The STL Cardinals Thread - Welcome to STL JJ!

[JonStark]

7 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I mean, is anyone really surprised?  They made a "big" swing with Gray, and two solid singles with Gibson and Lynn.  But this is a team that lost 91 games last year.  Looks like a ~.500 team at best.

I honestly expected a big offseason. Last season wasn't just bad, it was dreadful by STL's standards. 

I've lowered my expectations over the last week or two but was still expecting at least one more move to get somewhat excited over. Striking out on Matsui is a big one. 

[kgarrett12486]

20 hours ago, JonStark said:

Cool. Missed out on Matsui too. 

Great offseason so far. 

I'm honestly not bummed about missing on Matsui. I did a quick breakdown on him a few pages back and while there is no denying his results and stuff, there are some serious questions and how he'll translate. His inconsistent WBC and the fact that he really struggled to command his pitches due to the size difference in the baseball. The other glaring one being the reports of him listed at "5'8" are generous.

He also apparently prefers to go to a team where he has a clearer path to being able to step in and be the defined closer, as he was in the NPB. The Padres lost Hader and really have no one else to challenge that role, so I can see why. Mike Schildt is also more aligned with having 'traditional' set-up and closer roles in the BP. 

[kgarrett12486]

9 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I mean, is anyone really surprised?  They made a "big" swing with Gray, and two solid singles with Gibson and Lynn.  But this is a team that lost 91 games last year.  Looks like a ~.500 team at best.

I can't really fault what we've done on the FA side. We were never going to be true contenders for Yamamoto and nor should we be when you're talking about a potential 10 year and $250-300M+ deal for any SP, let alone one that has no track record in the MLB. That is a franchise crippler if you miss and only a handful of markets can absorb that and still be able to compete. I mean when teams markets like Philly, Chicago and Boston can't even get Yamamoto to seriously engage in negotations vs. the New York and West Coast market, we never had a shot despite any efforts we may of made. 

I do believe we had every intetnion of pressing for Nola until it became evident real early on he was hell bent on satying in Philly and did so. 

We'd already been down the Jordan Montgomery path and don't think they thought he's worth the money he's going to command given his 2nd half and post-season run. 

Blake Snell doesn't seem like he wants to play anywhere but the coasts

All things considered, the robust marker turned out to be not so much. We landed one of the most coveted SP's on the market in Gray like you said, and (2) BOR veterans to fill the innings void we had. While it might not have been as high profile as we'd hoped before FA, I consider that a win due to the circumstances. I also like the fact they struck early and got their targets vs. waitinga round for the market to develop like some of these teams that need a SP and when they don't get that have are going desperately overpay for the pivots.

I think where I get concerned here is on the trade front. We kept hearing down the stretch run and early in this off-season about how the FO had a 'coming to jesus' moment regarding their internal prospects/plays and how they were now willing to part with these types in order to obtain FOR starters with cost control. Yet, we still hear reports that they're unwilling to discuss including certain guys (not named Jordan Walker) for anyone, which is asanine IMO. 

I still think the BP needs another RHP that can be used in high leverage, but by all accounts we're still exploring that path. If they don't end up adding anyone else in that capacity, I think that chalks up as a loss on FO's part.

 

[kgarrett12486]

The Padres are giving Matsui a 4 year deal. Yah, no thanks. I want no part of a 4 year deal to a RP, let alone one that's never pitched in MLB. 

[MOSteelers56]

Any opinions about bringing Hicks back?

[kgarrett12486]

1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Any opinions about bringing Hicks back?

Not crazy about it, but it's nothing to do with Hicks. I'd welcome his stuff back. It's more the fact that in this market, you're going to have to give him a 3-4 year deal, which i hate for a RP. Hicks is a classic example of the volatility of an RP year/year. We've seen the high-high and the low-low.

If we're willing to give that type of deal, then I say go big and offer same term to the best RP in baseball over the last handful of years (Hader). Yah, you're going to pay more and the back end of deal probably is bad, but you're getting an elite back-end for next year and possibly beyond. 

[CWood21]

Glad we can finally put that Yamamoto dream to rest.

[kgarrett12486]

8 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Glad we can finally put that Yamamoto dream to rest.

Same here. It was never gonna be anyone but the Dodgers or Mets/Yankees. Giving a 12 year deal to a SP is one of the worst investments you can make in baseball. For the Dodgers sake, they should hope he is the stud he's projected to be, just so he opts out of the deal after like year 5 and they got him for those prime years. 

Yamamoto was also clogging up the rest of the market (both in FA and the trade market). Now that he's off the board, likely to see market pick back up in new year.   

[MOSteelers56]

Any opinions on Victor Scott? He's risen through the Minors at a good clip. He's got crazy speed and seems to be a decent hitter. I wonder if he'll be pushing for a call up this year? Our OF is far from as set in stone as it once was, especially in CF. 

[kgarrett12486]

On 12/30/2023 at 12:29 PM, MOSteelers56 said:

Any opinions on Victor Scott? He's risen through the Minors at a good clip. He's got crazy speed and seems to be a decent hitter. I wonder if he'll be pushing for a call up this year? Our OF is far from as set in stone as it once was, especially in CF. 

I think he turned a lot of heads in the FO last season with his ascension through two levels. His speed was well know when he was drafted, but he's a legit 80 grade. More imprtantly though, he knows the art of stealing - how/when to swipe a base, which is half the battle. We haven't seen anyone on this level since Vince Coleman/Lou Brock. 

He's got the ability to win a GG in CF defensively, but his arm will limit what he can do. Coming inot the year, the main question on him was will he make enough contact to be a legit top of the order guy. He silenced those doubts this season. Now he's got to repeat that in 2024. if he does, he's pushing to be on this team at some point. 

[MOSteelers56]

55 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said:

I think he turned a lot of heads in the FO last season with his ascension through two levels. His speed was well know when he was drafted, but he's a legit 80 grade. More imprtantly though, he knows the art of stealing - how/when to swipe a base, which is half the battle. We haven't seen anyone on this level since Vince Coleman/Lou Brock. 

He's got the ability to win a GG in CF defensively, but his arm will limit what he can do. Coming inot the year, the main question on him was will he make enough contact to be a legit top of the order guy. He silenced those doubts this season. Now he's got to repeat that in 2024. if he does, he's pushing to be on this team at some point. 

Well, let's hope he keeps it up and he can make Edman expendable. I love Tommy, but he could be a nice addition to a deal for a quality player. 

::EDIT:: I thought of something else about Scott and didn't want to make another post. Even if he can't ever develop into a top of the order guy, he could still be a really valuable end of the order guy. I hope he keeps developing. The team could use a little closer to Brock at the plate than Coleman, thought I wouldn't be upset if "all" he becomes in Coleman. 

[kgarrett12486]

I think we can put the Josh Hader dream to rest. DeWitt has completely reverse course from what they preached early this off-season and even up until the last 30-45 days. He was giving interview with John Denton yesterday and basically said the uncertainity of the Bally Sports TV money is now a concern and they're not going to be spending 'double digits' on any additional player adds. Likely still going to see another BP arm added, but it's likely going to be someone on a 1-2 year deal for $5-7 million AAV. I think that takes us our on Hicks too. 

 

[kgarrett12486]

Cardinals acquired RHP Andrew Kittredge from the Rays for OF Richie Palacios.

 

As anticipated, the Cardinals add some bullpen help by dealing once again from their excess of outfielders. Kittredge, 33, registered a 3.09 ERA, 1.20 WHIP and a 10/2 K/BB ratio over 11 2/3 innings with the Rays during the 2023 campaign . He’s also accumulated 15 saves over the past four seasons with the Rays, so he does have some experience in the ninth inning. Expect him to settle into a setup role in the seventh or eighth inning to begin his tenure with the Cardinals.

[CWood21]

On 1/5/2024 at 3:20 PM, kgarrett12486 said:

I think we can put the Josh Hader dream to rest. DeWitt has completely reverse course from what they preached early this off-season and even up until the last 30-45 days. He was giving interview with John Denton yesterday and basically said the uncertainity of the Bally Sports TV money is now a concern and they're not going to be spending 'double digits' on any additional player adds. Likely still going to see another BP arm added, but it's likely going to be someone on a 1-2 year deal for $5-7 million AAV. I think that takes us our on Hicks too. 

Is ANYONE actually shocked?  This one was about as obvious as it gets.  The structure of the Sonny Gray was enough proof that the FO was full of it.

[MOSteelers56]

I like the Kittredge trade. He’s got a good chance to be one of our top relief guys. He’ll be at least a good 7th inning guy, but I think he’ll be the setup guy. Adding a high leverage reliever for our #5 or 6 OF is a good deal. I hope we keep adding.