Justin Fields

[Madmike90]

Just now, dll2000 said:

Interesting thing I took from that interview is that DJ doesn’t watch football. 
 

Weird...George Kittle was saying the same today on NFL Now

[Sugashane]

38 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

All of that is irrelevant man...the stats provided are purely Fields to DJ/Cole...

It simply can't be said he isn't a good passer when he has shown that throwing to proper talent he is...he showed it in college...he has shown it here...the problem is we have nothing else around him and had an idiot at OC.

Is Cole not a TE? How is it irrelevant for him? Lol

And it can be said, I'm literally saying it.

If Fields passing in college counts then Williams is a God level talent (he isnt). He did more with lesser receivers and talent around him than Fields. Bringing up college stats is WAY more irrelevant than Fields' current passing crutches.

[Madmike90]

1 minute ago, Sugashane said:

Is Cole not a TE? How is it irrelevant for him? Lol

And it can be said, I'm literally saying it.

If Fields passing in college counts then Williams is a God level talent (he isnt). He did more with lesser receivers and talent around him than Fields. Bringing up college stats is WAY more irrelevant than Fields' current passing crutches.

Trying to group all RBs & TEs is though hahaha

And you can have that opinion to say it but the stats and frankly eye test don't back it up...

Also no one brought up college stats...I said you could see how good he was as a passer in college...nothing statistical.

[Sugashane]

7 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Trying to group all RBs & TEs is though hahaha

And you can have that opinion to say it but the stats and frankly eye test don't back it up...

Also no one brought up college stats...I said you could see how good he was as a passer in college...nothing statistical.

Knet doesn't get used like prime Kelce, he is used like a traditional TE. He isn't used as Dallas Clark or prime Graham constantly in the slot. Why would he be an exception exactly?

Him being a good passer is backed up more by slanted stats and his eye test prasings seem like they're through rose-coloroed lenses. Him stumbling through/missing reads and being ineffective as a passer in well over 1/3 of his games over the past 2 seasons says enough. He's a dynamic athlete playing QB more than a good QB who is a great athlete. His game revolves around his athletic gifts, not his ability to process and atrack through the air.

You brought up college, we can bring up the great college passers like Landry Jones, Colt Brennan, Keenum, etc. Still irrelevant, stats or not  Fields looked great but essentially played in easy mode, and his progression has been minimal. He's not getting that level of separation in the NFL, no one does.

Bears screwed up, they likely will again.

[Madmike90]

9 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Knet doesn't get used like prime Kelce, he is used like a traditional TE. He isn't used as Dallas Clark or prime Graham constantly in the slot. Why would he be an exception exactly?

Him being a good passer is backed up more by slanted stats and his eye test prasings seem like they're through rose-coloroed lenses. Him stumbling through/missing reads and being ineffective as a passer in well over 1/3 of his games over the past 2 seasons says enough. He's a dynamic athlete playing QB more than a good QB who is a great athlete. His game revolves around his athletic gifts, not his ability to process and atrack through the air.

You brought up college, we can bring up the great college passers like Landry Jones, Colt Brennan, Keenum, etc. Still irrelevant, stats or not  Fields looked great but essentially played in easy mode, and his progression has been minimal. He's not getting that level of separation in the NFL, no one does.

Bears screwed up, they likely will again.

Dude no one is saying he is an exception...I am simply saying you can't just lump all these guys in together...Fields completed 80% of his passes to Kmet...that isn't something to just brush off as him "not being a good passer" it's pretty hardened evidence that when targeting actual talented players he is able to complete passes at a high rate.

Again you can't say he in ineffective when he has shown what he can do with good players around him...you also can't fire everyone involved in the passing game and still view Fields in the same way...it is blatant that there are issues in the passing attack and if anything Fields' has at least kept the train on the tracks when throwing to our better players...are there still things he could do better? 100% but you could make that argument about a ton of QBs around the league...

And yes I brought up college because you tried to say he was an great athlete who doesn't play QB very well...factually incorrect...in college he played QB from the pocket far more often than not...I agree things were pretty easy for him in college...no one has ever said anything different but to try and put him in the box of "athlete playing QB" is just such a tired take.

Edited January 14 by Madmike90

[Sugashane]

21 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Dude no one is saying he is an exception...I am simply saying you can't just lump all these guys in together...Fields completed 80% of his passes to Kmet...that isn't something to just brush off as him "not being a good passer" it's pretty hardened evidence that when targeting actual talented players he is able to complete passes at a high rate.

Again you can't say he in ineffective when he has shown what he can do with good players around him...you also can't fire everyone involved in the passing game and still view Fields in the same way...it is blatant that there are issues in the passing attack and if anything Fields' has at least kept the train on the tracks when throwing to our better players...are there still things he could do better? 100% but you could make that argument about a ton of QBs around the league...

And yes I brought up college because you tried to say he was an great athlete who doesn't play QB very well...factually incorrect...in college he played QB from the pocket far more often than not...I agree things were pretty easy for him in college...no one has ever said anything different but to try and put him in the box of "athlete playing QB" is just such a tired take.

If I ask you what is more likely to be complete - a drag route or a corner - you'd say a drag route. It's a shorter route. Screens, flats, quick passes against soft coverage are all high percentage throws. The bulk of Kmets receptions are shorter ones. It's a fact. Him completing 80% of them is good, but it isn't crazy. The guy is valuable. But do you really think he was making throws to Kmet that most of 15-20 QBs couldnt have done? His escapability is amazing, his accuracy isn't.

Yeah I can. I've said repeatedly the cast was inept. At some point Fields still missed way too many open reads and simple throws. He isnt just the culmination of the staff. Fields athleticism and the running game kept the trains on the track more than anything else offensively.

Sorry, I didn't realize I needed to specify he isn't a good professional QB. Most profesional QBs were good in college, just as most college QBs were really good in high school. Yes, when he has a stacked roster, a top WR corps and a top OL he can play college QB and throw to mostly open receivers.

 

We will have to agree to disagree Mike. I hope you're right and he can be the face of the Bears for 10+ years, and be highly successful while doing so. I just don't think he can as a passer.

[Madmike90]

2 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

If I ask you what is more likely to be complete - a drag route or a corner - you'd say a drag route. It's a shorter route. Screens, flats, quick passes against soft coverage are all high percentage throws. The bulk of Kmets receptions are shorter ones. It's a fact. Him completing 80% of them is good, but it isn't crazy. The guy is valuable. But do you really think he was making throws to Kmet that most of 15-20 QBs couldnt have done? His escapability is amazing, his accuracy isn't.

Yeah I can. I've said repeatedly the cast was inept. At some point Fields still missed way too many open reads and simple throws. He isnt just the culmination of the staff. Fields athleticism and the running game kept the trains on the track more than anything else offensively.

Sorry, I didn't realize I needed to specify he isn't a good professional QB. Most profesional QBs were good in college, just as most college QBs were really good in high school. Yes, when he has a stacked roster, a top WR corps and a top OL he can play college QB and throw to mostly open receivers.

 

We will have to agree to disagree Mike. I hope you're right and he can be the face of the Bears for 10+ years, and be highly successful while doing so. I just don't think he can as a passer.

Again you are talking about a specific route when none of the information suggests that...not only that when you go and look at the info in 6 games this season Cole had a long reception of over 20 yards (all coming in games with Fields) 53, 41, 27, 23, 22 yards respectively...was that all just drag routes? And if we want to talk about down field accuracy then go back to DJ and a 71% completion percentage and an average of over 15 YPC...the proof is there that when targeting starting level talent Fields has made throws all year...

How many times has Fields missed an "open read or simple throw" to DJ or Kmet?

The players in the locker room would disagree with you on him being a good professional QB...hell the players around the NFL would disagree as would a ton of former players who are all wanting us to stick with him...why would that be if he wasn't good? Why would we move on from the guys involved in the passing game? Why would we all regardless of if we want it to be Field or Caleb be saying that we desperately need to draft weapons early? If Fields is the biggest problem (not saying he isn't some part of it because again improvements can be made) then why does no one have confidence anywhere else?

And sure we will agree to disagree and I know we both want whichever direction we go in to be the right one.

[Madmike90]

DJ is currently on Sky Sports talking about the 2024 international games...

When asked about working with Fields he said he would given them an "A" for the season being newcomers together and that they "are just looking to build off of that"

Doubling down on British TV now too 😂

[Sugashane]

45 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Again you are talking about a specific route when none of the information suggests that...not only that when you go and look at the info in 6 games this season Cole had a long reception of over 20 yards (all coming in games with Fields) 53, 41, 27, 23, 22 yards respectively...was that all just drag routes? And if we want to talk about down field accuracy then go back to DJ and a 71% completion percentage and an average of over 15 YPC...the proof is there that when targeting starting level talent Fields has made throws all year...

How many times has Fields missed an "open read or simple throw" to DJ or Kmet?

The players in the locker room would disagree with you on him being a good professional QB...hell the players around the NFL would disagree as would a ton of former players who are all wanting us to stick with him...why would that be if he wasn't good? Why would we move on from the guys involved in the passing game? Why would we all regardless of if we want it to be Field or Caleb be saying that we desperately need to draft weapons early? If Fields is the biggest problem (not saying he isn't some part of it because again improvements can be made) then why does no one have confidence anywhere else?

And sure we will agree to disagree and I know we both want whichever direction we go in to be the right one.

I gave examples of routes to make it clear, of course they weren't the only routes he ran. Lol. Most of hisnroutes ran are sub-10 yards. Most defensesnare WAY more concerned about rolling coverage towards Moore. Kmet makes the most of his opportunities ities for sure. He's damn solid.

Youre purring way too much on those two. Look, Bagent had like a 66% completion preercentage to Moore too and over 80% to Kmet. Lucky Bears, they must have a full blown QB competition in their hands! Im joking but obviously Bagent isnt a starter, but he puts up high completion percents to the same guys. Why isnt that special then? And Kmet has those long receptions then imagine how many did he have that were behind the LOS, or within 5 yards. How many yards were after the catch? Thats why averages are used. Views can't only be simplistic when they support what you want them to.

Plenty? Are you honestly going to say he didn't miss them?

People supported Rex, Tru, etc. A few years ago ARob, Miller, and others were fully in support of Tru. Doesnt change that he isnt a good QB. It's the same song and dance. Players around the league sure as hell haven't been scared of Fields for his passing ability. It's usually his legs. How many times to people need to hear the same comments about Fields as they did Tru. "We just were gonna make him beat us with his arm" or "We wanted to take his legs away," or "Need to make him sit back there" are common ways that defenses attack the Bears QBs. See how odd that is? Defenses are forcing him to be a regular QB, and that scheme works more often than not.

You ever have friends that you liked a lot but they weren't great at their jobs? Ever go around saying, "Damn Timmy is trash. We need to replace him bad. Cool guy though." I'm assuming no. Fields is a good dude. Doesn't mean he's a good passer. If the Bears commit to a Roman or other OC that keys in around making fast, simple reads and running the offense through the run game then the offense has a shot to look like something. If you have to rely on 2 All Pro talents as WR1&2, a Pro Bowl TE, a WR3 that should be a 2 on most teams, and a top rushing attack to make the QB an above average passer, then he isn't a good passer.

Also Fields staying (if he does, no way Poles has his mind made up yet) doesn't mean the Bears are committing to him. Poles could simply have his mind made up to aquire as much talent around the QB as possible. If Fields does well in 2024 then franchise tag and see if lightning can strike twice. If not then the new QB has a lot of support (assuming FA and high picks hit). Poles may want to take the SF route, and Fields could find himself being the Bears version of Jimmy G, and taking their swing at Purdy later. It's just a waiting game, and we have no idea what Poles will do. He may even refuse to draft a QB at all because he wants to test Fields and give no excuses if he fails, or ensure if he IS the guy before doing anything. That doesn't mean Poles is committing at all. If so he'd extend Fields now when his value is so low compared to a true franchise QB.

[refundmytickets]

Literally every QB is going to have good stats throwing to their best WR. That doesn't mean anything. If Tua could drop back and throw every pass to Tyreek Hill he'd be a 1st ballot HOFer. The measure of a good QB is how he elevates the guys around him.

[Madmike90]

16 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I gave examples of routes to make it clear, of course they weren't the only routes he ran. Lol. Most of hisnroutes ran are sub-10 yards. Most defensesnare WAY more concerned about rolling coverage towards Moore. Kmet makes the most of his opportunities ities for sure. He's damn solid.

Youre purring way too much on those two. Look, Bagent had like a 66% completion preercentage to Moore too and over 80% to Kmet. Lucky Bears, they must have a full blown QB competition in their hands! Im joking but obviously Bagent isnt a starter, but he puts up high completion percents to the same guys. Why isnt that special then? And Kmet has those long receptions then imagine how many did he have that were behind the LOS, or within 5 yards. How many yards were after the catch? Thats why averages are used. Views can't only be simplistic when they support what you want them to.

Plenty? Are you honestly going to say he didn't miss them?

People supported Rex, Tru, etc. A few years ago ARob, Miller, and others were fully in support of Tru. Doesnt change that he isnt a good QB. It's the same song and dance. Players around the league sure as hell haven't been scared of Fields for his passing ability. It's usually his legs. How many times to people need to hear the same comments about Fields as they did Tru. "We just were gonna make him beat us with his arm" or "We wanted to take his legs away," or "Need to make him sit back there" are common ways that defenses attack the Bears QBs. See how odd that is? Defenses are forcing him to be a regular QB, and that scheme works more often than not.

You ever have friends that you liked a lot but they weren't great at their jobs? Ever go around saying, "Damn Timmy is trash. We need to replace him bad. Cool guy though." I'm assuming no. Fields is a good dude. Doesn't mean he's a good passer. If the Bears commit to a Roman or other OC that keys in around making fast, simple reads and running the offense through the run game then the offense has a shot to look like something. If you have to rely on 2 All Pro talents as WR1&2, a Pro Bowl TE, a WR3 that should be a 2 on most teams, and a top rushing attack to make the QB an above average passer, then he isn't a good passer.

Also Fields staying (if he does, no way Poles has his mind made up yet) doesn't mean the Bears are committing to him. Poles could simply have his mind made up to aquire as much talent around the QB as possible. If Fields does well in 2024 then franchise tag and see if lightning can strike twice. If not then the new QB has a lot of support (assuming FA and high picks hit). Poles may want to take the SF route, and Fields could find himself being the Bears version of Jimmy G, and taking their swing at Purdy later. It's just a waiting game, and we have no idea what Poles will do. He may even refuse to draft a QB at all because he wants to test Fields and give no excuses if he fails, or ensure if he IS the guy before doing anything. That doesn't mean Poles is committing at all. If so he'd extend Fields now when his value is so low compared to a true franchise QB.

You gave examples of routes...routes that the numbers don't back up as I showed...

And plenty? Okay which one stands out in your mind? Because I can remember when Tonyan dropped a perfectly thrown deep ball that would more than likely have went for a TD...I can remember Scott not getting his feet down in the endzone on a well thrown ball then fall out dropping a perfectly thrown ball that would have resulted in 2 TDs in the same game...I can remember last season where EQ shorted a route and was bullied off the ball by Alexander in the Packers game for a INT...so where were all the bad throws & poor reads to DJ & Kmet?

And two different people have made that comment...want to speak about all the people around the league who say we should stick with him because it is damn sure more than 2?

Also I have never said Poles needs to commit to Fields long term...people seem to forget he is still under contract with a 5th year option and potential franchise tag option much like Dak Prescott in Dallas...my opinion is Poles should try and surround him with as much talent as possible so he can be properly accessed and then if it is still not working you have the chance to drop a new QB into a fantastic situation rather than rinse and repeat what we have done in the past and drop a new QB into a bad spot with a bad coordinator/HC and no weapons like we did with Fields & Trubisky...I will be completely honest with you...I have no issue if Poles wants to trade down and get a haul of picks then still draft a QB in the 3rd or 4th round if they think it is someone they can develop...say we maneuver around the draft like Poles normally does and end up taking a guy like Joe Milton (or Cam Ward if he changes his mind again) I will have zero issue with it...I am not a Fields or no one guy...I am a best overall for the team guy...and for me that approach is the best one right now because we still don't know what we truly have in Fields.

[beardown3231]

Without thinking, who would you rather have:

Player A: 61.3% completion percentage, 7.4 ypa, 58 pass td's, 34 INT's, 88.6 qb rating, 5.9 rushing yards per attempt, 22 fumbles (first 3 years)

Player B: 60.3% completion percentage, 7.0 ypa, 40 pass td's, 30 INT's, 82.3 qb rating, 6.2 rushing yards per attempt, 38 fumbles (first 3 years)

Edited January 14 by beardown3231

[Madmike90]

1 hour ago, refundmytickets said:

Literally every QB is going to have good stats throwing to their best WR. That doesn't mean anything. If Tua could drop back and throw every pass to Tyreek Hill he'd be a 1st ballot HOFer. The measure of a good QB is how he elevates the guys around him.

The point is not the best WR...the point is after the best receiver (& best TE) there is nothing.

[Pool]

If we walk out of the draft with MHJ, Bowers, and a FRP next year I'll be happy. I think you keep punting picks down the road until we have a solid team to insert a 1st round QB into. Fields imo has his flaws but has done about the best you could expect given the coaching and skill players around him. 

[beardown3231]

15 minutes ago, Pool said:

If we walk out of the draft with MHJ, Bowers, and a FRP next year I'll be happy. I think you keep punting picks down the road until we have a solid team to insert a 1st round QB into. Fields imo has his flaws but has done about the best you could expect given the coaching and skill players around him. 

The Bears were 7-10 last year. They have a good defense, a solid TE1, and a good WR1. They have a solid team now