Geno Smith to Start

[ny92mike]

2 hours ago, celestial said:

McAdoo was promoted to help Eli's turnovers and extend Eli's career. It worked somewhat because Eli's turnovers did drop, and his career was lengthened, but ultimately nothing can stave's Eli decline forever. Eli is not simply not accurate enough when it comes to short passes, sees shadows in the pocket, is slow as molasses, is among the least hit QBs yet fumbles like his life depends on him, and holds back the offense. McAdoo is not to blame because Eli can't throw slants at a good enough clip to succeed in the West Coast. Rudolph is not to blame because Eli throws behind him. I'm tired of the excuses. I watch Eli miss screen passes and so does Mara. 

Next man up.

  

[mattbags2313]

16 hours ago, celestial said:

The thing is, people don't know what Geno is. They should just trust the Giants' coaching staff and stop acting like they have a clue.The same people think Webb, who was drafted in the 3rd round from the same school Goff went #1 from, is worth reps. There's a reason Webb went 3rd round and Goff went #1. Teams passed on the bigger, stronger Webb 3 times. The same teams don't pass on Goff even once.

reading through your posts, there were many times where I had to ask myself if you are a troll trying to aggravate people. You couldnt be more wrong with your assessment of anything. ill start from the top.

"Eli is not good"  This is easy. That just simply isnt true. Look at what he is currently playing with? Practice squad players across the board, a TE that drops everything, and a makeshift offensive line. Oh, and lets not forget our lack of any type of run game. Is Eli the same SB winning QB he was years ago where you can rest a game on his shoulders? No, but he can still be a winning QB with an actual football team around him. Eli not wanting to start is completely fine, those who think otherwise are wrong. It tarnishes his streak. Brett Farve could still "start" every game and just hand the ball off, then take a seat to continue his streak. Listen to Eli's interview, he repeatedly hammers 1 thing. "Team team team" He is a class act that no matter how many times this moron has thrown him under the bus, Eli hasnt said a bad word about anyone

"webb sucks" lol this one is funny. Based off what? a few preseason snaps? Remember how rough Eli's career started? He is a kid, let him play and get meaningful game reps in before you judge him. I guarantee you never watched him in college and dont know a thing about him. Where he was drafted as opposed to Goff means nothing. Literally nothing. Where was wilson drafted? Brady? want me to keep going? He was given as high as a late first round grade. That doesnt happen for no reason.I'm not saying he is Eli's successor, I still want a QB in the top5. However give him a chance before you say he sucks.

"Any 1st round QB can win with OBJ and Marhsall" that is fake news as well. Marshall will not be a NY Giant next year. His deal is 1 year with option for a 2nd year. He proved this year that he is done. He drops balls, can separate to save his life, and his speed is gone. Also continuing off your theme that where a QB is drafted is the determining factor of if a QB will be good, Paxton Lynch wouldnt do a thing for this thing. Neither would any QB drafted by the Jets, Browns, or Jags in the first over the past 8 years. Try scouting a player and actually formulating an opinion on them before you just say "1st round oh he is great"

Next."Has winning pedigree (except this season), runs a scheme that is successful in Green Bay (it merely requires an accurate QB that can use his legs, Hundley would do fine here), has a 11-5 season under his belt,  criticizes the right things in a quarterback (he was 100% right to say a QB needs to have quick feet, needs to navigate in a muddy pocket, etc), has gotten immediate first year production out of 1st round weapons like Engram, players seem to support him with Landon Collins' and OBJ publicly saying so, etc."

this is where I almost launched my laptop off the GW bridge. Winning pedigree??!!?!? HOW because he road the Aaron Rodgers horse into a head coaching job??? Oh I forgot, 1 season at 11-5 qualifies as winning pedigree. Did you watch a game last year? We won every single game that we won because of our DEFENSE. Our offense was one of the worst scoring offenses in football. Look at the score of every game, if we werent holding teams to below 20 points we were losing! We havent scored 30 points once! since he has been here. Bretty Hundley would do fine??? He is already in this so called "system" in GB and he isnt doing fine. Lastly, dont get me wrong, I love engram but his production is based off volume because our receivers are AWFUL. Aside Shep we are playing guys that wouldnt even be rostered on other teams. 

"different schedule and bad QB play" How dare you shoulder this on Eli. Again, WHAT DO YOU WANT HIM TO DO WITH THIS CURRENT OFFENSE!!! and how about for more than half the season our defense has been atrocious. Lemme guess, Eli's fault we gave up 50+ to the Rams and Jenkins whiffed on every tackle? Eli's fault that Blount ran all over us the first time we played Philly? Want me to keep going? OBJ was never healthy this year, we got off to a bad start and rushed him back in a panic which caused his ankle to snap in half. 0 offensive line 0 running game. Injuries everywhere..ALL ELI'S FAULT. Btw you want to know why over the past like 2 months Eli has had the quickest release in football?  Because it isnt because all of a sudden the line woke up. Watch a game, any game. Look at the conservative route patterns we are forced to run because the line cant freakin block long enough for anything more complex to develop. We were literally forced to chop the playbook in half. Lastly, football analysts across america have ripped apart Mcadoos scheme, I coach HS football and I swear to god we arguably run a more complex scheme. It couldnt be anymore vanilla. It is so basic it hurts. 

 

the whole Jerry Reese shouldnt be fired. COME ON. Reese wouldnt have a career if ELi didnt give him 2 SBs, Reese's whole career rests on Elis shoulders. Big deal he hit on OBJ and collins. His mid round selections are AWFUL. "misses on later picks but hits on important" What does that even mean, there is 7 rounds. Every pick is important. Speaking of important picks since you seem to only care about the first round. We have resigned ONE first round player since reese has been here..ONE!!! JPP! thats it!  That is an awful stat. First round picks are supposed to be being blocks. Ours leave or retire. Lets take a look at his mid round picks just to further my point 

Remember names like remeber names like bryan kehl? ramses barden who we freaking traded up to get? travis beckum? andre brown clint sintim? rhett bomar? In 2009 we picked in the 3rd round twice. Missed on both. i will keep going phillip dillard, mitch petrus, chad jones, marvin austin, jerrell jernigan, james brewer, reuban randle, jayron hosley, adrien robinson ( who reese named the JPP of TEs) brandon mosley, maontre moor, ryan nassib, cooper taylor,, andre williams, OO, mykkele thompson (drafted in 5th round, didnt even get a combine invite) Everyone else too earl to tell from drafts 2016 and 17. That list is solely players from rounds 2-4. A few from 5. It isnt worth naming 6 and 7 round picks because aside bradshaw  they were all useless. Sorry drafting OBJ, Collins, and Engram doesnt make up for years and years of garbage you seem to forget about. 

 

"people dont know what geno is" Im really starting to think you dont watch football. Btw he was drafted and played for a team called the NY Jets, they play in the same stadium as us. Geno smith has 28 TDs to 36 picks. Has a losing record by like 10 games, and has flat out been awful. Eli's playoff record is better than Genos regular season record. Everyone knows exactly who Geno Smith is. Gimme a break. And no I dont trust this garbage coaching staff. Also in the same post I love how you rip webb for being a 3rd round pick. A 3rd round pick??? thats is a high pick!! Guys drafted in that road have expectations. Go ahead and go back just like 3 years because thats all I need to prove my point. Look how many great players came from round 3. Come on man. Round 3, give me a break. 

 

Flowers has been better against the pass because he opened his stance more to help defend against speed rushing because his movement and quickness sucks so he needed to over compensate. However opening his stance has drastically hurt him against the run which was something he was actually good at. Also dont say he ranks as a top LT. He ranked in the high 30s out of 74 qualifiers. That is middle of the road. Eli apple not being apple to cover a dead animal has nothing to do with the offense at all. He has been under fire all season dating back to the lions game where he got toasted every single play. Ohio state teaches their DBs to play facing the receiver and not look back at the ball. (watch an ohio state game) That doesnt fly in the nfl, it hurts coverage ability. In the case where it actually works, you usually end up getting flagged, which he is a lot. The second a ref sees a DB not turn back the flag is usually already being pulled.

Everyone else i apologize for the lengthy post but I couldnt stand but to say something. I was being to think he was mcadoo or related to him

[GMENNATION]

@mattbags2313 preach brother! was literally thinking "this dude has to be a troll" before I read your post. The "winning pedigree" and "Hundley would do well here" is what really gave me a chuckle. Do you get credit for "winning" as a TE coach? That's what he was the only time he was on a Super bowl winning team. 

Brett Hundley is 1-4 as a starter with a 61.4% completion percentage with 5 TDs and 7 INTs, good for a 73.3 rating with Davante Adams, Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb as his WRs.

Eli Manning is 2-9 with a 62.5% completion percentage with 14 TDs and 7 INTs, good for a 84.1 rating with Sterling Shepard, Roger Lewis and Tavarres King as his receivers.

Eli has not been good this year and deserves some blame but the steaming pile of garbage this dude is claiming is laughable.

[Shockwave]

23 hours ago, celestial said:

McAdoo was promoted to help Eli's turnovers and extend Eli's career. It worked somewhat because Eli's turnovers did drop, and his career was lengthened, but ultimately nothing can stave's Eli decline forever. Eli is not simply not accurate enough when it comes to short passes, sees shadows in the pocket, is slow as molasses, is among the least hit QBs yet fumbles like his life depends on him, and holds back the offense. McAdoo is not to blame because Eli can't throw slants at a good enough clip to succeed in the West Coast. Rudolph is not to blame because Eli throws behind him. I'm tired of the excuses. I watch Eli miss screen passes and so does Mara. 

Next man up.

I don't share your harshness towards Eli but you're totally right here across the board on this post

[celestial]

7 hours ago, mattbags2313 said:

reading through your posts, there were many times where I had to ask myself if you are a troll trying to aggravate people. You couldnt be more wrong with your assessment of anything. ill start from the top.

"Eli is not good"  This is easy. That just simply isnt true. Look at what he is currently playing with? Practice squad players across the board, a TE that drops everything, and a makeshift offensive line. Oh, and lets not forget our lack of any type of run game. Is Eli the same SB winning QB he was years ago where you can rest a game on his shoulders? No, but he can still be a winning QB with an actual football team around him. Eli not wanting to start is completely fine, those who think otherwise are wrong. It tarnishes his streak. Brett Farve could still "start" every game and just hand the ball off, then take a seat to continue his streak. Listen to Eli's interview, he repeatedly hammers 1 thing. "Team team team" He is a class act that no matter how many times this moron has thrown him under the bus, Eli hasnt said a bad word about anyone

"webb sucks" lol this one is funny. Based off what? a few preseason snaps? Remember how rough Eli's career started? He is a kid, let him play and get meaningful game reps in before you judge him. I guarantee you never watched him in college and dont know a thing about him. Where he was drafted as opposed to Goff means nothing. Literally nothing. Where was wilson drafted? Brady? want me to keep going? He was given as high as a late first round grade. That doesnt happen for no reason.I'm not saying he is Eli's successor, I still want a QB in the top5. However give him a chance before you say he sucks.

"Any 1st round QB can win with OBJ and Marhsall" that is fake news as well. Marshall will not be a NY Giant next year. His deal is 1 year with option for a 2nd year. He proved this year that he is done. He drops balls, can separate to save his life, and his speed is gone. Also continuing off your theme that where a QB is drafted is the determining factor of if a QB will be good, Paxton Lynch wouldnt do a thing for this thing. Neither would any QB drafted by the Jets, Browns, or Jags in the first over the past 8 years. Try scouting a player and actually formulating an opinion on them before you just say "1st round oh he is great"

Next."Has winning pedigree (except this season), runs a scheme that is successful in Green Bay (it merely requires an accurate QB that can use his legs, Hundley would do fine here), has a 11-5 season under his belt,  criticizes the right things in a quarterback (he was 100% right to say a QB needs to have quick feet, needs to navigate in a muddy pocket, etc), has gotten immediate first year production out of 1st round weapons like Engram, players seem to support him with Landon Collins' and OBJ publicly saying so, etc."

this is where I almost launched my laptop off the GW bridge. Winning pedigree??!!?!? HOW because he road the Aaron Rodgers horse into a head coaching job??? Oh I forgot, 1 season at 11-5 qualifies as winning pedigree. Did you watch a game last year? We won every single game that we won because of our DEFENSE. Our offense was one of the worst scoring offenses in football. Look at the score of every game, if we werent holding teams to below 20 points we were losing! We havent scored 30 points once! since he has been here. Bretty Hundley would do fine??? He is already in this so called "system" in GB and he isnt doing fine. Lastly, dont get me wrong, I love engram but his production is based off volume because our receivers are AWFUL. Aside Shep we are playing guys that wouldnt even be rostered on other teams. 

"different schedule and bad QB play" How dare you shoulder this on Eli. Again, WHAT DO YOU WANT HIM TO DO WITH THIS CURRENT OFFENSE!!! and how about for more than half the season our defense has been atrocious. Lemme guess, Eli's fault we gave up 50+ to the Rams and Jenkins whiffed on every tackle? Eli's fault that Blount ran all over us the first time we played Philly? Want me to keep going? OBJ was never healthy this year, we got off to a bad start and rushed him back in a panic which caused his ankle to snap in half. 0 offensive line 0 running game. Injuries everywhere..ALL ELI'S FAULT. Btw you want to know why over the past like 2 months Eli has had the quickest release in football?  Because it isnt because all of a sudden the line woke up. Watch a game, any game. Look at the conservative route patterns we are forced to run because the line cant freakin block long enough for anything more complex to develop. We were literally forced to chop the playbook in half. Lastly, football analysts across america have ripped apart Mcadoos scheme, I coach HS football and I swear to god we arguably run a more complex scheme. It couldnt be anymore vanilla. It is so basic it hurts. 

 

the whole Jerry Reese shouldnt be fired. COME ON. Reese wouldnt have a career if ELi didnt give him 2 SBs, Reese's whole career rests on Elis shoulders. Big deal he hit on OBJ and collins. His mid round selections are AWFUL. "misses on later picks but hits on important" What does that even mean, there is 7 rounds. Every pick is important. Speaking of important picks since you seem to only care about the first round. We have resigned ONE first round player since reese has been here..ONE!!! JPP! thats it!  That is an awful stat. First round picks are supposed to be being blocks. Ours leave or retire. Lets take a look at his mid round picks just to further my point 

Remember names like remeber names like bryan kehl? ramses barden who we freaking traded up to get? travis beckum? andre brown clint sintim? rhett bomar? In 2009 we picked in the 3rd round twice. Missed on both. i will keep going phillip dillard, mitch petrus, chad jones, marvin austin, jerrell jernigan, james brewer, reuban randle, jayron hosley, adrien robinson ( who reese named the JPP of TEs) brandon mosley, maontre moor, ryan nassib, cooper taylor,, andre williams, OO, mykkele thompson (drafted in 5th round, didnt even get a combine invite) Everyone else too earl to tell from drafts 2016 and 17. That list is solely players from rounds 2-4. A few from 5. It isnt worth naming 6 and 7 round picks because aside bradshaw  they were all useless. Sorry drafting OBJ, Collins, and Engram doesnt make up for years and years of garbage you seem to forget about. 

 

"people dont know what geno is" Im really starting to think you dont watch football. Btw he was drafted and played for a team called the NY Jets, they play in the same stadium as us. Geno smith has 28 TDs to 36 picks. Has a losing record by like 10 games, and has flat out been awful. Eli's playoff record is better than Genos regular season record. Everyone knows exactly who Geno Smith is. Gimme a break. And no I dont trust this garbage coaching staff. Also in the same post I love how you rip webb for being a 3rd round pick. A 3rd round pick??? thats is a high pick!! Guys drafted in that road have expectations. Go ahead and go back just like 3 years because thats all I need to prove my point. Look how many great players came from round 3. Come on man. Round 3, give me a break. 

 

Flowers has been better against the pass because he opened his stance more to help defend against speed rushing because his movement and quickness sucks so he needed to over compensate. However opening his stance has drastically hurt him against the run which was something he was actually good at. Also dont say he ranks as a top LT. He ranked in the high 30s out of 74 qualifiers. That is middle of the road. Eli apple not being apple to cover a dead animal has nothing to do with the offense at all. He has been under fire all season dating back to the lions game where he got toasted every single play. Ohio state teaches their DBs to play facing the receiver and not look back at the ball. (watch an ohio state game) That doesnt fly in the nfl, it hurts coverage ability. In the case where it actually works, you usually end up getting flagged, which he is a lot. The second a ref sees a DB not turn back the flag is usually already being pulled.

Everyone else i apologize for the lengthy post but I couldnt stand but to say something. I was being to think he was mcadoo or related to him

You: "This is easy. That just simply isnt true. Look at what he is currently playing with? Practice squad players across the board, a TE that drops everything, and a makeshift offensive line. Oh, and lets not forget our lack of any type of run game. Is Eli the same SB winning QB he was years ago where you can rest a game on his shoulders? No, but he can still be a winning QB with an actual football team around him. Eli not wanting to start is completely fine, those who think otherwise are wrong. It tarnishes his streak. Brett Farve could still "start" every game and just hand the ball off, then take a seat to continue his streak. Listen to Eli's interview, he repeatedly hammers 1 thing. "Team team team" He is a class act that no matter how many times this moron has thrown him under the bus, Eli hasnt said a bad word about anyone"

^

Eli went 0-5 with Odell Beckham, Evan Engram and Brandon Marshall, 2 very good receivers and a good receiving tight end. Eli failed to play well even when propped up by some of the best weapons in the league. The whole, "Eli didn't get support", argument fails on this point alone. Eli at this point has proven he can't be a winning QB with some of the best weapons in the league. The Giants' coaching staff and GM agree. It doesn't matter what Eli says. It matters how he plays.

You: "lol this one is funny. Based off what? a few preseason snaps? Remember how rough Eli's career started? He is a kid, let him play and get meaningful game reps in before you judge him. I guarantee you never watched him in college and dont know a thing about him. Where he was drafted as opposed to Goff means nothing. Literally nothing. Where was wilson drafted? Brady? want me to keep going? He was given as high as a late first round grade. That doesnt happen for no reason.I'm not saying he is Eli's successor, I still want a QB in the top5. However give him a chance before you say he sucks."

^
QBs in the 3rd round virtually never work out. This is a statistical fact. Eli was a high 1st round pick. He is not comparable to Webb in terms of assessed ability. People thought Wilson was too small, that's why he was drafted in the 3rd. Brady shared time at Michigan and had terrible physique, that's part of the reason he was drafted so low. Webb has no such excuses. I said nothing wrong when I said Webb sucks either. I scouted him. He does suck.

 

You:"that is fake news as well. Marshall will not be a NY Giant next year. His deal is 1 year with option for a 2nd year. He proved this year that he is done. He drops balls, can separate to save his life, and his speed is gone. Also continuing off your theme that where a QB is drafted is the determining factor of if a QB will be good, Paxton Lynch wouldnt do a thing for this thing. Neither would any QB drafted by the Jets, Browns, or Jags in the first over the past 8 years. Try scouting a player and actually formulating an opinion on them before you just say "1st round oh he is great""

^
This isn't fake news. You have no idea if Marshall will be cut next year. Your saying so is, ironically, fake news. Marshall registered a 1000 yard season with Ryan Fitzpatrick in 2015. He looked like the same guy on the field. Eli looking away from BMarsh in order to avoid turnovers isn't Marshall's fault0 .Marshall may be cut, he may not, but in any case any good 1st round QB can still play well in Odell, Shepherd and Engram. When I said "1st round QB", I spoke of Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Finley, etc. Not busts like Paxton Lynch.

You: "this is where I almost launched my laptop off the GW bridge. Winning pedigree??!!?!? HOW because he road the Aaron Rodgers horse into a head coaching job??? Oh I forgot, 1 season at 11-5 qualifies as winning pedigree. Did you watch a game last year? We won every single game that we won because of our DEFENSE. Our offense was one of the worst scoring offenses in football. Look at the score of every game, if we werent holding teams to below 20 points we were losing! We havent scored 30 points once! since he has been here. Bretty Hundley would do fine??? He is already in this so called "system" in GB and he isnt doing fine. Lastly, dont get me wrong, I love engram but his production is based off volume because our receivers are AWFUL. Aside Shep we are playing guys that wouldnt even be rostered on other teams."

^
McAdoo has a winning pedigree. He has won everywhere has ever went. I watch all the games, and so does McAdoo and Reese. The offense is bad because Eli is bad. That's the conclusion. You disagree, cool. We'll see what happens on Sunday.

You:" How dare you shoulder this on Eli. Again, WHAT DO YOU WANT HIM TO DO WITH THIS CURRENT OFFENSE!!! and how about for more than half the season our defense has been atrocious. Lemme guess, Eli's fault we gave up 50+ to the Rams and Jenkins whiffed on every tackle? Eli's fault that Blount ran all over us the first time we played Philly? Want me to keep going? OBJ was never healthy this year, we got off to a bad start and rushed him back in a panic which caused his ankle to snap in half. 0 offensive line 0 running game. Injuries everywhere..ALL ELI'S FAULT. Btw you want to know why over the past like 2 months Eli has had the quickest release in football?  Because it isnt because all of a sudden the line woke up. Watch a game, any game. Look at the conservative route patterns we are forced to run because the line cant freakin block long enough for anything more complex to develop. We were literally forced to chop the playbook in half. Lastly, football analysts across america have ripped apart Mcadoos scheme, I coach HS football and I swear to god we arguably run a more complex scheme. It couldnt be anymore vanilla. It is so basic it hurts. "

^

Eli played 5 games with OBJ, Brandon Marshall and Engram. Eli went 0-5. Eli can't play against a strong schedule with and without weapons. He proved it this year in spades. The defense only looks bad because Eli keeps going 3-and out. Eli injured both OBJ and Brandon, but even before then he couldn't win with them. Eli has looked like a backup QB this year when we had good protection and/or a running game. If Eli is not to blame, Geno Smith will suck. If Geno Smith plays well, Eli is to blame. We will see this Sunday.

 

You: "the whole Jerry Reese shouldnt be fired. COME ON. Reese wouldnt have a career if ELi didnt give him 2 SBs, Reese's whole career rests on Elis shoulders. Big deal he hit on OBJ and collins. His mid round selections are AWFUL. "misses on later picks but hits on important" What does that even mean, there is 7 rounds. Every pick is important. Speaking of important picks since you seem to only care about the first round. We have resigned ONE first round player since reese has been here..ONE!!! JPP! thats it!  That is an awful stat. First round picks are supposed to be being blocks. Ours leave or retire. Lets take a look at his mid round picks just to further my point"

^
Jerry Reese's career rests on the top defense he built for those SBs. Eli played well but the defense was better. Reese hits on franchise level players, which matters more than late picks, most of whom are statistically projected to not be that great anyway. Every pick does not hold the same importance. First round picks matter the most. We have a top 10 defense right now and plenty of Reese-drafted elite talent. Your logic is not persuasive. We will see this Sunday how Engram, Collins, Apple and Flowers play.

^

You: "Im really starting to think you dont watch football. Btw he was drafted and played for a team called the NY Jets, they play in the same stadium as us. Geno smith has 28 TDs to 36 picks. Has a losing record by like 10 games, and has flat out been awful. Eli's playoff record is better than Genos regular season record. Everyone knows exactly who Geno Smith is. Gimme a break. And no I dont trust this garbage coaching staff. Also in the same post I love how you rip webb for being a 3rd round pick. A 3rd round pick??? thats is a high pick!! Guys drafted in that road have expectations. Go ahead and go back just like 3 years because thats all I need to prove my point. Look how many great players came from round 3. Come on man. Round 3, give me a break. "

^
I watch football like Giants' coaches do, and Giants' coaches seem to agree with me. Geno Smith took the worst weapons in the league to 8-8 in his first season. His "28 TD-36 INT" ratio comes from playing in a tough rookie situation with no weapons. He has a 90+ QB rating over his last 5 starts. He is understandably getting his start and you don't know what he is. We'll see this Sunday.

You: "Flowers has been better against the pass because he opened his stance more to help defend against speed rushing because his movement and quickness sucks so he needed to over compensate. However opening his stance has drastically hurt him against the run which was something he was actually good at. Also dont say he ranks as a top LT. He ranked in the high 30s out of 74 qualifiers. That is middle of the road. Eli apple not being apple to cover a dead animal has nothing to do with the offense at all. He has been under fire all season dating back to the lions game where he got toasted every single play. Ohio state teaches their DBs to play facing the receiver and not look back at the ball. (watch an ohio state game) That doesnt fly in the nfl, it hurts coverage ability. In the case where it actually works, you usually end up getting flagged, which he is a lot. The second a ref sees a DB not turn back the flag is usually already being pulled"

^
I may have misread Flowers' overall LT position on PFF, but I remember he has played average to fantastic over most of the season. That is what's important. The quick passing game hasn't changed since Game 1 this season so Flowers' improvement is down to his improvement, not anything to do with McAdoo accommodating him. If Flowers has improved and is playing well, that's all I need to prove my point Flowers is a good pick. Moreover, Eli Apple has played well over his last couple of games. He is under fire because some fans blame him rather than Eli going 3-and-out and fumbling every game. But we will see this Sunday.

[celestial]

25 minutes ago, Shockey1979 said:

I don't share your harshness towards Eli but you're totally right here across the board on this post

Thanks for your honest support, brother! I apologize for the perceived harshness towards Eli. I don't mean to be harsh. I just have a caustic and matter-of-fact nature.  I'm sure you understand how very hard this is for all of us. I was beginning to think I'm taking crazy pills, but you reassure me. 

 

5 hours ago, GMENNATION said:

@mattbags2313 preach brother! was literally thinking "this dude has to be a troll" before I read your post. The "winning pedigree" and "Hundley would do well here" is what really gave me a chuckle. Do you get credit for "winning" as a TE coach? That's what he was the only time he was on a Super bowl winning team. 

Brett Hundley is 1-4 as a starter with a 61.4% completion percentage with 5 TDs and 7 INTs, good for a 73.3 rating with Davante Adams, Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb as his WRs.

Eli Manning is 2-9 with a 62.5% completion percentage with 14 TDs and 7 INTs, good for a 84.1 rating with Sterling Shepard, Roger Lewis and Tavarres King as his receivers.

Eli has not been good this year and deserves some blame but the steaming pile of garbage this dude is claiming is laughable.

McAdoo does have a winning pedigree. Hundley would do well in McAddo's scheme. McAdoo's scheme is--and this might come as a shocker--basically an adaptation of Green Bay's scheme. Hundley threw 3 TDs in his last game in Green Bay's offensive scheme. I didn't mention Hundley to say he is good or would be a long term starter here, I mentioned him only to say he fits the scheme and could be a stopgap starter here like in Green Bay. After all, if Hundley can be a stopgap for Aaron Rodgers, surely he can be a stopgap for Eli Manning. The fact you think Hundley playing well here in McAdoo's scheme is absurd, while Hundley plays well in place of Rodger's, is your bias or misunderstanding showing.

To address your stats argument, the most important stats for predicting wins, and QB performance, isn't TD-INT ratio, completion %, or QB rating. The most important stats correlating with wins and QB performance is Yards Per Attempt (YPA) and Adjusted Yards per Attempt (A/YA).

Eli Manning is 2.9 with a YPA ranked 31st in the league.

Most poignantly, Eli Manning is 2-9 with an A/YA of 6.00, ranked 33rd in the league, behind Blake Bortles, Ryan Fitzpatrick, etc. Closest to Trevor Siemian, who was benched in Denver.

[Shockwave]

^ And this is where we differ. Mcadoo's "scheme" is the worst watered down vanilla iteration of a west coast based offense I have ever witnessed. It's predictable, the plays are poorly designed and his playcalling is horrible. Eli being inaccurate does make things worse no doubt but even last year it wasn't the offense winning games. That 11-5 come mostly from the elite year the defense put up. The offense was mostly healthy throughout the season land was only was 25th in yards and 26th in points with arguably the best WR in the league in his prime. That's pathetic. Some of it is the Oline... some of it is Eli... but a big damn piece of the puzzle is the piss poor scheme, gameplanning, play design and playcalling. Mcadoo is NOT the offensive genius he was supposed to be and he's gotta go.

[Ohbeejay]

Probably not fair to judge McAdoo until we see him with another QB.

[Acgott]

1 hour ago, Ohbeejay said:

Probably not fair to judge McAdoo until we see him with another QB.

We seen him mismanage a bunch of things 

[Ohbeejay]

1 hour ago, Acgott said:

We seen him mismanage a bunch of things 

We also saw him go 11-5, and take the Giants to the playoffs for the first time in 5 years.

[Kip Smithers]

6 hours ago, Ohbeejay said:

We also saw him go 11-5, and take the Giants to the playoffs for the first time in 5 years.

Yeah last year he was getting praised all over the place and now he is a bum? Like you don't all of a sudden make that drastic change and as far as play calling, Maybe it's hard for people to grasp this, playcalling is a product of what you have around you. So in first year McAdoo installs this new system, success. So over the offseason the scheme was evaluated and were able to see how they can defend against it. Next season more success. And so basically 2 years after it was installed defenses FINALLY figured out how to defend against it.

example:

McAdoo has given ownership exactly what it craved: an injection of youth, fresh ideas mixed in with many of Tom Coughlin’s core values and, superseding all else, a winning record.

[Acgott]

8 hours ago, Ohbeejay said:

We also saw him go 11-5, and take the Giants to the playoffs for the first time in 5 years.

Or we can say Spags took a loaded defense to the playoffs. I’m not sure what he did. There is always that fluke season. We seen many teams go through it. McAdoo never takes accountanbillty. Throws way too many players under the bus. He is the reason our team is an epic disaster. He hasn’t done anything right.

[mattbags2313]

15 hours ago, celestial said:

Thanks for your honest support, brother! I apologize for the perceived harshness towards Eli. I don't mean to be harsh. I just have a caustic and matter-of-fact nature.  I'm sure you understand how very hard this is for all of us. I was beginning to think I'm taking crazy pills, but you reassure me. 

 

McAdoo does have a winning pedigree. Hundley would do well in McAddo's scheme. McAdoo's scheme is--and this might come as a shocker--basically an adaptation of Green Bay's scheme. Hundley threw 3 TDs in his last game in Green Bay's offensive scheme. I didn't mention Hundley to say he is good or would be a long term starter here, I mentioned him only to say he fits the scheme and could be a stopgap starter here like in Green Bay. After all, if Hundley can be a stopgap for Aaron Rodgers, surely he can be a stopgap for Eli Manning. The fact you think Hundley playing well here in McAdoo's scheme is absurd, while Hundley plays well in place of Rodger's, is your bias or misunderstanding showing.

To address your stats argument, the most important stats for predicting wins, and QB performance, isn't TD-INT ratio, completion %, or QB rating. The most important stats correlating with wins and QB performance is Yards Per Attempt (YPA) and Adjusted Yards per Attempt (A/YA).

Eli Manning is 2.9 with a YPA ranked 31st in the league.

Most poignantly, Eli Manning is 2-9 with an A/YA of 6.00, ranked 33rd in the league, behind Blake Bortles, Ryan Fitzpatrick, etc. Closest to Trevor Siemian, who was benched in Denver.

Going off what Shockey said this is a huge issue you are missing, Mcadoos scheme is very very bad.  Like I said it has been ripped apart by many football analysts and former coaches that know way more than us. You keep preaching how it worked in GB. 1. No west coast offense is the same as another and 2. HE WAS A QB COACH!!!  for a single year! and before that he was a freaking TE coach. He had nothing to do with play calling for any of the time there and as a TE coach he had nothing to do with scheming.  So stop hammering this green bay point. you are forgetting they also have rodgers. Guys like him are a dime a dozen, and they have always had more weapons than us and better offensive lines. Emphasis on the offensive line. 

Another massive point you are overlooking, who was play calling for the giants when they were 0-5. Mcadoo. He was BAD, teams saw what were doing a mile away, and it was very very basic. Not only that, he is a head coach! Him attempting to play both roles not only hurt the offense but hurt the whole team. From what I've heard (I have a buddy that works in player personnel) Players at times felt there was two HCs. Spags for defense and Ben for offense. That isnt good at all, the whole team needs to be on the same page. I think you are really selling short the stability and control these coaches have over this team, game planning aside

[mattbags2313]

16 hours ago, celestial said:

 

Eli went 0-5 with Odell Beckham, Evan Engram and Brandon Marshall, 2 very good receivers and a good receiving tight end. Eli failed to play well even when propped up by some of the best weapons in the league. The whole, "Eli didn't get support", argument fails on this point alone. Eli at this point has proven he can't be a winning QB with some of the best weapons in the league. The Giants' coaching staff and GM agree. It doesn't matter what Eli says. It matters how he plays.

Read my point above regarding the offense and first 5 games. You also must of missed my point about our "weapons" OBJ was never healthy. Even when he was active he was in and out every play. Never got in sync with Eli. That goes back to coaching. Why? HE WAS RUSHED BACK. Remember like week 2 or whatever it was when he said the original timeline was 6-8 weeks? well yeah. We freaked out because the offense was lost and rushed him and now look. Remember the lions game when he literally only came in on third down? Then would hop off on one foot? He might be OBJ but he is still human. Ben was treating him like he was the second coming of christ for the offense. "maybe if i toss OBj out there he will take an 8 yard slant for 70 yards to the house" He shouldnt of comeback. At the time engram was a rookie in his first 5 games that didnt have a full slate of snaps game in and game out because he cant block. Not saying he wont be great or isnt good already cause I Love the kid, but that is a lot to ask of a rookie TE. Marshall is dead dude come on. You are seriously using 2015 as an example? That was two years ago before he had a full season (last year) marred by injuries. Look at his play alone this year, Eli's fault he dropped passes that hit him in the numbers? No hes been doing that since he was a rookie. He has led the league in drops before. Eli's fault he cant separate? absolutely not. Father time catches up with everyone. Season plagued by injury last year, gets hurt in pre-season this year while trying to get in sync with a new QB and learn a new offense so he then losses reps. None of that is good. Now add in a 34 year old receiver coming off a season ending and surgery needing injury, I'm willing to bet money he isnt back. What has he shown to prove otherwise? Again not his fault. He is old and injuries are starting to pile up. Happens to everyone.

 

QBs in the 3rd round virtually never work out. This is a statistical fact. Eli was a high 1st round pick. He is not comparable to Webb in terms of assessed ability. People thought Wilson was too small, that's why he was drafted in the 3rd. Brady shared time at Michigan and had terrible physique, that's part of the reason he was drafted so low. Webb has no such excuses. I said nothing wrong when I said Webb sucks either. I scouted him. He does suck.

Please find this stat then. And I would love to hear what your scouting process is. 

This isn't fake news. You have no idea if Marshall will be cut next year. Your saying so is, ironically, fake news. Marshall registered a 1000 yard season with Ryan Fitzpatrick in 2015. He looked like the same guy on the field. Eli looking away from BMarsh in order to avoid turnovers isn't Marshall's fault0 .Marshall may be cut, he may not, but in any case any good 1st round QB can still play well in Odell, Shepherd and Engram. When I said "1st round QB", I spoke of Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Finley, etc. Not busts like Paxton Lynch.

See above about marshall. Bringing up 2015 like it was last year. When next year comes around that is 3 years ago and he will be 34. You have no idea if any of those QBs will be good. If we go back to when lynch was drafted you would of categorized him the same. Just cause a QB comes in the first round doesnt mean they will be good. That is obvious. Also I dont want to start a QB right away. Eli is still a great player attitude and football IQ wise to learn behind. It would only benefit us if he sat for a bit.

McAdoo has a winning pedigree. He has won everywhere has ever went. I watch all the games, and so does McAdoo and Reese. The offense is bad because Eli is bad. That's the conclusion. You disagree, cool. We'll see what happens on Sunday.

See above about mcadoo. Reese inherited that first SB roster so please gimme a break. Reese won because of Eli. Reese has ignored positions up and down this roster for years and publicly stated he doesnt value certain positions. Insanity.

 This is all going back to you not knowing how to actually evaluate a scheme which is fine but trust me. This scheme is a torn down skeleton of what is done in GB and again read above in my last post why that is irrelevant because mcadoo was a TE coach for 90% of his time there. Then he had aaron rodgers for a year. Basically getting paid to do nothing, rodgers probably taught him more than he taught rodgers. The packers and rodgers have a winning pedigree. Not the guy that was responsible for jermichael finley and rich rodgers. Lets go back a bit further. He was with the saints in 2004..they went 8-8 and the niners in 2005..they went 4-12. Had 1 winning season with the giants where the offense was in the pits of the league and the defense was great. So please take your winning pedigree and run it down the road 

Eli played 5 games with OBJ, Brandon Marshall and Engram. Eli went 0-5. Eli can't play against a strong schedule with and without weapons. He proved it this year in spades. The defense only looks bad because Eli keeps going 3-and out. Eli injured both OBJ and Brandon, but even before then he couldn't win with them. Eli has looked like a backup QB this year when we had good protection and/or a running game. If Eli is not to blame, Geno Smith will suck. If Geno Smith plays well, Eli is to blame. We will see this Sunday.

Again see my point above regarding OBJ and the rest of the bunch. (BTW OBJ didnt play week 1 so no not 5 games) Do you not know how injuries work either? OBJ had a horrible sprain which is worse than a break and also very easy to break. He shouldnt of been playing to begin with. He himself gave a timeline up to 2 months!

Jerry Reese's career rests on the top defense he built for those SBs. Eli played well but the defense was better. Reese hits on franchise level players, which matters more than late picks, most of whom are statistically projected to not be that great anyway. Every pick does not hold the same importance. First round picks matter the most. We have a top 10 defense right now and plenty of Reese-drafted elite talent. Your logic is not persuasive. We will see this Sunday how Engram, Collins, Apple and Flowers play.

ok. In both superbowls and this is a statistical fact i can pull up. Our secondary was among the WORST in football. We were middle of the pack at 16 in points allowed in 2007. Our defense was good and worked because we got to the QB like no other. Who got to the QB?  well in 2007 it was tuck, osi, strahan, kiwi and coefield. NONE of them had anything to do with reese. He inherited the strength of our defense. He inherited gabril wilson and james butler. His first pick as GM? A 25 year old corner with chronic ankle issues named aaron ross. He worked out great. Second super bowl more of the same. Our defense however wasnt as good as 2007 statisically, if you remember it was that 3 headed monster at WR that got us there with nicks, smith and manningham. I will give reese credit for that I'm not bias but dont discredit the guy that won MVP and won the game for us. That throw to manningham was incredible. Not to mention if you remember that season Eli was a wizard in the 4th quarter breaking records left and right for 4th quarter comebacks. And to your point on franchise level players which i agree top drafted guys should be building blocks. Why have we resigned only 1 1st round pick in the 10 years Reese has been here? Awful awful awful stat. 

TEAM	PLAYERS
Green Bay Packers	13
Pittsburgh Steelers	12
New England Patriots	11
Dallas Cowboys	10
Detroit Lions	9
Seattle Seahawks	9
Atlanta Falcons	8
Miami Dolphins	7
Houston Texans	7
Kansas City Chiefs	7
Oakland Raiders	6
New York Giants	4

 this was used in a another thread.

The chart above is 2016 playoff teams ranked by the number of players they drafted between 2009 and 2013 who were on their roster for at least one snap last season.

This should be the core of most teams' rosters, players who are finishing up their rookie deals and guys who get signed to extensions after developing into homegrown starters.

that is exactly my point^

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/Barnwellx171009/lessons-winless-2017-new-york-giants-collapse-next-how-got-here-why-trouble-nfl     here is the whole article. Broken down perfectly. Way to many players on 1 and done deals.

 

16 hours ago, celestial said:

 

 

[Kip Smithers]

3 hours ago, Acgott said:

Or we can say Spags took a loaded defense to the playoffs. I’m not sure what he did. There is always that fluke season. We seen many teams go through it. McAdoo never takes accountanbillty. Throws way too many players under the bus. He is the reason our team is an epic disaster. He hasn’t done anything right.

So last season was a fluke (with hindsight bias) but this season isn't? Lol ok.