Random NFL Tidbits

[RaidersAreOne]

 

[General Tso]

I don't know where else to put this, but it needs to be called out

 

Billy Spikes getting roasted on Twitter

[Steelersfan43]

 

[Ray Reed]

It’s visually jarring how far ahead of everyone Tucker is on this graph

[RaidersAreOne]

 

[RaidersAreOne]

On 7/17/2023 at 9:54 PM, Ray Reed said:

It’s visually jarring how far ahead of everyone Tucker is on this graph

Surprised Carlson isn't higher. He has been absolutely sensational. 

[Ray Reed]

10 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Surprised Carlson isn't higher. He has been absolutely sensational. 

Since the chart is distance and wind-adjusted accuracy maybe playing in the dome with no wind dropped him there a bit. He’s great though he’s always my fantasy kicker haha

[Danger]

Starting to give more thought to the 2020 QB Class.

Burrow - Top 3 QB
Hurts - Top 5/6 QB
Herbert - Top 5/6 QB
Tua - Top 10, maybe better, assuming he can stay healthy.

IF Jordan Love can be a guy who'll be there for at least 5-6 more years. Can we consider it a historic class? Last one that really seems this prominent I can think of off the top of my head would've been 2004.

[RaidersAreOne]

 

[HoboRocket]

On 7/26/2023 at 12:43 PM, Danger said:

Starting to give more thought to the 2020 QB Class.

Burrow - Top 3 QB
Hurts - Top 5/6 QB
Herbert - Top 5/6 QB
Tua - Top 10, maybe better, assuming he can stay healthy.

IF Jordan Love can be a guy who'll be there for at least 5-6 more years. Can we consider it a historic class? Last one that really seems this prominent I can think of off the top of my head would've been 2004.

2018 had Allen and Jackson. Darnold has underwhelmed but Mayfield finally got the Browns to the playoffs and had a Rookie of the Year season. Not his fault his franchise was a disaster. Think he could still be a legitimately good QB.

Still, 2020 probably has it beat.

 

What about 2012?

Andrew Luck lived up to the hype as a game-changing player at the QB position. Injuries took him out right as the Colts' second window under him opened. Top 5 QB when he was healthy. 

RG3 had a HOT start before injuries took him out. Just not a consistent enough player and SO MANY injuries.

Russell Wilson was a franchise QB for the Seahawks, a borderline Hall of Famer, and Super Bowl Champion. If he turns it around in Denver, he could make it to the Hall. Top 3 QB during much of the 2010s and changed the game. 9 Pro Bowls.

Kirk Cousins was one of the most coveted QBs in FA ever. His performance in Washington's offense in 2015-16 made teams give Sean McVay a hard look at becoming the youngest HC ever. Since joining the Vikings, he's averaged over 30 TDs, 10 INTs, and nearly 4200 passing yards a season at an efficient 68% completion percentage and 7.6 yards per attempt. Borderline franchise guy.

Ryan Tannehill has stuck around for 11 seasons as a starter with flashes of top-5 play, but has mostly hung around that 10-15 spot. He's nearing the end.

Nick Foles never consistently had it together, but he had a few magical seasons with a ring and Super Bowl MVP to boot. Outdueled Brady in a thriller.

Case Keenum was a career back-up who got a few shots to be the guy. He's most famous for that 2017 season for the Vikings where he subbed in for an injured Sam Bradford and threw 22 TDs to 7 INTs in just 14 starts. Got a big contract from the Broncos, underwhelmed. 

Heck, even Brock Osweiler was a huge part of the Broncos' last Super Bowl run, prompting the Texans to sell the farm for him. And then he pooped the bed.

[Danger]

50 minutes ago, HoboRocket said:

2018 had Allen and Jackson. Darnold has underwhelmed but Mayfield finally got the Browns to the playoffs and had a Rookie of the Year season. Not his fault his franchise was a disaster. Think he could still be a legitimately good QB.

Still, 2020 probably has it beat.

 

What about 2012?

Andrew Luck lived up to the hype as a game-changing player at the QB position. Injuries took him out right as the Colts' second window under him opened. Top 5 QB when he was healthy. 

RG3 had a HOT start before injuries took him out. Just not a consistent enough player and SO MANY injuries.

Russell Wilson was a franchise QB for the Seahawks, a borderline Hall of Famer, and Super Bowl Champion. If he turns it around in Denver, he could make it to the Hall. Top 3 QB during much of the 2010s and changed the game. 9 Pro Bowls.

Kirk Cousins was one of the most coveted QBs in FA ever. His performance in Washington's offense in 2015-16 made teams give Sean McVay a hard look at becoming the youngest HC ever. Since joining the Vikings, he's averaged over 30 TDs, 10 INTs, and nearly 4200 passing yards a season at an efficient 68% completion percentage and 7.6 yards per attempt. Borderline franchise guy.

Ryan Tannehill has stuck around for 11 seasons as a starter with flashes of top-5 play, but has mostly hung around that 10-15 spot. He's nearing the end.

Nick Foles never consistently had it together, but he had a few magical seasons with a ring and Super Bowl MVP to boot. Outdueled Brady in a thriller.

Case Keenum was a career back-up who got a few shots to be the guy. He's most famous for that 2017 season for the Vikings where he subbed in for an injured Sam Bradford and threw 22 TDs to 7 INTs in just 14 starts. Got a big contract from the Broncos, underwhelmed. 

Heck, even Brock Osweiler was a huge part of the Broncos' last Super Bowl run, prompting the Texans to sell the farm for him. And then he pooped the bed.

If RG3 had panned out. I think it would've tipped the scales in favor of 2012. But 2020 seems just so high up there if you ask me.

[HoboRocket]

3 hours ago, Danger said:

If RG3 had panned out. I think it would've tipped the scales in favor of 2012. But 2020 seems just so high up there if you ask me.

Yeah 2020 has the edge for elite talent right now for sure, while '12 has more depth. However, three years in, '12 had an offensive Rookie of the Year/Pro Bowler in RG3, Super Bowl Champion in Wilson, and young Face of the NFL in Luck with a young, promising starter in Tannehill. They all looked like the next generation of NFL stars. 

[HoboRocket]

On 11/4/2019 at 1:52 PM, HoboRocket said:

Hobo's Jalen Hurts Evaluation, 11/4/19:

 

NOT a limited passer from the tools and tape that I'm watching.

Now, I know it's hard to evaluate a QB in such a wide-open offense, as I previously stated on my QB overview in the 2020 QB Prospects thread, and, as you said, the stats don't matter; only the tools do. That's why we saw a guy like Wyoming's Josh Allen taken number seven overall. However, we DO see some tools with Hurts. It's not like they're not there. His arm looks just as big as Baker's, we just don't have years and years of film on Hurts' performance in Oklahoma's offense like we do with Baker, where we were able to have a somewhat decent sample size of tight-window throws. There's a much smaller number with Hurts, given that, just like Baker, this is a wide open offense, and with Hurts we have a little more than half a season's worth of film, and with Mayfield, we had a truckload of game film. This is a wide open offense, so the more we can see, the better.

A few plays that I've seen as a sample: 3rd &17 against Texas Tech, found Charleston Rambo for a huge and really pretty touch pass about 40 yards downfield, about 50 air yards between two defenders. Clean release, good torque through the throw, really good placement fitting the ball into a small window over a long distance. High RPMs on the throw, two, which is like  for QB evaluators. Actually, most of his tight-window throws have been to Rambo. This is something interesting to note, but I don't know if it's of any significance. Maybe he just feels more comfortable throwing Rambo into contact than he does with Lamb because Rambo is a more physical runner. 

In the first quarter against Houston, on 1st & 10 in the red zone, when Houston's safeties had the Oklahoma receivers locked up in the zone, Hurts scrambled to the right to avoid the rush and found his runningback in the flat, who took the ball into the end zone. Not a big play as far as arm-talent goes, but he made a half-field read, avoided the rush, and found his outlet.

Later on against Houston, in the 2nd quarter on 3rd & 7, Hurts stepped up in the pocket to avoid interior pressure from a disengaged defensive tackle (who actually split the gap and came off unaccounted for between Oklahoma #52 and #56, bad play by 56, Creed Humphrey), stepped up and lofted in a perfect pass to a wide-open CeeDee Lamb for a touchdown. The ball traveled 43 yards in the air, which isn't exactly a cannon shot, but Hurts made it look extremely easy and hit Lamb fully in-stride. Lamb didn't need to adjust to the pass. Once again, we see good pocket presence, elusiveness to escape the rush, at least average NFL starter arm strength, and really nice accuracy despite a breakdown in pass protection.

3rd quarter against Houston, Hurts found Rambo for an easy slant between two defenders, which Rambo took to the house. It wasn't a huge window, and while it was a short throw, he put it into Rambo's body to prevent the zone linebacker from being able to make a play on it.

1st & goal against South Dakota in the 1st quarter, Hurts threaded the needle on a tight window throw to CeeDee Lamb for the touchdown. South Dakota had good coverage on the play, with all of the receivers locked up tight, including Lamb. Hurts led Lamb away from the corner with the pass, which he zipped just out of the linebacker's reach through the window.

On 2nd & 11 against UCLA in the 1st quarter, Hurts red the whole field and scrambled to the right to make an off-platform throw to a wide-open CeeDee Lamb. Lamb did need to adjust to this one, as he was well-downfield when Hurts released the ball, but he was wide open, so it ultimately didn't affect the result, which was a touchdown. 

On 2nd & 10 against UCLA in the 2nd quarter, Hurts got pressure and all the receivers were locked up. He worked his way back through his progression and found Rambo, who had finished his route and then just started running back across the field away from coverage. Hurts placed the ball over the outstretched arms of a defensive lineman that had won against both #59 and #81 on a double-team. He threw it back across the field past multiple defenders to hit Rambo in stride. Rambo took it to the house. Hurts' pocket broke down, but he stepped around the rush, and then threw the football with pressure on his face. It was a really nice throw and showed good arm strength, as well, to beat defenders across the far side of the field and accuracy to hit Rambo in stride without need for adjustment.

Those are just a few of the passing plays that I've noticed. While Oklahoma generally schemes guys wide open, you can still evaluate Hurts' tools at least somewhat adequately, and what I've found are that hist tools aren't lacking.

As a runner, he's fast, but not as fast as Kyler Murray or Lamar Jackson. However, Hurts is still a very elusive runner with the speed to beat linebackers in a footrace and the ability to juke out tacklers. He also knows when and how to use his momentum as a physical runner, primarily on plays where he's not at risk for getting hurt. As a runner, he's not afraid of contact, but generally won't place himself in situations where he's at major risk of injury, aside from short-yardage, but I think that's Lincoln Riley's playcalling. We all know that Hurts can run, though, as he ran all over quality SEC defenses while at Alabama, and I originally thought that he would be a running back for the NFL. 

We saw growth in Hurts' mental ability while at Alabama, and it's nice to see that growth continue at Oklahoma. While it still isn't perfect, Hurts's field of vision looks to have improved, as well as his ability to work through progressions. He consistently made half-field and perimeter reads while at Alabama, and improved a lot in that regard in 2017 and looked really good in limited play in 2018. This year, he still is rarely asked to make a full-field read in the Sooners' system, but he has shown the ability post-snap to work through his progressions during chaos and find his outlet man, or to quickly work his way across the field and then go back to find an open receiver. He also has shown the ability to work through chaos in the pocket, and has shown really good pocket presence to avoid the rush and manipulate it to give his blockers leverage. I think this single trait is what I'm most surprised about while evaluating Hurts. However, he also can occasionally bail from a mostly clean pocket too early, leading to leverage for defenders to disengage or holds from the offensive linemen. However, the frequency of this type of thing happening has gone down significantly in comparison to his time at Alabama.

As far as arm talent goes, I think that's the easiest to evaluate. It's good. I haven't seen him attempt any Mahomes-type arm strength throws, but I have seen him throw it far enough with enough velocity that I don't have any concerns about him being an Andy Dalton on the next level. His arm strength in general looks slightly above a DeShaun Watson or Sam Darnold. It might be better, but the ball is usually out of his hand by the time someone would be far enough downfield to see if he can make Mahomes-type throws. He can throw pretty consistently off-platform, and he is obviously a weapon on bootlegs or while scrambling.  He also has really good ability to set his feet in a clean pocket and use torque to help propel the ball, even after scrambling, which is nice because a lot of mobile QBs don't do that. 

In general, after reviewing Hurts' tape some more, and evaluating his tools, I would say yes, he is worthy of a first-round pick.

Not sure if he can reach higher than top 5ish due to the wealth of talent at the position, but I think the needle is still pointing up with Hurts.

 

On 7/26/2023 at 12:43 PM, Danger said:

Hurts - Top 5/6 QB
 

 

[Danger]

1 hour ago, HoboRocket said:

Not sure if he can reach higher than top 5ish due to the wealth of talent at the position, but I think the needle is still pointing up with Hurts.

 

 

I'm just going off the consensus ratings from last season. You'd be hard pressed to find many people who have him out of the top 6. 

Does he STAY there? There's a good chance he falls back a bit this year, but I wouldn't say it's a certainty by any means.

[Steelersfan43]