Doc Draper Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Shaking my head at this discussion. Norman is an elite player at his position. And he brings great leadership to the team. Pay him. If you want to save money get rid of guys who don’t play like Reed and stop paying guys eligible for social security to play safety. And here’s another thing- sign your quarterback to a long term contract to spread and reduce the annual cap hit so you can afford other players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, Doc Draper said: Shaking my head at this discussion. Norman is an elite player at his position. And he brings great leadership to the team. Pay him. If you want to save money get rid of guys who don’t play like Reed and stop paying guys eligible for social security to play safety. And here’s another thing- sign your quarterback to a long term contract to spread and reduce the annual cap hit so you can afford other players Fair point but Reed & Hall combined cost 12m. Norman cost 8 million more, and he did get hurt as well. My other point was they didn’t sign Cousins when they should of, instead they gave the long term deal to another teams corner which is so Redskins! Again, what I’m struggling with is that our other corners are a lot younger, home grown really breaking out and in Breeland’s case we could re-sign him for a lot less than $15 to 20 million a year. Yes, he’s a downgrade but it’s not a huge downgrade. If you have 10-12 million more to work with by cutting Norman you can sign a speedy wr to compliment Doctson, make your interior OL better, your NT position better and re-sign Brown and still re-sign Cousins long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Draper Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Hmmmmmm you’re making really good points Turtle. I’d like to keep all our CB’s but Moreau will probably also be pushing for a starting role soon. Id be happy with Norman, Moreau, Fuller as our starting three with Dunny our number 4. We desperately need a free safety to go with swearinger and the head case in Cali was supposed to be it but flaked out. The CB is our strength on defense and swearinger upgraded one safety position. Maybe we xtend Norman to get his cap hit down? Everything depends on what we do a QB. If Kirk goes then we have to go for a full rebuild again and any guy over 29 is in deep jeopardy. We have two young guys on DL, Kerrigan getting older and slower, etc.. so we need a plan to either try to win now ( next 3 years) with Kirk or tear down and start the “ process” philly has down so well in the nba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 22 minutes ago, Doc Draper said: Hmmmmmm you’re making really good points Turtle. I’d like to keep all our CB’s but Moreau will probably also be pushing for a starting role soon. Id be happy with Norman, Moreau, Fuller as our starting three with Dunny our number 4. We desperately need a free safety to go with swearinger and the head case in Cali was supposed to be it but flaked out. The CB is our strength on defense and swearinger upgraded one safety position. Maybe we xtend Norman to get his cap hit down? Everything depends on what we do a QB. If Kirk goes then we have to go for a full rebuild again and any guy over 29 is in deep jeopardy. We have two young guys on DL, Kerrigan getting older and slower, etc.. so we need a plan to either try to win now ( next 3 years) with Kirk or tear down and start the “ process” philly has down so well in the nba Yeah, don’t get me wrong, I love Norman although I do wish he’d catch some int opportunities he’s had - of course Breeland has the same problem - but Norman costs $20 million this year and will cost more than Breeland will on a long term deal and Bree is 4 years younger. Cousins + Norman is Costing us $43 million in cap space this year. And it’s going to stay around that if Norman stays and Cousins stays. I think Cousins, an above average Qb and better some weeks is more important than Norman so that’s just where I’m coming from. Too much $ tied up in 2 guys imo and I’d rather keep Cousins. I think we’ve found our future FS with Nicholson but obviously that is still yet to be determined but it appears that way. Swearinger is best at splitting the field or at SS while Nicholson has great range at FS. Still it’s yet to be determined if Nicholson is the long term answer. He should get the shot though for the next few years before we go replacing him there. As for Kerrigan, yes he’s lost a step the last few years but he still delivers. He has 9 sacks with many other qb pressure and hits with an int returned for a TD through 11 games. It’s not time to move on from Kerrigan yet. I hope we can keep Galette next year on an affordable deal because he brings a burst against great LTs every week that the rest of our OLBs lack. We may lose him, that remains a mystery. It depends on what his market is like. Anderson will get more and more reps and his time will come, but I don’t think his time to Replace Kerrigan is now or next year. As for what Philly did, they had a team willing to trade back - the stupid browns - as did the Rams who traded with the Titans to get up to #1 to get Goff. I don’t think we’ll have such luck and we’ve been burned by trading up for RG3, I don’t see our front office doing it again so soon and maybe never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleSkin Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 I believe that's going to be the best way to add some cap space and keep their secondary stable is by extending Norman. A lot of times a player will take a low salary in the 1st year with a signing bonus provided the salary is fully guaranteed. He has no more guaranteed salary over the next 3 years of his current contract so something else to play with on an extension. Just a demo of an extension - $55M/5yr's includes $20M signing bonus and 1st year fully guaranteed salary of $4m. Cap hit in the 1st year drops to $8m from $17m. Josh pockets $24m for the 1st year so a raise for him. Play around with numbers however you like - just showing how an extension helps. Still get your $8m savings that you'd get with his release plus you get to keep Norman and don't eat $9m in dead money which I don't see Washington anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 minute ago, SeattleSkin said: I believe that's going to be the best way to add some cap space and keep their secondary stable is by extending Norman. A lot of times a player will take a low salary in the 1st year with a signing bonus provided the salary is fully guaranteed. He has no more guaranteed salary over the next 3 years of his current contract so something else to play with on an extension. Just a demo of an extension - $55M/5yr's includes $20M signing bonus and 1st year fully guaranteed salary of $4m. Cap hit in the 1st year drops to $8m from $17m. Josh pockets $24m for the 1st year so a raise for him. Play around with numbers however you like - just showing how an extension helps. Still get your $8m savings that you'd get with his release plus you get to keep Norman and don't eat $9m in dead money which I don't see Washington anyway. Should we restructure a 30 year old player though? That’s Vinny Cerrato type capology and I don’t think Allen or Schaffer will do that and I don’t think they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleSkin Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Depends - like this contract nothing guaranteed in his next 3 years. The only thing Washington would be paying off now (dead $) if Norman was gone is the $9m left from the signing bonus. 5 year contract with a 2 or 3 year out with minimal damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 2 hours ago, turtle28 said: True. I guess it just gets back to my thought that no player is worth what he’s getting paid unless it’s a QB. Norman is certainly a great player but it still bothers me a bit that a FA corner from another team got the long term big deal after the 2015 season and our franchise qb didn’t. Frankly, that’s a joke. Well there’s one guy in the organization in charge of contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 15 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Should we restructure a 30 year old player though? That’s Vinny Cerrato type capology and I don’t think Allen or Schaffer will do that and I don’t think they should. Extending isn’t the same as restructuring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleSkin Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 3 years left on his current contract so a 5 year deal is adding 2 years and new money for an extension. I really didn't make that too clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 On 11/25/2017 at 11:39 AM, turtle28 said: Fair point but Reed & Hall combined cost 12m. Norman cost 8 million more, and he did get hurt as well. My other point was they didn’t sign Cousins when they should of, instead they gave the long term deal to another teams corner which is so Redskins! Again, what I’m struggling with is that our other corners are a lot younger, home grown really breaking out and in Breeland’s case we could re-sign him for a lot less than $15 to 20 million a year. Yes, he’s a downgrade but it’s not a huge downgrade. If you have 10-12 million more to work with by cutting Norman you can sign a speedy wr to compliment Doctson, make your interior OL better, your NT position better and re-sign Brown and still re-sign Cousins long term. We saw what happened to Breeland when he was asked to cover the other teams best receiver. He's a massive downgrade from Norman. I'd say Fuller is probably already better than Breeland and the team realizes it. Between Norman, Fuller, Dunbar and Moreau you don't need to pay Breeland. Let him walk and spend the money elsewhere. Pay Ioannidis and Jamison Crowder instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 18 minutes ago, lavar703 said: We saw what happened to Breeland when he was asked to cover the other teams best receiver. He's a massive downgrade from Norman. I'd say Fuller is probably already better than Breeland and the team realizes it. Between Norman, Fuller, Dunbar and Moreau you don't need to pay Breeland. Let him walk and spend the money elsewhere. Pay Ioannidis and Jamison Crowder instead. So, Breeland struggled against Antonio Brown and Dez Bryant in 2016 and who else again? He did struggle early in the year, then, he hurt both ankles last year and was better when he came back healthy. That was also after we signed Norman though and had Norman on #2s, teams definitely weren’t going to target Norman when he’s covering number 2s. So, Breeland was getting almost all the targets and honestly he did have an int vs the Steelers and barely, just barely missed the int on Brown & Ben when Brown scored that Long TD. He certainly was in position, so that wasn’t the issue, just the best wr in the Nfl made a play where he snatched the ball away from him. Another point is our safety play was atrocious last year, our corners were basically on an island every single snap. Lastly, the coaching/db Meeting room was known to be a hot mess and yes Breeland was a reason why. I think we need to base Breeland off his whole body of work, not just remember a few bad games in 2016. More often than not he’s been solid or even good to great since he was drafted. He has covered #1s and 1a’s like Cooper well this year. He’s 25, just going to be 26 in January and will get better. Norman on the other hand is going to be 30 December 15th, he’ll be good for a few more years but I’d have to believe as he creeps closer to 35 towards the end of his career will be near. If we re-sign Breeland, he’ll be entering his prime as Norman is exiting his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mar29020 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 norman is worth the money he has been elite on our sub par defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 My opinion is Breeland isn't worth the money. If he's asked to take on the other teams best receiver he usually gets torched. He's going to get paid a lot of money and it won't be by the redskins. Fuller can replace him easily and Moreau or Dunbar will take over nickel. There is absolutely no reason to pay Breeland big money. Use it for something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Draper Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Breeland may or may not get big money. He’s clearly a number 2 cornerback. Our DB coach deserves a huge amount of credit for the job he has done. Time to upgrade our WR and RB coaches next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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