Who is the most overrated player in the NFL?

[Steelersfan43]

47 minutes ago, MaddHatter said:

Haven't read this thread, and my take will probably get some major heat, but that's why I'm here...

Patrick Mahomes is the most overrated player in the NFL right now - why? Is he the best QB in the NFL? absolutely - is he Brady level GOAT? Not yet, but too many people are saying he's there or he's about to pass Brady.  

Patrick has won 3 Rings in 5 years - Brady won 3 Rings in 4 years.... then he went and won 3 in 5 years... then went and won 1 more with a completely different team.

Patrick has led the league in Passing Yards 1x, TD's 2x, and lowest INT% 1x - Brady led the league in Passing Yards 4x, TD's 5x, lowest INT% 4x and PSR 2x

Patrick has 1 league MVP, Brady had 3

So again - Patrick is building a HOF career, he may go down as the GOAT or second-GOAT, but when people are already putting him there after 6 years, I think that makes you overrated.  I don't recall Adrian Peterson getting this treatment during his prime.  Maybe Randy Moss during his peak started to get mentioned in Rice's category.  Other than that, Brady wasn't even given GOAT status over Joe Cool till he won his 5th? ring IIRC and for most of his career he was always 1a/1b with Peyton for Current Best QB until he started to pull away towards the end of their careers.

No one thinks Mahomes is better than Brady career wise....It's just that Mahomes has the advantage over Brady in his first 6 years as a starter which is quite an achievement.We all know it's going to be very hard for him to match Brady's career but if anyone has a chance it's Mahomes even if I don't think anyone will match Brady's great longevity

[PossibleCabbage]

I think it's Purdy.  He has been successful throwing a lot of layups to easy reads and guys who were schemed open.  The man throws a *lot* of interceptable balls.

He's not like a terrible quarterback, but people talk about him like he'd be starting for 20 other teams.

[elevators_rule]

1 hour ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I think it's Purdy.  He has been successful throwing a lot of layups to easy reads and guys who were schemed open.  The man throws a *lot* of interceptable balls.

He's not like a terrible quarterback, but people talk about him like he'd be starting for 20 other teams.

Where do you rank him? Top 10? Top 15? Top 20?

[MaddHatter]

2 hours ago, Steelersfan43 said:

No one thinks Mahomes is better than Brady career wise....It's just that Mahomes has the advantage over Brady in his first 6 years as a starter which is quite an achievement.We all know it's going to be very hard for him to match Brady's career but if anyone has a chance it's Mahomes even if I don't think anyone will match Brady's great longevity

I'm not sure about that first part - I've seen a lot of people putting him 1a/1b with Brady or claiming he's the GOAT.  Not just here, but in general (X,etc).  Seems like he's - at worst - #2 all-time for most people and already surprised Joe Montana, Otto Graham, Peyton Manning, etc after just 6yrs.

As for the 2nd part, I'm not sure how Mahomes has the advantage over Brady in his first 6 years as a starter.  Did Brady have the advantage in his first 4 years, but Patrick made up for it these last 2 years?  Is it the league MVP that he has that Brady didn't get till his 7th year?  

I agree with the last part - it will be hard for him to match Brady's post season success, career success, or his records, but if anyone has a chance, it certainly is Mahomes.  I think longevity is a long shot, but who knows as modern medicine advances, rules change, etc.  It'll be interesting to see what happens when Reid retires (if he does) and Mahomes goes under new leadership / a new offense.  I'm not suggesting Reid makes Mahomes or he's a "System QB" but for a long time Brady was held down b/c of Belicheck and it wasn't until he left and went to TB and won another ring there that many people said "oh so it WAS Brady that was GOAT all along" and now they knock Bill b/c he didn't do anything before or after Brady.

[notthatbluestuff]

3 minutes ago, MaddHatter said:

I'm not sure about that first part - I've seen a lot of people putting him 1a/1b with Brady or claiming he's the GOAT.  Not just here, but in general (X,etc).  Seems like he's - at worst - #2 all-time for most people and already surprised Joe Montana, Otto Graham, Peyton Manning, etc after just 6yrs.

As for the 2nd part, I'm not sure how Mahomes has the advantage over Brady in his first 6 years as a starter.  Did Brady have the advantage in his first 4 years, but Patrick made up for it these last 2 years?  Is it the league MVP that he has that Brady didn't get till his 7th year?  

I agree with the last part - it will be hard for him to match Brady's post season success, career success, or his records, but if anyone has a chance, it certainly is Mahomes.  I think longevity is a long shot, but who knows as modern medicine advances, rules change, etc.  It'll be interesting to see what happens when Reid retires (if he does) and Mahomes goes under new leadership / a new offense.  I'm not suggesting Reid makes Mahomes or he's a "System QB" but for a long time Brady was held down b/c of Belicheck and it wasn't until he left and went to TB and won another ring there that many people said "oh so it WAS Brady that was GOAT all along" and now they knock Bill b/c he didn't do anything before or after Brady.

Mahomes has two league MVPs, FYI. And 3x Super Bowl MVPs (Brady won two in his first six years).

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 hours ago, MaddHatter said:

Brady won his 4th in his 14th year starting, so if Mahomes is in his 16th year starting and still has 3, is he still the GOAT?

Mahomes success so far is not the most success we've ever seen in this time frame... especially with the addition of "it's not even close" which again reinforces why he's the most overrated player in the NFL right now.

Name me another player with 3 SB wins and 2 league MVP's in their first 6 seasons.

[MaddHatter]

9 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Mahomes has two league MVPs, FYI. And 3x Super Bowl MVPs (Brady won two in his first six years).

You're right - I forgot he won it in 2018

[MaddHatter]

6 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Name me another player with 3 SB wins and 2 league MVP's in their first 6 seasons.

Name me another player with 3 SB wins in their first 4 seasons - I mean by this thought process we can just manipulate time periods to get whatever advantage we want.   From 2015-2021, name another player with 3SB MVP's.  

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, MaddHatter said:

Name me another player with 3 SB wins in their first 4 seasons - I mean by this thought process we can just manipulate time periods to get whatever advantage we want.   From 2015-2021, name another player with 3SB MVP's.  

Well considering Mahomes has only played for 6 seasons I fail to see how it's manipulating anything. Tom Brady didn't do it. Nobody has, only Mahomes, which is the entire point.

Brady had more team success early on because he wasn't the Tom Brady we think of now, but Mahomes is far and away a more talented player at this point in their respective careers.

Edited February 13 by AFlaccoSeagulls

[MaddHatter]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Well considering Mahomes has only played for 6 seasons I fail to see how it's manipulating anything. Tom Brady didn't do it. Nobody has, only Mahomes, which is the entire point.

So go back to my other question - if Mahomes played for 10 more seasons (16 years total) and doesn't win another Ring, is he still GOAT / 2nd GOAT to Brady? 

[notthatbluestuff]

1 minute ago, MaddHatter said:

Name me another player with 3 SB wins in their first 4 seasons - I mean by this thought process we can just manipulate time periods to get whatever advantage we want.   From 2015-2021, name another player with 3SB MVP's.  

It’s not manipulative or arbitrary to compare their careers up the point where the most recent player is currently at. It’s the only fair way to compare them, in fact. 

Of course Brady is #1 in terms of accomplishments, nobody is disputing that. Mahomes is arguably on pace to match or surpass him, nobody is saying he definitely will. But it’s certainly a fair conversation to compare their first six seasons as starters - why wouldn’t it be?

[MaddHatter]

2 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

It’s not manipulative or arbitrary to compare their careers up the point where the most recent player is currently at. It’s the only fair way to compare them, in fact. 

Of course Brady is #1 in terms of accomplishments, nobody is disputing that. Mahomes is arguably on pace to match or surpass him, nobody is saying he definitely will. But it’s certainly a fair conversation to compare their first six seasons as starters - why wouldn’t it be?

I'm fine with someone saying Mahomes is "on pace" but I disagree with "it's not even close"

I also think it's a massive overrating of Mahomes to say he's already 1a/1b GOAT with Brady when if he plays 10 more years and doesn't win another ring, he'll have half the success Brady did, but people are already crowning him GOAT

[SodeeWater_Cheezburger]

7 minutes ago, MaddHatter said:

I'm fine with someone saying Mahomes is "on pace" but I disagree with "it's not even close"

I also think it's a massive overrating of Mahomes to say he's already 1a/1b GOAT with Brady when if he plays 10 more years and doesn't win another ring, he'll have half the success Brady did, but people are already crowning him GOAT

What messes a lot of people up is the term: GOAT.  Most people make the determination by looking at career accomplishments, while other people put more weight on how good of a player someone is. 

The comparison of Mahomes vs. Montana is a good example of this.  Montana accomplished more during his career, but I have Mahomes rated higher because I just think he is flat out a better player on the field.  This doesn't mean that my definition of the GOAT is the right one.  It's just the one I happen to use.

With Mahomes' current combination of accomplishments and talent, he is my #2 all-time.

[MaddHatter]

2 minutes ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said:

What messes a lot of people up is the term: GOAT.  Most people make the determination by looking at career accomplishments, while other people put more weight on how good of a player someone is. 

The comparison of Mahomes vs. Montana is a good example of this.  Montana accomplished more during his career, but I have Mahomes rated higher because I just think he is flat out a better player on the field.  This doesn't mean that my definition of the GOAT is the right one.  It's just the one I happen to use.

With Mahomes' current combination of accomplishments and talent, he is my #2 all-time.

Do we just completely ignore other generations b/c they didn't play in this era? Look at OG - 10 years, 10 Title Games, 7 Titles.  Probably the greatest "career" someone could ever have in any sport.  You can't say "if Mahomes played back then, he'd have been better" just like I can't say "if OG played today, he'd be just as good" b/c it's purely speculation and imagination without regarding the thousands of factors that set the generations apart.  

Going forward, as rules change, humans become more talented, seasons get longer, whatever - we start seeing guys throw for 6k and 7k yards in a season, putting up 60-70 TDs a year, are we going to start putting them ahead of guys like Rodgers, Peyton, Montana, etc?  I just don't get where it ends - the newer generation will always be "more talented" 

[Forge]

1 hour ago, elevators_rule said:

Where do you rank him? Top 10? Top 15? Top 20?

Seems like bottom 12 based on his comment (which would kind of make him at least a bad starting QB relative to other "starting QBs") 

2 hours ago, PossibleCabbage said:

He's not like a terrible quarterback, but people talk about him like he'd be starting for 20 other teams.

 

I suppose the other way to view that would be in tiers and give the tie to the incumbent, so to speak.  So like, would he start for Detroit over Goff? There's no reason for them to do that, so no. But then you can technically say that Purdy wouldn't start there but he's maybe not actually worse than Goff, there's just no reason that he would start over him. Sort of a, "six of one, half dozen of the other" situation.