Karnage84 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 17 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: The problem with our DB's is they excel at different things it seems. AO had a good year last year in a zone centric scheme, along with Jacobs and Parker. Okudah is trash in a zone but has played pretty well in a man scheme. Same goes for our front 5-7. We had guys like Harris and McNeil look good in a 3-4 last year and then we draft a really good OLB but switch to a 4-3 and now we get less pressure than last year. It seems we are a team of mismatching parts and because of that, we dont have a scheme that fits our players. I put that on Holmes and Glenn as they are evaluating the players and what they are good at and we need to have some direction to focus on which players to add. I thought Pleasant and Glenn would definitely help our DBs more than they have at this point. I also thought Holmes would add more (he also added Chase Lucas this year but thats a late round pick) but I can see why he didn't dump a ton of resources after having some progress last year with AO, Jacobs and Parker and getting Okudah back. But again, the scheme changed so its hard to figure out what it is Holmes should be looking for when drafting DBs. All really good points and I did forget about Lucas. They really should just stick to the 3-4 look so that we're not wholesale replacing the defense and some of the bright spots from last year can actually shine. So it does make me wonder - does Glenn want to run a 4-3 and Holmes is giving him guys that don't fit? Does Glenn want to run a 3-4 but Holmes can't evaluate these guys? Is Holmes drafting decent players but Glenn is just so stuck in his scheme that he's unwilling to put guys in the best position to be successful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 49 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: All really good points and I did forget about Lucas. They really should just stick to the 3-4 look so that we're not wholesale replacing the defense and some of the bright spots from last year can actually shine. So it does make me wonder - does Glenn want to run a 4-3 and Holmes is giving him guys that don't fit? Does Glenn want to run a 3-4 but Holmes can't evaluate these guys? Is Holmes drafting decent players but Glenn is just so stuck in his scheme that he's unwilling to put guys in the best position to be successful? Thats the thing that is confusing to me. When DC was hired he talked about adapting systems to fit the players which it seemed like we did last year and had some success with worse talent than we have this year. So I am not quite sure on why we made the change, especially after drafting Hutch who excelled as a stand up rush LB. Paschal seems like he could be a solid DE in a 3-4 as well. I get we don't have NT depth behind McNeil but if we were going to go that route, then we could have and should have added someone. I do wonder if the 3-4 is going away because of the offenses ran these days. So many 3 and 4 WR sets that its hard to have that many LB/DL on the field. And not to say you can't replace an ILB with a DB, but still not as effective as many 4-1-6 lineups teams have to run out a lot. Maybe its just personnel and we dont have it at this point but it seems odd that we would try something and abandon it only to get worse results. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 25 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: Thats the thing that is confusing to me. When DC was hired he talked about adapting systems to fit the players which it seemed like we did last year and had some success with worse talent than we have this year. So I am not quite sure on why we made the change, especially after drafting Hutch who excelled as a stand up rush LB. Paschal seems like he could be a solid DE in a 3-4 as well. I get we don't have NT depth behind McNeil but if we were going to go that route, then we could have and should have added someone. I do wonder if the 3-4 is going away because of the offenses ran these days. So many 3 and 4 WR sets that its hard to have that many LB/DL on the field. And not to say you can't replace an ILB with a DB, but still not as effective as many 4-1-6 lineups teams have to run out a lot. Maybe its just personnel and we dont have it at this point but it seems odd that we would try something and abandon it only to get worse results. LE LEO LOLB ROLB REO RE DLT DRT NT Hutchinson 1.2% 40.8% 11.0% 8.6% 32.3% 5.9% 0.0% 0.2% 0.0% Paschal 2.5% 30.5% 11.0% 4.2% 41.5% 8.5% 0.0% 1.7% 0.0% McNeill 7.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 3.8% 55.5% 30.5% 3.2% Buggs 1.3% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 1.0% 37.2% 59.8% 0.7% Harris 0.0% 33.0% 1.3% 5.2% 60.5% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% Cominsky 30.6% 9.7% 0.0% 0.0% 16.7% 8.3% 19.4% 9.7% 5.6% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Just now, Karnage84 said: LE LEO LOLB ROLB REO RE DLT DRT NT Hutchinson 1.2% 40.8% 11.0% 8.6% 32.3% 5.9% 0.0% 0.2% 0.0% Paschal 2.5% 30.5% 11.0% 4.2% 41.5% 8.5% 0.0% 1.7% 0.0% McNeill 7.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 3.8% 55.5% 30.5% 3.2% Buggs 1.3% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 1.0% 37.2% 59.8% 0.7% Harris 0.0% 33.0% 1.3% 5.2% 60.5% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% Cominsky 30.6% 9.7% 0.0% 0.0% 16.7% 8.3% 19.4% 9.7% 5.6% I went on OurLads to get the depth chart and then PFF for snap counts. These are the % of snaps played at various DL positions. I wanted to account for injuries since someone like Paschal or Cominsky adds an element that has been missing and neither guy has been available for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: I went on OurLads to get the depth chart and then PFF for snap counts. These are the % of snaps played at various DL positions. I wanted to account for injuries since someone like Paschal or Cominsky adds an element that has been missing and neither guy has been available for a while. LE LEO LOLB ROLB REO RE DLT DRT NT Will Anderson 14.8% 18.9% 34.6% 23.5% 2.4% 4.6% 0.5% 0.5% 0.2% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrRay11 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: I went on OurLads to get the depth chart and then PFF for snap counts. These are the % of snaps played at various DL positions. I wanted to account for injuries since someone like Paschal or Cominsky adds an element that has been missing and neither guy has been available for a while. We have young guys, castoffs, and injured players on defense. I expect this offseason to have a significant investment in defense both draft and FA. The secondary is atrocious, but you have a couple pieces in Okudah and Joseph you hope can continue to develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said: The problem with our DB's is they excel at different things it seems. AO had a good year last year in a zone centric scheme, along with Jacobs and Parker. Okudah is trash in a zone but has played pretty well in a man scheme. Same goes for our front 5-7. We had guys like Harris and McNeil look good in a 3-4 last year and then we draft a really good OLB but switch to a 4-3 and now we get less pressure than last year. It seems we are a team of mismatching parts and because of that, we dont have a scheme that fits our players. I put that on Holmes and Glenn as they are evaluating the players and what they are good at and we need to have some direction to focus on which players to add. I thought Pleasant and Glenn would definitely help our DBs more than they have at this point. I also thought Holmes would add more (he also added Chase Lucas this year but thats a late round pick) but I can see why he didn't dump a ton of resources after having some progress last year with AO, Jacobs and Parker and getting Okudah back. But again, the scheme changed so its hard to figure out what it is Holmes should be looking for when drafting DBs. This is a good point, and I completely agree. Honestly, I put that on the coaches. I feel like the good coaches are able to take talent and use it effectively. Holmes is adding tons of talent, but the coaches have struggled to apply it. I didn't expect this defense to be great, but I never thought they'd be bottom of the league. No way. Should AO be moved to more of a zone FS role while we stick to man coverage with the CBs? I feel like Hutchinson has performed better as a 3-4 OLB, but I'm not exactly sure why that is. Either way, I feel like there's talent on this defense. I'm shocked that they've struggled as much as they have. (Edit: most of what I said here was covered in the posts above. That's what I get for replying before reading the entire thread.) Edited October 31, 2022 by TL-TwoWinsAway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 27 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: LE LEO LOLB ROLB REO RE DLT DRT NT Hutchinson 1.2% 40.8% 11.0% 8.6% 32.3% 5.9% 0.0% 0.2% 0.0% Paschal 2.5% 30.5% 11.0% 4.2% 41.5% 8.5% 0.0% 1.7% 0.0% McNeill 7.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 3.8% 55.5% 30.5% 3.2% Buggs 1.3% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 1.0% 37.2% 59.8% 0.7% Harris 0.0% 33.0% 1.3% 5.2% 60.5% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% Cominsky 30.6% 9.7% 0.0% 0.0% 16.7% 8.3% 19.4% 9.7% 5.6% Does PFF grade by time spent at a position? I know Hutch was a late 1st/early 2nd round prospect at the beginning of his senior season and then they had him stand up as a rush LB and he moved to top 3 prospect. Even if we have him playing DE, why don't we just have him stand up as he seems better and getting to the right spot from a standing position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 6 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: Does PFF grade by time spent at a position? I know Hutch was a late 1st/early 2nd round prospect at the beginning of his senior season and then they had him stand up as a rush LB and he moved to top 3 prospect. Even if we have him playing DE, why don't we just have him stand up as he seems better and getting to the right spot from a standing position. They will show the position they were at most per game and the grade. So you could use that as the tool. Maybe with the PFF Elite or whatever the next package is I could get that kind of information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: Does PFF grade by time spent at a position? I know Hutch was a late 1st/early 2nd round prospect at the beginning of his senior season and then they had him stand up as a rush LB and he moved to top 3 prospect. Even if we have him playing DE, why don't we just have him stand up as he seems better and getting to the right spot from a standing position. Week 1 - DRE - 56.3 Week 2 - DRE - 60.8 Week 3 - DLE - 52.0 Week 4 - DLE - 64.3 Week 5 - DRE - 80.1 Week 7 - DRE - 78.1 Week 8 - DRE - 57.3 So they're listing [Hutch] at DRE but 53% of his snaps are on the left side. Paschal has been listed at DRE and ROLB. 54% of his snaps are on the right side but only 4% are at ROLB (42% at REO). Edited October 31, 2022 by Karnage84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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