celestial Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 7 minutes ago, Acgott said: Do you consider McAdoo a good coach? What do you like about him? Has winning pedigree (except this season), runs a scheme that is successful in Green Bay (it merely requires an accurate QB that can use his legs, Hundley would do fine here), has a 11-5 season under his belt, criticizes the right things in a quarterback (he was 100% right to say a QB needs to have quick feet, needs to navigate in a muddy pocket, etc), has gotten immediate first year production out of 1st round weapons like Engram, players seem to support him with Landon Collins' and OBJ publicly saying so, etc. Most of the criticisms about McAdoo come from whether or not people think Eli's play is because of McAdoo or because of Eli. The next 5 games will give us a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Just now, celestial said: Has winning pedigree (except this season), runs a scheme that is successful in Green Bay, has a 11-5 season under his belt, criticizes the right things in a quarterback (he was 100% right to say a QB needs to have quick feet, needs to navigate in a muddy pocket, etc), has gotten immediate first year production out of 1st round weapons like Engram, players seem to support him with Landon Collins' and OBJ publicly saying so, etc. What changed for the colossal collapse between last year and this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celestial Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 1 minute ago, Acgott said: What changed for the colossal collapse between last year and this year. Difficult schedule and bad QB play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Just now, celestial said: QB play You said Eli has been terrible for years. Why didn't McAdoo compensate for Eli's weaknesses. Why did the defense fall apart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celestial Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Just now, Acgott said: You said Eli has been terrible for years. Why didn't McAdoo compensate for Eli's weaknesses. Why did the defense fall apart? McAdoo cannot compensate for Eli's weaknesses at Eli's advanced age, now, and still win games. Everything cannot be "perfect". This is the NFL. The defense fell apart because they were on the field too long. We kept going 3-and-out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 1 minute ago, celestial said: McAdoo cannot compensate for Eli's weaknesses at Eli's advanced age, now, and still win games. Everything cannot be "perfect". This is the NFL. The defense fell apart because they were on the field too long. We kept going 3-and-out. Should the Giants keep Reese? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celestial Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, Acgott said: Should the Giants keep Reese? In my opinion, yes The criticism Reese gets is overblown. Reese gets the most out of his picks and is a good GM compared to other GMs in the league. Reese misses on his later picks, but hits on the most important picks, the 1st round picks, consistently. Reese gets top 10 1st round talents like Odell, Landon Colins and Engram, whereas other GMs get serviceable or only good starters from their mid round picks, while missing out on the best players in the 1st round.Franchise players like Odell, Collins and Engram make Superbowl rosters, not average players from the 3rd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, celestial said: In my opinion, yes The criticism Reese gets is overblown. Reese gets the most out of his picks and is a good GM compared to other GMs in the league. Reese misses on his later picks, but hits on the most important picks, the 1st round picks, consistently. Reese gets top 10 1st round talents like Odell, Landon Colins and Engram, whereas other GMs get serviceable or only good starters from their mid round picks, while missing out on the best players in the 1st round.Franchise players like Odell, Collins and Engram make Superbowl rosters, not average players from the 3rd round. Reese has missed badly on his only two top 10 picks. Didn't fix the OL and has never danced with a linebacker in his life. Is Eli the only reason for the past 5 years of failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohbeejay Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 If the Giants had lost those Super Bowls, would there be this much anger over a 2 time SB loser getting benched? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Ohbeejay said: If the Giants had lost those Super Bowls, would there be this much anger over a 2 time SB loser getting benched? Its more Eli getting benched for Geno and not giving Webb more practice reps. People believe they know what Geno is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celestial Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, Acgott said: Reese has missed badly on his only two top 10 picks. Didn't fix the OL and has never danced with a linebacker in his life. Is Eli the only reason for the past 5 years of failure? When I say Reese gets top 10 1st round talents, I mean Reese drafts top 10 elite potential players with his 1st round picks. Reese drafted Odell, Collins, Engram, Apple and Flowers. Both Apple and Flowers have played very well recently, despite some hiccups early. The OL has given Eli enough time. The OL is not the problem. Eli sees shadows and can't function under anything but perfect conditions. That's his decline, not the OL's fault. Reese has failed to draft linebackers but no GM is perfect. Other GMs draft good linebackers and fail elsewhere, like Gettleman did in Carolina. Gettleman's failure to draft wide receivers is why Cam Newton lost in the SB. Eli's decline is mainly the reason we failied in 2016 and 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celestial Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Acgott said: Its more Eli getting benched for Geno and not giving Webb more practice reps. People believe they know what Geno is. The thing is, people don't know what Geno is. They should just trust the Giants' coaching staff and stop acting like they have a clue.The same people think Webb, who was drafted in the 3rd round from the same school Goff went #1 from, is worth reps. There's a reason Webb went 3rd round and Goff went #1. Teams passed on the bigger, stronger Webb 3 times. The same teams don't pass on Goff even once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, celestial said: When I say Reese gets top 10 1st round talents, I mean Reese drafts top 10 elite potential players with his 1st round picks. Reese drafted Odell, Collins, Engram, Apple and Flowers. Both Apple and Flowers have played very well recently, despite some hiccups early. The OL has given Eli enough time. The OL is not the problem. Eli sees shadows and can't function under anything but perfect conditions. That's his decline, not the OL's fault. Reese has failed to draft linebackers but no GM is perfect. Other GMs draft good linebackers and fail elsewhere, like Gettleman did in Carolina. Gettleman's failure to draft wide receivers is why Cam Newton lost in the SB. Eli's decline is mainly the reason we failied in 2016 and 2017. McAdoo has benched Apple about 3 times this season including him being past 2 games game (One I'll excuse for his mom, but don't give me the practice excuse for the other). He will play this week because Giants lost 2 CBs. Flowers and Apple haven't played like elite players they were drafted to be. That's on Reese and McAdoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celestial Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Acgott said: McAdoo has benched Apple about 3 times this season including him being past 2 games game (One I'll excuse for his mom, but don't give me the practice excuse for the other). He will play this week because Giants lost 2 CBs. Flowers and Apple haven't played like elite players they were drafted to be. That's on Reese and McAdoo. Apple was benched for attitude reasons, not play. PFF ranks Apple very good over his last 2-3 starts. PFF also ranks Flowers as playing like a top LT over most of the season. From a play standpoint, both Apple and Flowers have shown great to elite potential early in their careers. Reese and McAdoo did well to draft them. Apple having issues because he's getting blamed for the offense's anemia has no bearing on anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, celestial said: Apple was benched for attitude reasons, not play. PFF ranks Apple very good over his last 2-3 starts. PFF also ranks Flowers as playing like a top LT over most of the season. Being benched 2 games for attitude reasons? Why did Flowers forget how to run block Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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