Justin Fields

[Bigbear72]

11 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

 

Good to see Moore doubling down...this guy has been around a lot of QBs and the fact he is happy to put himself on the line for Fields is telling IMO.

That argument is relative though. He has been around a lot of BAD QBs. This doesn't necessarily mean that Justin is good. It could mean that he is the best that DJ has had and therefore, by default, is good in his eyes. I can see a case for and against Justin to be honest. Right now he isn't a top 10 QB. Could he develop into that? Possibly. Will we be able to optimize his talent? History says no but we don't know what Poles and Warren's plans are or how they are evaluating the situation.

[topwop1]

15 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

 

Good to see Moore doubling down...this guy has been around a lot of QBs and the fact he is happy to put himself on the line for Fields is telling IMO.

JF is the best QB Moore has been around...this isn't shocking considering who his QBs were in Carolina...this is also not saying much

Again what do we expect DJ to say here? He's not going to throw JF under the bus when asked questions by the media. Great to see he has his back..as he should because DJ is a stand up guy. Other than that I wouldn't read into this too much

If we're going to have the keep Fields or not debate let's keep it to on the field performance vs what his teammates, peers, coaches and talking heads think of him 

[Sugashane]

43 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Dont be coming in here making good points. Who do you think you are? Me? 

Who do you think you are making borderline narcissistic comments like that? Me?

Wait... damn it.

[Bigbear72]

1 minute ago, Sugashane said:

Who do you think you are making borderline narcissistic comments like that? Me?

Wait... damn it.

Can't say this wasn't the first thing that popped in my head but I thought it would be better form to stay silent.

[Sugashane]

Just now, Bigbear72 said:

Can't say this wasn't the first thing that popped in my head but I thought it would be better form to stay silent.

I struggle with that. But with my melodic voice that isn't surprising.

[Madmike90]

Just now, Bigbear72 said:

That argument is relative though. He has been around a lot of BAD QBs. This doesn't necessarily mean that Justin is good. It could mean that he is the best that DJ has had and therefore, by default, is good in his eyes. I can see a case for and against Justin to be honest. Right now he isn't a top 10 QB. Could he develop into that? Possibly. Will we be able to optimize his talent? History says no but we don't know what Poles and Warren's plans are or how they are evaluating the situation.

That is my point...he knows what bad looks like and he is happy to now say twice in quick succession that he backs Fields...why would he do that if he thinks Fields is also bad? Wouldn't help his career one bit and while he could have worded it more strongly that he would have liked right after the game the fact he has then came out again and backed Fields says a lot IMO...you can't have guys like him & TJ Edwards come out in support of Fields as strongly when they don't have to and not take that into consideration because being a QB is far more than just throwing the ball especially within a locker room that despite yesterdays lost is showing clear progression...I think if anyone offered us 7-10 or 8-9 at the start of the season we all would have taken it...I just feel players will always be the best indicator of a players talent...

I also think the argument of "Top 10" QB is overplayed as I pointed too with the likes of Purdy & Hurts previously...numbers wise and win wise you can't really say their not top 10 QBs but you drop those two into this situation and they aren't doing any better than Fields...

I just think we need to figure out a way to build a scheme around Fields' talents like other teams like the Eagles have done with Hurts...I will argue with anyone that Fields is a better and more natural thrower than Jalen Hurts...but Hurts has a scheme that takes advantage of his strengths and hides a lot of his weaknesses while surrounding him with excellent talent...we on the other hand have tried to take Fields and mash him up with a scheme that Aaron Rodgers played in for years...it just isn't working and while we have all been critical of Getsy and rightly so it's not all on him...it's just not a fit for either because Fields isn't going to be that WCO QB that Getsy needs and Getsy can't develop a scheme that let's Fields take shots down the field & use things like mesh or overload concepts over the middle of the field which is what he did best in college...

Kevin Patullo would make a ton of sense here as an OC.

[topwop1]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Yes, I would be.   Trevor Lawrence has underachieved.

 

 

Like wise

Though I'll admit a big reason we're having this discussion is only because of the unique situation we find ourselves in of potentially having our pick of the litter of QBs on this draft 

If it was a bad draft year for QBs then we wouldn't really be having this discussion and the conversation would be more focused on what pieces we can add around JF to help him continue to grow and progress

There is also the elephant in the room or Fields approaching the end of his rookie deal with a big financial decision looming to be made on his future

To this point I don't think any of us can say they'd be confident in extending Fields at a Daniel Jones like contract figure which is what he would probably be looking at ...unless I'm mistaken and some of you actually think he's worth that?

Theiren lies the conundrum facing Poles

[Madmike90]

9 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

JF is the best QB Moore has been around...this isn't shocking considering who his QBs were in Carolina...this is also not saying much

Again what do we expect DJ to say here? He's not going to throw JF under the bus when asked questions by the media. Great to see he has his back..as he should because DJ is a stand up guy. Other than that I wouldn't read into this too much

If we're going to have the keep Fields or not debate let's keep it to on the field performance vs what his teammates, peers, coaches and talking heads think of him 

This argument just doesn't stack up...Moore could easily side step the question like most would...that isn't what he is doing here and truthfully why would he? Coming into this week they have the best rating of any tandem in the league...Moore understands what Fields brings for him and probably sees that if some more of his teammates actually helped him out with not dropping passes then yesterdays outcome would have been much different.

[Madmike90]

 

He might be if you play a bit better 😂

[Bigbear72]

2 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

That is my point...he knows what bad looks like and he is happy to now say twice in quick succession that he backs Fields...why would he do that if he thinks Fields is also bad? Wouldn't help his career one bit and while he could have worded it more strongly that he would have liked right after the game the fact he has then came out again and backed Fields says a lot IMO...you can't have guys like him & TJ Edwards come out in support of Fields as strongly when they don't have to and not take that into consideration because being a QB is far more than just throwing the ball especially within a locker room that despite yesterdays lost is showing clear progression...I think if anyone offered us 7-10 or 8-9 at the start of the season we all would have taken it...I just feel players will always be the best indicator of a players talent...

Can you cite and instance where DJ hasn't stood by a QB or throw him under the bus. For that matter how often do you see teammates throw there QB under the bus? I remember when Ryan Fitzpatrick was in Buffalo and his receivers claiming he was the best QB in the league? I hear what you are saying, and I don't think Fields is as bad as some may lead you to believe, but this is simply a weak argument at best on Field's behalf. 

[Madmike90]

5 minutes ago, Bigbear72 said:

Can you cite and instance where DJ hasn't stood by a QB or throw him under the bus. For that matter how often do you see teammates throw there QB under the bus? I remember when Ryan Fitzpatrick was in Buffalo and his receivers claiming he was the best QB in the league? I hear what you are saying, and I don't think Fields is as bad as some may lead you to believe, but this is simply a weak argument at best on Field's behalf. 

My point in all of this is he is not "standing by him or not throwing him under the bus" if that was the case and he was just saying something like "Justin keeps working hard and we all believe that as an offence we can get better" that would hold zero weight because it is PR speak...Moore has twice went over and above to say he believes that Fields is the franchise QB...now many players are ever going to do that unless they truly believe in that player...and again look at Fields' rating when targeting Moore...there is a reason that when he throws to the one guy with real talent he looks great and when he throws to guys with not much talent he looks bad...there has to be trust between a QB & Receiver...clearly Fields & Moore have it but I don't believe Fields has it with anyone else apart from Kmet to a point.

[topwop1]

14 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

This argument just doesn't stack up...Moore could easily side step the question like most would...that isn't what he is doing here and truthfully why would he? Coming into this week they have the best rating of any tandem in the league...Moore understands what Fields brings for him and probably sees that if some more of his teammates actually helped him out with not dropping passes then yesterdays outcome would have been much different.

Why would he side step the question. Obviously he and Fields get along well and have a good connection. No one is arguing against that, that doesn't mean we cannot expect better QB play and that the organization shouldn't expect better either 

I'm not worried about DJ..he is a dawg and will do well with whichever QB is throwing him passes next season 

If it's Fields cool that's great but if not then I trust he is professional enough to know that's how this business works sometimes and that any change would be made with best intentions of improving the situation 

Edited December 18, 2023 by topwop1

[Madmike90]

7 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Why would he side step the question. Obviously he and Fields get along well and have a good connection. No one is arguing against that, that doesn't mean we cannot expect better QB play and that the organization shouldn't expect better either 

I'm not worried about DJ..he is a dawg and will do well with whichever QB is throwing him passes next season 

If it's Fields cool that's great but if not then I trust he is professional enough to know that's how this business works sometimes and that any change would be made with best intentions of improving the situation 

No one is saying Moore will have a problem if we do choose to move on from Fields...I agree with you there he is a professional and had multiple different QBs throughout his career...I just feel he understands this guy can be special and doesn't want us to give up on that...

And I completely agree we need better QB play from Fields...but I also think we need talent that actually help him do that like a Purdy or Hurts...Fields doing unbelievable things from time to time has almost made us believe he should be able to do more with less than any of these other guys with similar skill sets...I fully believe if you drop Fields into that Eagles situation he is a "top 5" QB...getting him that much support and a scheme built to his strengths should be the priority IMO.

[Bigbear72]

1 minute ago, Madmike90 said:

My point in all of this is he is not "standing by him or not throwing him under the bus" if that was the case and he was just saying something like "Justin keeps working hard and we all believe that as an offence we can get better" that would hold zero weight because it is PR speak...Moore has twice went over and above to say he believes that Fields is the franchise QB...now many players are ever going to do that unless they truly believe in that player...and again look at Fields' rating when targeting Moore...there is a reason that when he throws to the one guy with real talent he looks great and when he throws to guys with not much talent he looks bad...there has to be trust between a QB & Receiver...clearly Fields & Moore have it but I don't believe Fields has it with anyone else apart from Kmet to a point.

Totally understand your point Mike. I'm just saying that most often in cases like this you will find players that will do this. Especially those players that are good teammates. Especially if that player in question is liked and respected. Really, if I'm being honest with you, unless the player is a malcontent the chance of anything but a supportive statement are slim. 

"The first time I was in there, I was blown away," Miller says. "Now it's the highlight of my week, to watch him mentally roll through the game plan."

The conversations all began the same way: "Dude, I can't wait to play for this guy."

 

Those are quotes about...you guessed it...Mitch Trubisky. 

[Madmike90]

1 minute ago, Bigbear72 said:

Totally understand your point Mike. I'm just saying that most often in cases like this you will find players that will do this. Especially those players that are good teammates. Especially if that player in question is liked and respected. Really, if I'm being honest with you, unless the player is a malcontent the chance of anything but a supportive statement are slim. 

"The first time I was in there, I was blown away," Miller says. "Now it's the highlight of my week, to watch him mentally roll through the game plan."

The conversations all began the same way: "Dude, I can't wait to play for this guy."

 

Those are quotes about...you guessed it...Mitch Trubisky. 

I get that man...but the context of a statement is all important...when did Miller say that? When he first started play with Trubisky because towards the end no one want coming out in support of him...even that "PR speak" support of him...the fact Fields could be 3 games away from being replaced and now two of his receivers have came out as well as others on the team with strong statements means something IMO...I think these players are smart enough to understand he is not the problem and the holes that remain on the team like a true #2 or any sort of #3 receiver or indeed a proper center are more to do with it...as well as the fact the scheme just isn't a fit for either him or Getsy.