kgarrett12486 Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 Found this article today from Fangraphs. It gives the top 50 most valuable players on a trade front. Very interesting stuff. They have Nootbaar at #47 and Walker at #43. For reference, the (3) Seattle studs - Gilbert #33, Castillo #32 and Kirby #26. That should give us an idea of how valuable these guys are viewed across baseball and what it's gonna potentially take to get a guy of their caliber. Article for reference - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2023-trade-value-nos-21-30/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 This team is going to mess around, go 12-5 post ASB and not move ANYTHING My buddy threw this out the other day and I cant get it out of my head now, were going to swap O'Neill to bring back Lance Lynn (plus a prospect due to his contract) and that will be our deadline move, while we go 80-82 and miss the playoffs by a handful of games. Then they will spin it as we "won" the second half Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 46 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: This team is going to mess around, go 12-5 post ASB and not move ANYTHING My buddy threw this out the other day and I cant get it out of my head now, were going to swap O'Neill to bring back Lance Lynn (plus a prospect due to his contract) and that will be our deadline move, while we go 80-82 and miss the playoffs by a handful of games. Then they will spin it as we "won" the second half Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 Also, I was at the game last night. We won. But I didn't heckle anyone. And I left in the 4th inning, so I didn't even see any scores. Work has been kicking my butt, I just moved, and added a lot of **** to the apartment, and I just went to the game on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 1 hour ago, ThatJerkDave said: I don’t WANT it do happen. It’s just what is most obviously going to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: This team is going to mess around, go 12-5 post ASB and not move ANYTHING My buddy threw this out the other day and I cant get it out of my head now, were going to swap O'Neill to bring back Lance Lynn (plus a prospect due to his contract) and that will be our deadline move, while we go 80-82 and miss the playoffs by a handful of games. Then they will spin it as we "won" the second half That would be our luck lol. I think it's different this year though, For as hot as we've been recently (8-2 in our last 10 games), Milwaukee has been just as hot (7-3 in their last 10) and we're not really gaining any significant ground during this winning stretch. Winning the devision is really the only concievable chance we would have of the playoffs. I think with Mo already have come out and said theire focus is for 2024 now, he doesn't want to back trach on that. Stil lthink we're going to be sellers, it's just to what level remains to be seen. The last few days of us bolstering the Team and minors with guys like Tepera and Barnes tells me they're preparing for the exodus of MLB roster peices to get through rest of the year withour taxing young arms. Edited July 20, 2023 by kgarrett12486 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: I think with Mo already have come out and said theire focus is for 2024 now, he doesn't want to back trach on that. Stil lthink we're going to be sellers, it's just to what level remains to be seen. I very much disagree there, Mo would love to back track and say "Hey, were hot, and we've made up X games, we've got a chance to make the playoffs" If it was the other way, and he had to admit defeat, he would never do that. Yes, the Brewers are also currently hot, but while we get 8 against the Cubs, they get 6 against the Braves. Which is why Mo is going to wait till the very end to decide on his moves. (We're actually closer to the last WC spot than we are to the Division) You cant tell me if we get to 50-52 wins by July 30th, and the Brewers sputter a bit here with ATL/CIN/ATL and are only 5-6 games up on us, that this Front Office wont spin it as we can catch them? The media fluff pieces are already on their way, Hicks "loves it" here and "wants to be here". Im just saying, Im not getting my hopes up, Ive seen this playbook too many times before. And if we werent selling off when we were closer to the worst record in baseball than our Division leader, I have a hard time believing it if we are on a hot streak closing the gap. Edited July 20, 2023 by StLunatic88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: I very much disagree there, Mo would love to back track and say "Hey, were hot, and we've made up X games, we've got a chance to make the playoffs" If it was the other way, and he had to admit defeat, he would never do that. Yes, the Brewers are also currently hot, but while we get 8 against the Cubs, they get 6 against the Braves. Which is why Mo is going to wait till the very end to decide on his moves. (We're actually closer to the last WC spot than we are to the Division) Except he's already done that on this season. It's why I applaude him on coming out early and actually owning it in the interviews and not just taking the usual route of 'well, we'll wait and see what happens with this team, standings, etc. as we approach the deadline to decide our course.' The clear focus for the FO by their own admission (publicly might I add) is building the roster for 2024, not for fortifying to make a playoff push. Now, that doesn't mean I can't see them both selling and buying, because I think that could be in play if they find the right deal for a young controllable starter. I guess I'm just not ready to buy into this team taking off. We beat the bottom-dwelling team of the NL in the Nationals and a Marlins team that had been swept in the series post ASB right before playing us. I'm thinking we're more likely to split series coming up vs. taking them, especially with Dbacks following the Cubs. Who knows though, gonna find out a lot over the next (9) games. IMO that is the window for this team to make up significant ground to even give it a thought. I don't see it though as we sit here now, even coming off the back to back series wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: Except he's already done that on this season. It's why I applaude him on coming out early and actually owning it in the interviews and not just taking the usual route of 'well, we'll wait and see what happens with this team, standings, etc. as we approach the deadline to decide our course.' Except he did all of that when we were closer to the Bottom of the league than our Division leader. Before we just tore off 5 straight and 7 of the last 10. If this continues through the end of the month (not winning streak, but something like .700+ winning) do you really think Mo is going to keep that line? You think he is going to look at Arenado and say, "well I did say that I was going to sell 3 weeks ago, guess I still have to"... I sure dont 3 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: The clear focus for the FO by their own admission (publicly might I add) is building the roster for 2024, not for fortifying to make a playoff push. Now, that doesn't mean I can't see them both selling and buying, because I think that could be in play if they find the right deal for a young controllable starter. None of the moves we recently made shouldnt have been made even if we were on pace for 100 wins. 3 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: I guess I'm just not ready to buy into this team taking off. We beat the bottom-dwelling team of the NL in the Nationals and a Marlins team that had been swept in the series post ASB right before playing us. I'm thinking we're more likely to split series coming up vs. taking them, especially with Dbacks following the Cubs. You dont have to buy into it. They are currently doing it on the field. It will absolutely catch up to them (the pitching staff cant do this long term) but they sure can do it for a few weeks, and thats all that it takes to get us within striking distance of both the Division and Wild Card on July 30th and they decide to keep everything, only to fall short in the following 2 months. 3 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: Who knows though, gonna find out a lot over the next (9) games. IMO that is the window for this team to make up significant ground to even give it a thought. I don't see it though as we sit here now, even coming off the back to back series wins. Sure, if we split with the Cubs this weekend, it sets things back to reality. But if we take like 6 or 7 out of 8 from them (a team who will for sure be selling off any asset they have), and as long as we dont get swept in Arizona (another team who is faltering like the Marlins) then we will be right in it. This is all why I said, if we were actually committed to punting on this year and focusing on '24, we would have started shipping off pieces during the ASB (the Roayls started before that). Instead we are just outside of a week from the deadline, we havent moved a single piece, and there are now crickets in the rumor mill about our guys. Edited July 20, 2023 by StLunatic88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 23 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: Quote Except he did all of that when we were closer to the Bottom of the league than our Division leader. Before we just tore off 5 straight and 7 of the last 10. If this continues through the end of the month (not winning streak, but something like .700+ winning) do you really think Mo is going to keep that line? You think he is going to look at Arenado and say, "well I did say that I was going to sell 3 weeks ago, guess I still have to"... I sure dont Quote None of the moves we recently made shouldnt have been made even if we were on pace for 100 wins. Quote You dont have to buy into it. They are currently doing it on the field. It will absolutely catch up to them (the pitching staff cant do this long term) but they sure can do it for a few weeks, and thats all that it takes to get us within striking distance of both the Division and Wild Card on July 30th and they decide to keep everything, only to fall short in the following 2 months. Quote Sure, if we split with the Cubs this weekend, it sets things back to reality. But if we take like 6 or 7 out of 8 from them (a team who will for sure be selling off any asset they have), and as long as we dont get swept in Arizona (another team who is faltering like the Marlins) then we will be right in it. This is all why I said, if we were actually committed to punting on this year and focusing on '24, we would have started shipping off pieces during the ASB (the Roayls started before that). Instead we are just outside of a week from the deadline, we havent moved a single piece, and there are now crickets in the rumor mill about our guys. 1] Right, and we're still the 4th worst team in th entire NL and still 10 games out of the division lead (we were 12.5 games out at ASB) even with this winning streak. That's my point, we really have gained tractionable ground in the standings even taking 8/10 last games. Let alone if I don't think this is sustainable (which i don t'), I really don't think this changes the philospohy at the deadline that we're going to be selling off potential FA's. The only thing i think it would alter is us trading off other still controllable peices vs. not. I wouldn't see us going out and adding RP pitchers on expiring deals that weren't in the plans for 24' and beyond, like we've seen on our normal trade deadline deals. LIS, I don't see this team looking to fortify at the dealine for a playoff push regardless of whether they rattle off 7+ games over the next 10, because I don't see us within striking distance still with the amount of games left. I think in that scenario, they're just goijng to let the team ride as it is outside of Hicks, Stratton and Flaherty. In that scenario, they may be willing to just hold Monty and see what happens there, but that would be the only real change to the plan i could see. 2] I mean I guess, but in a normal year you don't see us scouring the DFA market at the deadline for organizational depth. 3] We're talking about a perfect storm happening here. I've seen this club go on these mini runs for a week or so and then revert back to what they were. It's really about the standings and like I said, I'm skeptical that even if we rattle off 6-7 games over the next 10, that we're going to be making up the ground we're talking about here to even make this a choice. I just don't see the teams we're chasing (WC or division) all faltering at same time. Nor do i think the Brewers are going to fall off coming up here, when they're playing some of their better ball over the last 3+weeks. 4] I mean the Royals are literally the only club that has sold off any piece of significance thus far. it's not like we;'re the only non-contending club hording assets until the deadline. The Nationals have yet to move any of their peices, same with the White Sox. You just don't see it in baseball before the deadline, especially this year because there are so many teams still in contention up until the days leading up to the deadline. The buyers want to wait until they have a full scope of what's available on the market and it opens up more avenues/doors for them. I'm still seeing us daily in the rumor mills. Just saw today that the Phillies have recnetly engaged with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 Quote 1:00pm: Mariners manager Scott Servais tells reporters that Kelenic’s injury occurred last night after he kicked a water cooler out of frustration following a ninth-inning strikeout (Twitter link via Adam Jude of the Seattle Times). An emotional Kelenic met with reporters and expressed remorse (video link via Divish). “I let the emotions get the best of me,” said Kelenic. “I just feel terrible — especially for the guys. I just let them down, and I take full responsibility for it. It’s on me. It can’t happen.” 12:33pm: The Mariners announced that Kelenic has been placed on the 10-day IL due to a fracture in his left foot. A timeline for his return was not provided. Thank you Jarred. You may have just helped us out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said: I wouldn't see us going out and adding RP pitchers on expiring deals that weren't in the plans for 24' and beyond, like we've seen on our normal trade deadline deals. This right here, is the key to what Mo said. He never daid we were going to be selling off pieces, just that we wouldnt be looking at rentals. 1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said: Right, and we're still the 4th worst team in th entire NL and still 10 games out of the division lead (we were 12.5 games out at ASB) even with this winning streak. Even if you want to disregard the Brewers as "too far out front" (which again, to actually catch, I agree, but to make it close enough with 2 months to go for them to think/pretend we have a chance is all it needs to be in the next 11 days as they have to go up against the Best Team in Baseball for 6 games) then fine, but with a great finish to the month, and all the other WC teams who are way out (atleast 5 games) infront of us playing like .500 recently (actually all but one, SF, being .500 or worse in the last 10) we could absolutely close that gap enough by the Deadline. 2 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: 2] I mean I guess, but in a normal year you don't see us scouring the DFA market at the deadline for organizational depth. But we should have been. Dont excuse bad practices just because we havent done it in the past. 2 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: 3] We're talking about a perfect storm happening here. I've seen this club go on these mini runs for a week or so and then revert back to what they were I am talking about this EXAXCT scenario. And all it needs to last is for 11 more days Im not expecting us to catch them, but this Organization has never shown anything other than they will be sunshine pumpers, and all they need is a hot streak to say we are still in it with a fighting chance. Once again, I dont WANT this, its just very obviously something that Mo, Girsch and DeWitt would do. In a very very real scenario, If we stay hot, and go 8-3 to end the month while the Brewers have one of the hardest stretches in baseball (other than probably the Reds) and go 3-6 in that same time... that cuts the division to 6.5 games as we sit there with an off day on July 31st. Especially if that leaves us going 15-5 in our last 20, with Arenado/Goldy/Mikolas doing all the Rights Holders interviews about this team being different now... Its not a guarantee or anything to happen, its just a VERY real possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Steven Matz just out-pitched Marcus Stroman. We’ve gone through the looking glass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 16 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: Quote This right here, is the key to what Mo said. He never daid we were going to be selling off pieces, just that we wouldnt be looking at rentals. Quote Once again, I dont WANT this, its just very obviously something that Mo, Girsch and DeWitt would do. In a very very real scenario, If we stay hot, and go 8-3 to end the month while the Brewers have one of the hardest stretches in baseball (other than probably the Reds) and go 3-6 in that same time... that cuts the division to 6.5 games as we sit there with an off day on July 31st. Especially if that leaves us going 15-5 in our last 20, with Arenado/Goldy/Mikolas doing all the Rights Holders interviews about this team being different now... Its not a guarantee or anything to happen, its just a VERY real possibility. 1] He's not going to come out and say they're unloading X,Y,Z. Wouldn't be very savvy business wise to do that. if you listen to the interviews he's had recently, you can read between the lines in what he's saying. Changes are coming at the deadline and that they're looking to move players that aren't in their plans for 2024 and 2025, whether that be impending FA's or guys with control still. It's more a matter of what they can find at the deadline vs. the offseason. Never once has he mentioned anything about looking to bolster the 2023 team down the stretch, the message has been consistent over the last month - 2023 is considered a wash and 2024 is the focus now. Even in this interview (2) days ago. 2] I mean I get it, don't think it hasn't crossed my mind as well about them doing a 180. However, I just think it's such a stretch for it to actually happen. LIS, you're essentially talking about a perfect storm of things that have to come together - us playing almost .800 ball over the next weeks, the Brewers playing like sub .500 ball, none of the (2)WC contenders seperating and they all falter together, everyone staying healthy, etc. I'm not buying into it. If this team is sitting 6- games out by 7/31/23, then I might change my tune, but until then it's a hope/prayer at best. I think the FO has realized the continued faults in this roster and the holes they have in the pitching department and know the likelihood of sustained success is marginal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 28 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: Steven Matz just out-pitched Marcus Stroman. We’ve gone through the looking glass For some reason, we absolutely torch Stroman. In his career vs. Cardinals: 1-5 5.30 ERA It's great to see Matz turning a corner though. He's only given up more than (2) runs 1x in his last 5 games going more than 1 IP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.