Dave Canales- New OC

[ravishingone]

1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said:

Heard we will be kicking the tires on Rashaad Penny as well due to the connection. 

Makes sense.  First time OC surround himself with players he knows in his first year.  I do believe they draft a QB also.  No idea what round.

[kgarrett12486]

Bucs senior advisor Bruce Arians told the Rich Eisen Show he thinks Tampa Bay is "in good hands" with Kyle Trask.

"He's got all the size, he's got the arm, he's got the stature," Arians added. The former Bucs head coach stopped short of saying that Trask would be the starter, but a report out today from ESPN's Jeff Darlington noted that Trask was "likely to be that guy under center," and this seems to be more confirmation of that idea. The Bucs appear to be fighting so much dead cap space this year that they are preparing to go this route barring some sort of alternative they don't foresee the market handing out.

[BucsDraftGeek47]

3 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

Bucs senior advisor Bruce Arians told the Rich Eisen Show he thinks Tampa Bay is "in good hands" with Kyle Trask.

"He's got all the size, he's got the arm, he's got the stature," Arians added. The former Bucs head coach stopped short of saying that Trask would be the starter, but a report out today from ESPN's Jeff Darlington noted that Trask was "likely to be that guy under center," and this seems to be more confirmation of that idea. The Bucs appear to be fighting so much dead cap space this year that they are preparing to go this route barring some sort of alternative they don't foresee the market handing out.

imo, good

i really dont feel like paying a bunch for this gross crop of FA QBs

but at the same time, is BA still an "advisor" for us? or should we just stop caring about anything coming out of his mouth anymore

 

[eggybucsfan31]

22 hours ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

or should we just stop caring about anything coming out of his mouth anymore

 

He also said that Leftwich will still be an NFL head coach sometime soon, so probably. 

[BucsDraftGeek47]

7 minutes ago, eggybucsfan31 said:

He also said that Leftwich will still be an NFL head coach sometime soon, so probably. 

Yea i saw that

I guess he's really invested in Leftwich,  which honestly really blows my mind

I appreciate everything BA brought for us when he was our HC but saying things like that just makes me wonder if he's starting to lose it upstairs  with old age

[RedandPewterReturns]

On 2/24/2023 at 5:09 PM, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

Yea i saw that

I guess he's really invested in Leftwich,  which honestly really blows my mind

I appreciate everything BA brought for us when he was our HC but saying things like that just makes me wonder if he's starting to lose it upstairs  with old age

It would be interesting to see how Leftwich fairs in his next coaching role. Too many variables going on in Tampa last year to make me think it was all his fault. Yeah playcalling was an issue but times where the opportunties were there - execution then was an issue. 

I'm still not entirely a believer in Bowles. Sure he's painting it out from PR reports that Byron lacked the ability to change to a modern offense, but that could just be words. Time will tell. 

[RedandPewterReturns]

What I like about the Canales hire is he's bringing a little bit of a McVay concept and the old school phyiscal run game from the Bevell years with Marshawn. It's a fresh mind from a guy who's been with Caroll for 9-10 years now? At USC and Seattle. 

Bringing in a more QB friendly and easier offense to learn will do wonders. Simplifying the offense doesn't mean you're giving your opponents an edge to guess what you're doing. 

On to Trash (trask?) - I think the questions remain only bc he was a 2nd round pick. I hate to say it - but this guy looked horrible in the camp practices I attended when given 1st team reps with Gabbert. I get the "lets see what we got in him" but the kid hasn't earned it. 

Honestly - if Chicago is serious about potentially moving Justin Fields - I'd throw the 19th pick and Donavon Smith, Shaq Barret along with a 3rd next year. Folks forget he was a pass first QB at Ohio State. The state of the Bears last year was atrocious at every level. 

[kgarrett12486]

On 2/26/2023 at 10:03 AM, RedandPewterReturns said:

What I like about the Canales hire is he's bringing a little bit of a McVay concept and the old school phyiscal run game from the Bevell years with Marshawn. It's a fresh mind from a guy who's been with Caroll for 9-10 years now? At USC and Seattle. 

Bringing in a more QB friendly and easier offense to learn will do wonders. Simplifying the offense doesn't mean you're giving your opponents an edge to guess what you're doing. 

On to Trash (trask?) - I think the questions remain only bc he was a 2nd round pick. I hate to say it - but this guy looked horrible in the camp practices I attended when given 1st team reps with Gabbert. I get the "lets see what we got in him" but the kid hasn't earned it. 

Honestly - if Chicago is serious about potentially moving Justin Fields - I'd throw the 19th pick and Donavon Smith, Shaq Barret along with a 3rd next year. Folks forget he was a pass first QB at Ohio State. The state of the Bears last year was atrocious at every level. 

I'll keep going back to this with Trask. Everyone knew when we drafted him, he was more of a project because of the system he came from and the limited time he had been a QB. With the roster/staff we had in place, it was a win-now mode. So he really hasn't gotten any kind of true 'shot' thus far. He played a couple quarters of pre-season with non-starters and a handful of snaps in the final game of year in essentially garbage time. Now, I'm not saying he's looked good at all in those limited snaps, but I'm not gonna say the dude can't be some emblance of an NFL QB based off of this. That is totally not on him.

We drafted him in the 2nd and honestly, they need to let him sink/swim vs. trying the re-tread QB route. We either tank with him at the helm and know he's not the answer, or he finds a way to improve and maybe enters the conversation as a potential future building block.

There is less than 10% chance the bears move on from Fields with the leaps he showeed last year on a terrible roster and supporting cast. They're finally in position to move down (possibly multiple times) in the 1st and really rebuild the talent level around him. They especially wouldn't move on from Feilds for a mid round 1st, an aging LT who is likely a cut candidate and a pass rusher coming off an achilles injury with a long term deal that could hinder. Not gonna happen.  

[RedandPewterReturns]

1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said:

I'll keep going back to this with Trask. Everyone knew when we drafted him, he was more of a project because of the system he came from and the limited time he had been a QB. With the roster/staff we had in place, it was a win-now mode. So he really hasn't gotten any kind of true 'shot' thus far. He played a couple quarters of pre-season with non-starters and a handful of snaps in the final game of year in essentially garbage time. Now, I'm not saying he's looked good at all in those limited snaps, but I'm not gonna say the dude can't be some emblance of an NFL QB based off of this. That is totally not on him.

We drafted him in the 2nd and honestly, they need to let him sink/swim vs. trying the re-tread QB route. We either tank with him at the helm and know he's not the answer, or he finds a way to improve and maybe enters the conversation as a potential future building block.

There is less than 10% chance the bears move on from Fields with the leaps he showeed last year on a terrible roster and supporting cast. They're finally in position to move down (possibly multiple times) in the 1st and really rebuild the talent level around him. They especially wouldn't move on from Feilds for a mid round 1st, an aging LT who is likely a cut candidate and a pass rusher coming off an achilles injury with a long term deal that could hinder. Not gonna happen.  

1- The Fields proposal was IF THE SUPPOSED stories were true on the Bears moving on from him and taking Young. Not saying they were. 

2. Trask has earned nothing to even be considered a starter. Given a "true shot" versus 'earning" one is where some of you are highly inaccurate in your assessment. Being a 2nd round pick should not automatically earn you a spot as the future starter here especially when he was given reps with the first team in TC and was outperformed by Blaine Gabbert. Ryan Griffin has outperformed Trask with a similar supporting cast in preseason - the same cast ya'll claim Trask had that is hindering his performance? 

 

Honestly if we signed two QBs and drafted one - it wouldn't shock me to see him cut and be outplayed by some of these guys. 

[kgarrett12486]

16 hours ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

1- The Fields proposal was IF THE SUPPOSED stories were true on the Bears moving on from him and taking Young. Not saying they were. 

2. Trask has earned nothing to even be considered a starter. Given a "true shot" versus 'earning" one is where some of you are highly inaccurate in your assessment. Being a 2nd round pick should not automatically earn you a spot as the future starter here especially when he was given reps with the first team in TC and was outperformed by Blaine Gabbert. Ryan Griffin has outperformed Trask with a similar supporting cast in preseason - the same cast ya'll claim Trask had that is hindering his performance? 

 

Honestly if we signed two QBs and drafted one - it wouldn't shock me to see him cut and be outplayed by some of these guys. 

1 - Right, but that trade package wouldn't have even gotten them on the phone. The starting price would've been (2) future 1st round picks.

2 - Agreed that Trask hasn't earned the right to just be handed the job. Never said he did. However, I'm not naive and know that typically in the NFL a QB drafted in the 1st or early 2nd means you hold some merit and typically said team will give you more chances/looks. I mean you can literally say that about every rookie QB coming into the league, that they haven't 'earned' the job, but the reality is that if they're a high pick, they're going to get a shot at the job regardless of how they look in shorts during TC or hell, even in pre-season for some teams.  I just think it makes a lot more sense for a 're-tooling' franchise to give their 2nd round pick a fair shot to win the job than just hand the job to a re-tread journeyman QB (because that's the price range we're going to be shopping in if we go the vet QB route). A perfect example of how this philosophy fails has been in our own division. Carolina has tried to do this the last several years with multiple different guys.

I'll say this, in no way am I advocating that Trask is the guy, because IMO we haven't seen enough of him to be able to make an accurate assessment one way or the other. I can't sit here and say he's a bust either after he literally played a handful of snaps last year in garbage time and played with a bunch of guys who weren't even on the roster after the pre-season. Yah, he got snaps with the 1st teamers in TC, but it's TC and he was constantly moving through the personnel groups/units, as most of the 2nd and 3rd team guys do. And you would think a guy like Blaine Gabbert and Ryan Griffen (both who are veteran QB's and know the offense inside/out from being in the system for multiple years) would be performing better than a rookie, who the FO that drafted him said he would be behind the curve anyway.

Writing him off without even giving him a fair shot to assess is asinine IMO.

Edited February 28, 2023 by kgarrett12486

[RedandPewterReturns]

23 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

1 - Right, but that trade package wouldn't have even gotten them on the phone. The starting price would've been (2) future 1st round picks.

2 - Agreed that Trask hasn't earned the right to just be handed the job. Never said he did. However, I'm not naive and know that typically in the NFL a QB drafted in the 1st or early 2nd means you hold some merit and typically said team will give you more chances/looks. I mean you can literally say that about every rookie QB coming into the league, that they haven't 'earned' the job, but the reality is that if they're a high pick, they're going to get a shot at the job regardless of how they look in shorts during TC or hell, even in pre-season for some teams.  I just think it makes a lot more sense for a 're-tooling' franchise to give their 2nd round pick a fair shot to win the job than just hand the job to a re-tread journeyman QB (because that's the price range we're going to be shopping in if we go the vet QB route). A perfect example of how this philosophy fails has been in our own division. Carolina has tried to do this the last several years with multiple different guys.

I'll say this, in no way am I advocating that Trask is the guy, because IMO we haven't seen enough of him to be able to make an accurate assessment one way or the other. I can't sit here and say he's a bust either after he literally played a handful of snaps last year in garbage time and played with a bunch of guys who weren't even on the roster after the pre-season. Yah, he got snaps with the 1st teamers in TC, but it's TC and he was constantly moving through the personnel groups/units, as most of the 2nd and 3rd team guys do. And you would think a guy like Blaine Gabbert and Ryan Griffen (both who are veteran QB's and know the offense inside/out from being in the system for multiple years) would be performing better than a rookie, who the FO that drafted him said he would be behind the curve anyway.

Writing him off without even giving him a fair shot to assess is asinine IMO.

This was year 2 he got first team snaps. And he was still along the lines of Griffin. Also Trask doesn't carry all this physical talent that warrants upside that's worth the wait/risk. He's supposed to have the IQ of a starter - atleast that was what Licht and BA stated. 

Sometimes guys are extremely overdrafted. (Josh Rosen for example) Licht doesn't have a great track record on QB's either and him evalauting Jameis during the process of what he was looking for - didn't even meet what Jameis was who was a TO machine at FSU. 

I get not writing off Trask and bringing in some "re-tread" veteran is to see if he can compete. When given the opportunity in TC to play with the 1's he didn't make the most of it in year 2 so that's where my assessment is. I think he was overdrafted bc a guy with starter upside should have been able to be a back up in year 2 over a guy like Blaine Gabbert. 

[kgarrett12486]

1 hour ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

This was year 2 he got first team snaps. And he was still along the lines of Griffin. Also Trask doesn't carry all this physical talent that warrants upside that's worth the wait/risk. He's supposed to have the IQ of a starter - atleast that was what Licht and BA stated. 

Sometimes guys are extremely overdrafted. (Josh Rosen for example) Licht doesn't have a great track record on QB's either and him evalauting Jameis during the process of what he was looking for - didn't even meet what Jameis was who was a TO machine at FSU. 

I get not writing off Trask and bringing in some "re-tread" veteran is to see if he can compete. When given the opportunity in TC to play with the 1's he didn't make the most of it in year 2 so that's where my assessment is. I think he was overdrafted bc a guy with starter upside should have been able to be a back up in year 2 over a guy like Blaine Gabbert. 

If you look back at his scouting coming out, most show his arm strength and ball placement as attributes along with the referenced football IQ. He had the physical arm talent and cerebral you look for in a QB prospcect coming out. His two biggest knocks were his limited history of playing the position and his immobility. The 1st part in being why they slow-played him and they even said they would do this coming into last year. They kept Gabbert on this team for that reason. 

I think the Bucs are doing the smart thing here. Licht basically came out yesterday and offered this - "Trask is gonna get the opportunity to be the starter no matter who we bring in." They're gonna give him every chance to win this job going into the year with a full-offseason under his belt to prepare as the starter. It's up to him what he does with the opportunity, but they're at least giving him that vs. just phasing him out before he even got a true look. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by kgarrett12486

[RedandPewterReturns]

12 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

If you look back at his scouting coming out, most show his arm strength and ball placement as attributes along with the referenced football IQ. He had the physical arm talent and cerebral you look for in a QB prospcect coming out. His two biggest knocks were his limited history of playing the position and his immobility. The 1st part in being why they slow-played him and they even said they would do this coming into last year. They kept Gabbert on this team for that reason. 

I think the Bucs are doing the smart thing here. Licht basically came out yesterday and offered this - "Trask is gonna get the opportunity to be the starter no matter who we bring in." They're gonna give him every chance to win this job going into the year with a full-offseason under his belt to prepare as the starter. It's up to him what he does with the opportunity, but they're at least giving him that vs. just phasing him out before he even got a true look. 

Yes he will be given the opportunity but lets also realize Licht and Bowles technically can't talk about other QB's bc they're not officially FA's and on the bucs roster. 

I'm being a bit more realistic on the account - Bowles is going to bring in 1 maybe 2 guys to compete with Trask bc he's on a make or break year. 

I do have confidence that Canales will implement a very QB friendly offense that will be very balanced so we will not be 70/30 pass team. 

My arguments here against trask is when I see he hasn't been "given" a full opportunity. My take is he hasn't really earned it by outplaying the guy in front of him who technically is bad and the reviews in practice pre-season the last two years aren't exactly glowing. Maybe a fresh system with this staff will be what he needs? Who knows. 

[kgarrett12486]

8 hours ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

Yes he will be given the opportunity but lets also realize Licht and Bowles technically can't talk about other QB's bc they're not officially FA's and on the bucs roster. 

I'm being a bit more realistic on the account - Bowles is going to bring in 1 maybe 2 guys to compete with Trask bc he's on a make or break year. 

I do have confidence that Canales will implement a very QB friendly offense that will be very balanced so we will not be 70/30 pass team. 

My arguments here against trask is when I see he hasn't been "given" a full opportunity. My take is he hasn't really earned it by outplaying the guy in front of him who technically is bad and the reviews in practice pre-season the last two years aren't exactly glowing. Maybe a fresh system with this staff will be what he needs? Who knows. 

Licht has already said they'll be bringing in at least 1 vet and most likely a draft pick to compete with him. Again, never said they're just going to hand him the job. He's gonna have to earn it, but at least he's getting a true shot to do so. 

It's exactly what we should be doing on all accounts. 

[BucsDraftGeek47]

13 hours ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

My arguments here against trask is when I see he hasn't been "given" a full opportunity. My take is he hasn't really earned it by outplaying the guy in front of him who technically is bad and the reviews in practice pre-season the last two years aren't exactly glowing. Maybe a fresh system with this staff will be what he needs? Who knows. 

Trask was never going to sniff 1st team reps with Brady on the team

and for some ridiculous reason BA had a man crush on Gabbert so he stuck around

Bowles doesnt want to give a rookie or unproven guy the chance bc he was on the hot seat the latter half of last season, and you can bet his seat is niceeee and warm right now too

is Trask the guy? idk

but as of right now we still have to say "maybe" because there still is a chance

he stuck it out at Florida and when finally got the chance to start he showed he could swim with the rest of the SEC so I have some faith that he can produce in a QB friendly system, at least enough to get us by next year , and if not we go from there

i just dont love the idea of retread QBs for us next year, if we are gona suck, might as well let Trask play

unless Canales system can make a guy like Brissett next years version of Geno Smith but imo that is too optimistic