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CWood21

The STL Cardinals Thread - NL Central Champs!

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Is Andrew Miller your Opening Day Closer next year?

I think with the rule change starting next year with Lefties the importance of having two lefties in your Pen that can pitch in the middle innings kind of diminishes. I'm fine with a Pen that has Tyler Webb as our Middle Reliever and Andrew Miller as our Closer. And I didn't realize this, But Webb was actually was pretty good in games where he at least pitched an inning. And he did it quite often......didn't realize that he did so well in that role. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

In the same post you just said that Bader is only a 5th OF (like all of our other OF prospects) but for some reason some other team would give up some "real talent" for him (even if its part of a package) its very unlikely that both of those things are true

 

We cant move Fowler because of his contract, we have to find somewhere for Carp to play because of his contract, and we are already pushing the limits of our payroll as it is....... 

We've all seen this play before, and its likely to end with the FO/Ownership looking at this year, saying "Look how great we did! even with an under preforming offense!" and we will just roll basically the same squad back out there.

Right now Bader has potential. In another half season of bad hitting, he has nothing. That's why I want to trade him. @CWood21 just said he's worth 2 wins with being a bad hitter. Some team might think they can turn him around. He offers nothing more than Randy A of Lane Thomas, especially as the 5th OF. If we can get someone good for him, why not?

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1 minute ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Right now Bader has potential. In another half season of bad hitting, he has nothing. That's why I want to trade him. @CWood21 just said he's worth 2 wins with being a bad hitter. Some team might think they can turn him around. He offers nothing more than Randy A of Lane Thomas, especially as the 5th OF. If we can get someone good for him, why not?

He is a MUCH better defender than any of the other group of OF prospects that we have. And with Fowler's D getting worse, Edman being solid but not a true Outfielder, and possibly Ozuna or even worse Carpenter in Left, we need a stud defensive CF more than ever

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2 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

He is a MUCH better defender than any of the other group of OF prospects that we have. And with Fowler's D getting worse, Edman being solid but not a true Outfielder, and possibly Ozuna or even worse Carpenter in Left, we need a stud defensive CF more than ever

How much better is he than Thomas and Randy on defense? Neither of those guys will fetch us anything. We need to move OFs because we have too many. I think it makes the most sense to move Bader. Maybe in a package that could get us a better COF guy? Then we don't have to rely on garbage defensive COF's. 

We need to add more talent. We can't keep relying on 2 WAR players. We need some truly talented guys to push us over the edge. I'm tired of being mediocre, and I know we made the NLCS this year, but we were mediocre. 

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16 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

How much better is he than Thomas and Randy on defense? Neither of those guys will fetch us anything. We need to move OFs because we have too many. I think it makes the most sense to move Bader. Maybe in a package that could get us a better COF guy? Then we don't have to rely on garbage defensive COF's. 

We need to add more talent. We can't keep relying on 2 WAR players. We need some truly talented guys to push us over the edge. I'm tired of being mediocre, and I know we made the NLCS this year, but we were mediocre. 

You are just full of contradictions today. Im not saying we are great, but if we were just mediocre, then the rest of baseball is just awful...

Which if thats the case, better to be the man with one eye in the land of the blind, than to pluck it out to trade it for a set of binoculars

 

As to Bader's defense, it is noticeable how much better his defense is than any of our other guys, even Thomas or Randy. It was said multiple times this year that the Cardinals view him as one of the best Defensive CFs in the game (do I agree? Not quite, but hes darn good) and was even mentioned on one of the national broadcast during the playoffs. Id love to hear this pipedream/magical trade out there you keep refrencing, to get back an impact player were getting back for just our spare parts??

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21 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

You are just full of contradictions today. Im not saying we are great, but if we were just mediocre, then the rest of baseball is just awful...

I'm really not. Bader RIGHT NOW has potential. If he sucks again, he's probably nothing more than a 5th OF. That's all I'm saying. I'm tired of having guys whose potential is a 2 WAR player. Can we not package a few of these guys to get someone who might move the needle a little? Maybe clearing out some of these 2 WAR players can make a spot for someone like Carlson who could be a lot better than that. Like I said, I'm tired of holding onto guys until they have absolutely no value at all. Look at Jedd Gyorko. 

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1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Right now Bader has potential. In another half season of bad hitting, he has nothing. That's why I want to trade him. @CWood21 just said he's worth 2 wins with being a bad hitter. Some team might think they can turn him around. He offers nothing more than Randy A of Lane Thomas, especially as the 5th OF. If we can get someone good for him, why not?

I'm confused.  You think we can get something useful for him, but now you're essentially advocating dealing him because you don't think he's much different that what we've already got. 

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1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

How much better is he than Thomas and Randy on defense? Neither of those guys will fetch us anything. We need to move OFs because we have too many. I think it makes the most sense to move Bader. Maybe in a package that could get us a better COF guy? Then we don't have to rely on garbage defensive COF's. 

We need to add more talent. We can't keep relying on 2 WAR players. We need some truly talented guys to push us over the edge. I'm tired of being mediocre, and I know we made the NLCS this year, but we were mediocre. 

If you want to argue that we have too many good, but not great OFers, I'd agree.  But Harrison Bader isn't the guy I'm looking to actively deal.  I'd sooner move Tyler O'Neill than Harrison Bader.  At least with Bader, there's a clear role for him on this roster.  You're essentially advocating sending a 2 WAR CF for a 1.5 WAR CF, and hoping that the pieces that Bader brings back in a trade will help get a quality bat.  Harrison Bader isn't bringing back a quality bat back.

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1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

If you want to argue that we have too many good, but not great OFers, I'd agree.  But Harrison Bader isn't the guy I'm looking to actively deal.  I'd sooner move Tyler O'Neill than Harrison Bader.  At least with Bader, there's a clear role for him on this roster.  You're essentially advocating sending a 2 WAR CF for a 1.5 WAR CF, and hoping that the pieces that Bader brings back in a trade will help get a quality bat.  Harrison Bader isn't bringing back a quality bat back.

I'd agree there. I don't think Bader can get much individually, that's why we should package him. I agree about O'Neil too. I'd try to put them together if possible. Or move Bader and/or O'Neil with a young pitcher like Hudson. That's a package that could get us someone elite. I'm not sold on Hudson being more than a MOR guy, so I'd trade him now. 

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1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

I'm confused.  You think we can get something useful for him, but now you're essentially advocating dealing him because you don't think he's much different that what we've already got. 

I think right now he's got value. If he continues to suck at the plate(which he will), his value diminishes. How many times can I say this? 

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13 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said:

Are the Cardinals not going to offer Ozuna a QO in fear that he would actually accept it? 

I hope not. I'd be pretty happy with Ozuna on a 1 year deal. I'd also be happy with no Ozuna and an extra draft pick. I think it would be pretty dumb to not offer it to him.

Did you see something about them not offering him one? I don't have twitter anymore, so I miss out on the hot takes. 

Edited by MOSteelers56

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11 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said:

Are the Cardinals not going to offer Ozuna a QO in fear that he would actually accept it? 

That seems silly. If anything, it would be best case scenario that he does accept it. Its only a $5m raise, for only 1 year.

We keep a power bat, dont have to commit long term, and we get one year closer to shedding the bad contracts/Dylan Carlson actually being ready.

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26 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said:

Are the Cardinals not going to offer Ozuna a QO in fear that he would actually accept it? 

They're going to offer him the QO. I actually think they'd be thrilled if he took it. That eliminates a big spot they would need to fill both in the order and the field in a relatively weak FA class for OFs...

They would have to commit long term or risk another bad contract and know what type of production they'd be getting vs. Bringing in a new face.. 

Mark Saxon already saying we have every intention on offering the QO...

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