BAConrad Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 9 hours ago, Jakuvious said: This has already been debunked a few posts above. There are not that many players that are going to get extensions that expensive that quickly. There's a solid 7-10 players who will get bigger deals in the next 2 years. Maybe more. So no, it wasn't debunked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAConrad Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: I mean, he contributes to all that...not sure I’d call him a main cause. I think you’re really discounting Agholar and Wentz’ improvement as players if you feel that they’re doing what they’re doing because of Jeffery. I’m not really all that confident the Eagles would be facing “8-9” man boxes without Jeffery, either... Obviously Alshon isn't the magical reason for Wentz's improvement. But he has been the best receiver on our team. He's easily our most valuable skill player. 2 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: Never said that had nothing to do with Jeffery. Having 3 guys at 10 TDs sort of just reinforces the point that maybe you shouldn’t be what I consider overpaying for one. Makes zero sense. 2 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: I already said that I liked them keeping the weapon for Wentz. And yes, you suggested that “there’s no reason” why Wentz-Jeffery-Ertz will be even more dangerous in the ongoing years, when there’s a litany of possibilities. What are these litany of possibilities? That they might get injured? lol 2 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: This was debunked. Plus, I’m not going to listen to every fan base that over pays/pays a lot for a guy that says “this contract won’t look bad in a few years”, it’s a cop out. No, it wasn't debunked. There's easily 7-10 players who, 2 years from now, will be making more than Jeffrey. Do you just not pay attention to the free agency market and how contracts dictate it? Come March, there will be players signed at every position every day that become one of the highest paid, only because the ones who are getting paid less are still waiting to sign new deals later. And based off reactions in this thread from almost a dozen other non-Eagles fans, you are in the minority in your view of this deal. So it's not just Eagles fans being biased 2 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: My issue is that - based off of his offseason - he wasn’t getting an expensive, long term deal that I assume he wanted. He was given a one year deal to prove his worth. The season isn’t even over and he has looked good but not elite-good (especially when a huge knock is his health), but now he’s being paid 7th. I just think it’s steep. I don’t know, but I’d be curious to see. So much wrong in this post. I don't even know where to begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, BAConrad said: I mean, yeah sure, he hasn't had as much of an impact as our young stud QB who has been playing at an MVP-level all season. Are you going to point out that the sky is blue, or that grass is green next? Definitely an important thing to point out, given the popular sentiment that apparently Jeffery is the reason for the offensive success this year. Perhaps Blount should make 12m this year too? 2 minutes ago, BAConrad said: Marvin Jones actually helps prove our point in favor of Jeffrey, so thanks for that. Jones was signed to a 5 year/40 million dollar deal after putting up 18/201/1, 51/712/10, and 65/816/4 with Cincinnati. Did that kind of production warrant 8 million a year? Teams pay players based on what they can do for them in the future. Based off of what Alshon has done in Chicago, and how he's gotten significantly better week to week with us, it's completely logical to think that he will live up to this kind of deal. He produced that as the #2 receiver to A.J. Green in offenses that, IIRC, were run first. Big difference there, Fred. It’s also completely logical that a receiver with an inconsistent track record will continue to be inconsistent. 2 minutes ago, BAConrad said: What makes it seem like he could have been had for less? Do you know something that everyone else in football doesn't? Calm down, Fred. I’m looking at the context and stating my opinion. Never said I had some insider information or that my opinion is 100% fact. 2 minutes ago, BAConrad said: Based on past free agency periods and the abundance of contracts that continue to get higher and higher, it actually is pretty safe to say that Alshon would have most likely been able to make 15 million or more a year from another team in desperate need of a #1 WR. Eh, that’s a stretch. Assuming Jeffery ends up around where he’s expected to statistically, 15m/year might be a stretch. I think he’d get right about what he got with the Eagles. Even then, other teams overpaying doesn’t justify another. 2 minutes ago, BAConrad said: And the sole fact that you think that his production is the only thing that was taken into account, or even should be taken into account, when the Eagles resigned him shows that you have little insight into how teams decide what to pay their players. Re-signed.* But I’ll repeat myself: never said production was the only thing taken into account. I just don’t feel Jeffery’s production justifies the deal. I also feel his impact is much less than you and a few others are making it out to be, so I’m not seeing the extra $. Disagree with you or your team’s decisions? Must know nothing about football! Since I have such little insight about football and contracts, can you remind me which receiver has produced as little as Jeffery (prior to their signing) and gotten this high of a contract? I suppose your rebuttal will be that the market has inflated things, and you aren’t wrong, but every receiver above him contractually has produced (Brown, Jones, Hopkins, Green, Thomas, Dez). Several below him have (Fitz, Baldwin, Sanders, Desean). Some below him haven’t (Allen, Austin, Hurns). Obviously if Jeffery plays the next 3 years at a top 3 level, it’ll be a steal of a contract. If he goes down with an injury or underperforms, it’ll be a dud. Anything can happen. But atm, it’s an over pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 20 minutes ago, BAConrad said: 10 minutes ago, BAConrad said: Obviously Alshon isn't the magical reason for Wentz's improvement. But he has been the best receiver on our team. He's easily our most valuable skill player. Being the most valuable skill player on a team with several solid or good skill players =/= getting paid top 7 at your position. Quote Makes zero sense. Makes none if you don’t want it to. It stands to reason that Wentz and the offense don’t need a big time WR to be successful. Quote What are these litany of possibilities? That they might get injured? lol Well see, in sports there’s this thing called regression. Whether it be at the QB position, the run game, the line, or the receivers. Sometimes these things happen unexpectedly - in fact - it often happens this way. Quote No, it wasn't debunked. There's easily 7-10 players who, 2 years from now, will be making more than Jeffrey. Do you just not pay attention to the free agency market and how contracts dictate it? As I said, other teams over paying isn’t a justification for over paying. Teams often avoid doing this for all but the most essential players. And yes, it was debunked, unless you expect all those guys to be making what they’re making in 2 years. It also doesn’t really change how the contract should be viewed right now. Quote And based off reactions in this thread from almost a dozen other non-Eagles fans, you are in the minority in your view of this deal. So it's not just Eagles fans being biased You make it sound like I crapped all over this deal lol Go re-read the original post. Quote So much wrong in this post. I don't even know where to begin. Think it’s steep. Must know nothing about football EDIT: I’ll let you get the last word in and then bow out, I’m not really interested in spending much more time debating whether or not Alshon Jeffery deserves 13m/year or maybe 11 or 12m/year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 7 hours ago, Nabbs4u said: Debunked by whom? FA WR in the next two seasons 2018 Watkins, Landry, Adams, Robinson 2019 OBJ, Evans, Nelson, Cooks, Benjamin, Tate, How about teams Trying to lock up other WR before hitting FA in 20' like Cooper, Hill, Parker, ? The 6 bolded are Guaranteed to get more money IMO then Alshon which instantly puts him around 13th. Tate and Robinson might get more just because that's how NFL contracts work, they increase year in year out! Tyreek? Amari? Not as far fetched or debunked as you claim it to be! By me. Jordy Nelson is not getting $13M per year. He'll be a 33 year old WR coming off of a season where he's on pace for less than 600 receiving yards. He'll get a decent contract, but not that much. Larry Fitzgerald isn't even getting that much in a similar situation in Arizona. Barring a really obscene overpay, I don't see Landry getting that either. And I see none of the non-bolded players getting that much. Your claim was mid-teens, maybe 20s. That means you're talking about 8 - 15 players passing him. You aren't even listing that many possible guys, let alone that many "guarantees," and a few of your guarantees are even questionable. At max you've listed 13 so far, and that requires some teams to give massive extensions early (Hill, Parker), give more money to guys less productive this season than Jeffery (Landry, Watkins, Nelson, Benjamin), and it still wouldn't put it in the 20s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 50 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: By me. Jordy Nelson is not getting $13M per year. He'll be a 33 year old WR coming off of a season where he's on pace for less than 600 receiving yards. He'll get a decent contract, but not that much. Larry Fitzgerald isn't even getting that much in a similar situation in Arizona. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/larry-fitzgerald-966/ You might want to check your Fitz numbers again? That was also a contract created a few years ago when salaries were even lower. Jordy absolutely will get paid. Maybe not some crazy 6 yr type deal but he's going nowhere as long as he remains Rodgers favorite target. You talking about his numbers in a down year when the QB throwing the ball the past 6-7 weeks is pathetic ,is a joke. Nelson was still Nelson when ARod was there catching 6TD in his first 4gms! NFL contracts will increase for players whether deserving or not the Market will dictate that. Contracts will not get smaller in the future. So what you believe a players worth means very little. GM's will do what the market dictates! Which happens to be escalating salaries! Agree to disagree. Revisit this in 2 yrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqOptic Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 25 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/larry-fitzgerald-966/ You might want to check your Fitz numbers again? That was also a contract created a few years ago when salaries were even lower. Jordy absolutely will get paid. Maybe not some crazy 6 yr type deal but he's going nowhere as long as he remains Rodgers favorite target. You talking about his numbers in a down year when the QB throwing the ball the past 6-7 weeks is pathetic ,is a joke. Nelson was still Nelson when ARod was there catching 6TD in his first 4gms! NFL contracts will increase for players whether deserving or not the Market will dictate that. Contracts will not get smaller in the future. So what you believe a players worth means very little. GM's will do what the market dictates! Which happens to be escalating salaries! Agree to disagree. Revisit this in 2 yrs. Jordy Nelson is 30-freakin'-3... He's not getting a decent deal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqOptic Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Here's how I find these to work... If you see a bunch of people for the fanbase of the respective signing continuing to post reasons why it's a great signing, then it usually isn't. Most great signings usually come with topics where most people feel that way. That's not to say it cannot turn out to be a great signing (See: Antonio Brown contact topic in 2011) but at the time it doesn't appear to be one. That's not to say Jeffrey isn't a good Receiver or anything like that... But 7th highest paid WR? Birds slightly overpaid but moves have been working for Howie Roseman as of late so trust this process I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAConrad Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, BlaqOptic said: Here's how I find these to work... If you see a bunch of people for the fanbase of the respective signing continuing to post reasons why it's a great signing, then it usually isn't. Most great signings usually come with topics where most people feel that way. That's not to say it cannot turn out to be a great signing (See: Antonio Brown contact topic in 2011) but at the time it doesn't appear to be one. That's not to say Jeffrey isn't a good Receiver or anything like that... But 7th highest paid WR? Birds slightly overpaid but moves have been working for Howie Roseman as of late so trust this process I guess? Have you read the entire thread? Maybe my eyes are just homers so they skew everythingI read into pro-Eagles propaganda.....but maybe not since I see 75%+ of non-Eagles fans in this thread calling it a good signing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAConrad Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, BlaqOptic said: Jordy Nelson is 30-freakin'-3... He's not getting a decent deal.... He won't get paid more than 10 mil a year. Maybe 8 if GB really wants to keep him. With all the talent set to hit FA in the next couple years (most likely 2019 since the guys from the 1st round in 2014 like Watkins, OBJ, Evans, Parker, etc have team-options in their rookie deals), and with his age, I agree with you about Jordy. But as far as the other guys @Nabbs4u listed...I think they'll be paid either what Jeffrey got or more. You have to remember that each position's contracts usually use the first guy at their position who gets paid as a starting off point. IE Jeffrey's contract probably will set the tone for this upcoming class of FA WRs. Robinson, Parker, Landry, Watkins and all the other WRs that are a tier below OBJ and Evans will absolutely get 13-15 million a year at LEAST. Robinson I could see taking a path similar to Jeffrey's...in that he takes a 1 year deal for about 12-14 million, since he will be coming off injury. But then again, he might even get a long term deal from a desperate team. He won't even be 25 until August of next year, and all it will take is one team to fall in love with his 2015 season and the fact that he's so young. Landry will absolutely get paid. Barring some serious off the field trouble in which he faces a lengthy suspension of course. But you can't just assume he will. Guy just turned 25 and has 75 catches this year with 637 yards and 6 TDs, and is coming off back to back 1100+ yard seasons with 110 catches in 2015 and 94 in 2016. If the Rams want to resign Watkins, they're gonna have to pay him more than Robert Woods. So that right there means he's going to command more than 10 million annually. And he'll likely get more, especially if they shed the Austin contract. So, @Jakuvious...I just stated why the guys you listed will likely get paid as much or more. Balls in your court Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 3 hours ago, BAConrad said: He won't get paid more than 10 mil a year. Maybe 8 if GB really wants to keep him. With all the talent set to hit FA in the next couple years (most likely 2019 since the guys from the 1st round in 2014 like Watkins, OBJ, Evans, Parker, etc have team-options in their rookie deals), and with his age, I agree with you about Jordy. But as far as the other guys @Nabbs4u listed...I think they'll be paid either what Jeffrey got or more. You have to remember that each position's contracts usually use the first guy at their position who gets paid as a starting off point. IE Jeffrey's contract probably will set the tone for this upcoming class of FA WRs. Robinson, Parker, Landry, Watkins and all the other WRs that are a tier below OBJ and Evans will absolutely get 13-15 million a year at LEAST. Robinson I could see taking a path similar to Jeffrey's...in that he takes a 1 year deal for about 12-14 million, since he will be coming off injury. But then again, he might even get a long term deal from a desperate team. He won't even be 25 until August of next year, and all it will take is one team to fall in love with his 2015 season and the fact that he's so young. Landry will absolutely get paid. Barring some serious off the field trouble in which he faces a lengthy suspension of course. But you can't just assume he will. Guy just turned 25 and has 75 catches this year with 637 yards and 6 TDs, and is coming off back to back 1100+ yard seasons with 110 catches in 2015 and 94 in 2016. If the Rams want to resign Watkins, they're gonna have to pay him more than Robert Woods. So that right there means he's going to command more than 10 million annually. And he'll likely get more, especially if they shed the Austin contract. So, @Jakuvious...I just stated why the guys you listed will likely get paid as much or more. Balls in your court Jeffery's contract will help set a price point for future negotiations, yes, but that doesn't mean that a bunch of worse WRs are then going to get paid more. Robinson I will give you as a maybe. I'm fine with the idea that a team may overpay for him on the open market based on what he did 3 years ago. But it's not a guarantee. That production you list for Landry this year is not that good. He's not on pace for 1000 yards, and the market will likely regard him as strictly a slot WR. That will not translate to him getting a huge payday. His contract will more likely be a scaled up version of what recent slot guys like Randall Cobb and Tavon Austin has gotten. He'll get a little more than that, but I think his offensive role will restrict him from being paid like a prototype #1. Watkins will get nowhere near that. His production has been incredibly mediocre this year. Even if what you say about him needing to make more than Robert Woods were true, Woods is making like $6.8M per year. And even then, I see no reason they'd pay him more than Woods since Woods has been more productive. If Watkins demands $13M+ the Rams will laugh and let him walk. He does not carry that kind of value right now. As for Davante Parker's name being thrown around repeatedly, that's just ridiculous. He'd need a huge 2018 to see anything even close to the numbers we're talking about here. I get that contracts scale up over time. But the reality is, the six guys making more per year than Jeffery (and the one making as much) have all been 1500 yard guys, or 16 TD guys, around the time they got paid. They don't go up so quickly that guys getting 800 yards and 6 TDs this year (like what these 4 guys are going to end up at or under this year) are suddenly going to make premier money. It just doesn't go up that quickly. And you say the guys a tier below OBJ and Evans will get $13M - $15M at least, but these aren't the guys a tier below OBJ and Evans. The guys we're talking about here are several tiers below OBJ and Evans. Watkins is 47th in receiving yards right now. That's not a tier below OBJ. That's like 4 tiers below OBJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 5 hours ago, Nabbs4u said: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/larry-fitzgerald-966/ You might want to check your Fitz numbers again? That was also a contract created a few years ago when salaries were even lower. Jordy absolutely will get paid. Maybe not some crazy 6 yr type deal but he's going nowhere as long as he remains Rodgers favorite target. You talking about his numbers in a down year when the QB throwing the ball the past 6-7 weeks is pathetic ,is a joke. Nelson was still Nelson when ARod was there catching 6TD in his first 4gms! NFL contracts will increase for players whether deserving or not the Market will dictate that. Contracts will not get smaller in the future. So what you believe a players worth means very little. GM's will do what the market dictates! Which happens to be escalating salaries! Agree to disagree. Revisit this in 2 yrs. Going off of this for average per year for WRs: https://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver Same source that puts Jeffery tied for 7th in average per year, as everyone has consistently stated here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cddolphin Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 10 hours ago, Jakuvious said: That production you list for Landry this year is not that good. He's not on pace for 1000 yards, and the market will likely regard him as strictly a slot WR. That will not translate to him getting a huge payday. His contract will more likely be a scaled up version of what recent slot guys like Randall Cobb and Tavon Austin has gotten. He'll get a little more than that, but I think his offensive role will restrict him from being paid like a prototype #1. This. Landry lines up in the slot a majority of the time. His average depth of target is extremely low and he lives off RAC. He's not a typical WR and won't (shouldn't) get near what Jeffrey did. He should max out around $11m/year with high guarantees but I could see a team becoming enamored and paying $12m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianlewis16 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 What a god damn waste of money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cddolphin Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, ianlewis16 said: What a god damn waste of money ^^Those are the WRs currently making more than Jeffery Notable 2018 FA WRs: Terrell Pryor Sammy Watkins Danny Amendola Josh Gordon Davante Adams Allen Robinson Jarvis Landry I think Adams is the only one who exceeds $13m/year this coming offseason. Pryor, Gordon, Watkins, and Robinson may opt for shorter deals for various reasons that end up higher in annual pay, although I think it's unlikely they clear $13m. After it's all said and done I think Jeffery ends up as the 9th-highest paid WR for 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.