set someone back no matter who. I expect Heyward to want to return to the usual, but age and injury might play a role.   No doubt he wants to prove to people he is the player he was so that is a reason to keep him .  I was never   in the cut Heyward  crowd.

 

6 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Funny thing is some of you are lamenting a guy we reportedly never inquired on.

not sure what Khan was thinking, but to me this was a priority given the value and proven play in the NFL vs WR1.   Of course, they might have something in mind for the draft for CB 

[warfelg]

10 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

not sure what Khan was thinking, but to me this was a priority given the value and proven play in the NFL vs WR1.   Of course, they might have something in mind for the draft for CB 

JPJ was just as good against WR1’s. Making Sneed a - wait for it - luxury that’s not needed. 

[jebrick]

KC is drafting well which is what you need to do when you are paying your franchise QB.  They need to pay some others so they will let expensive players go ( Hill and Sneed).  The Steelers paid their franchise QB for 16 years.  It is very tough not to miss on drafts.

[AFF]

43 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I’m not hung up on the one year.

Letting Heyward go would have meant that we needed picks and/or cap for yet another position, and sunk money into a position that wasn’t as necessary.  So you lose out on the 3rd, giving you less chances at finding a DL to replace Cam this year.  That means going into the season with a DL rotation of Benton, Ogunjobi, Adams, Leal, and Loudermilk.  That’s terrible.  Even adding a rookie, who then you force to have to play, and most these guys need some part developed.  So then you make yourself take Murphy or Newton early because impact early DL after that is kinda low.  Or you take one of the run stuffing specialists in Sweat or Jenkins in RD2.  Well now out of the early picks you are still missing RTotF, starting C, WR2, and still need DB depth.

I’m not trying to convince you of anything because we could have made the move for Snead or Aiyuk without doing anything with Cam that forced another move to have to happen.  For all the complaining about there still being holes that need to be filled why are you so ok with creating another one?  Makes no sense to me.

Not cutting Cam is a weird hill to die on.

How many times do I have to explain this and I genuinely mean that in a non - Lebeau way….

The Steelers have holes everywhere.

I simply would rather have a YOUNGER player for a LONGER period of time using Heywards $$$$….thats it.

I think holding onto a expensive declining asset in Heyward isn’t the best thing for the Steelers over the course of the next few years…now do you understand my point?