New Regime Options

[beardown3231]

 

[Bigbear72]

1 hour ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

I'm sorry, we're going to have to do this the hard way Hal

Enter Sim Mode Enter Diagnostic

Delete Roschon Johnson=QB

Delete Outcome JF1+CW=Bears2024

New Target Scenario=Fight Sugashane @ Beach

Exit Sim Mode Exit Diagnostic

 

I pray we won't have to escalate to Tier 2 support for this.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Bigbear72

[SLCbear]

14 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

1. You don’t think front offices or coaching staffs are conscious of their perception to their fan bases? I mean, wow. I’m not suggesting that they make any decisions based solely on what fans want, but to think that stuff isn’t at all part of the equation is just naive. The McCaskeys don’t want to be embarrassed. The coaching staff doesn’t want to have people chanting for them to be fired at their kid’s HS game. Nobody wants to be a national punchline. 

2. Fields doesn’t have a choice? C’mon, man. Guys hold out and ask for trades or their release all the time. If you’re the Bears and you draft Williams after which Fields says he doesn’t see a future for himself in Chicago and wants out, and you just drafted a different QB with superstar potential with the 1st overall pick, you’re going to force Fields to stick around when the alternative is playing the 1st overall pick QB hoping that that somehow turns out to be a positive for the team? In what world does that make for a good situation for anyone? What are you telling Williams that, after taking him 1st overall, you’re practically begging the guy he was drafted to replace to stay when he doesn’t even want to be there? And for what - because if Fields somehow manages to balls out in the impossible situation you’ve put him in you maybe get a better draft pick for him after in this fantasyland he becomes the super stud he was drafted to be at the most opportune time possible for the organization, at which time instead of keeping the super stud QB we inexplicably trade away the 25 year old star QB we’ve been looking for for 50 years when he finally reaches superstar status. Unconscionable. Which brings me to:

4. (Swapping the order for continuity here) You’re not giving Fields the chance to keep the keys here. You’re literally saying if he plays really well you’re going to trade him away anyway. If he doesn’t want to be here any more in this scenario because you’ve told the world you’re no longer committed to his development by drafting Williams, and your response is essentially 🤷‍♂️ how is that NOT dicking him around? Hell, it’s dicking Williams around too. “You’ll get your turn once we feel like we can get enough back to get rid of the other guy.” FFS. What happens with this wouldn’t just about Fields and Williams either. Players see how you as a staff and organization treat other players. It matters a lot when players have choices to either sign here as FAs or re-sign here before they get to FA. If you’re giving the finger to what has been the undisputed leader in that locker room for the past 2 seasons you’re going to piss a lot of guys off. Frankly, I think Poles respects Fields way too damn much to do that to him. Whether or not he ultimately decides to go another direction at QB, Poles has been effusive in his praise of Fields the man and the leader since the day he got here. Circling back now:

3. The Bears have the least trade leverage in any scenario where they have both Williams and Fields on the roster. Whether they trade Fields in May or October, the other side of the trade knows you’re eventually going to trade him because you just took Williams. The Bears can’t change that part of the equation without being willing to potentially take Williams 1st overall then NEVER play him, which would never happen in a million years, and if it did and they would trade Williams for far less than they’d have gotten to just trade the #1 pick pre draft and let him be drafted elsewhere, which is far worse in terms of adding assets to the roster than taking a lower pick for Fields earlier.

Leverage in negotiations is about pressure points and time. If you draft Williams you’re not picking up Fields’ 5th year option, and even if Fields played all year for us in 2024 after drafting Williams in your scenario and was awesome you’re almost certainly not franchise tagging him with Williams on the roster. So basically, you’ve got a window from the end of April until early November in which you can trade Fields without either losing him for nothing to FA in 2025 or tying up $50M+ in 2025 salary cap to trade him with even less leverage then (because everyone will know you don’t want to carry his franchise tag salary in 2025 when you could otherwise use that $50M+ to make your team way better). When eventually we’d lose Fields for nothing, the other side of any trade will always have a pressure point to lean on to limit our potential return. 

You think trading Fields right after drafting Williams is bad value. I think if you’re going to wait to trade Fields until after you’ve drafted Williams then the earliest trade you can make post draft is probably the best value you’re going to get, and because of that, if the plan is to draft Williams at 1 that a Fields trade has to happen before the draft, and should happen before FA, because that’s when the org. will have its most leverage in a trade. Before the draft, the possibility of not trading Fields is still on the table, and before FA there will be multiple potential suitors who haven’t yet filled their own QB needs in the draft or FA. More options on our side = more leverage = better return. Also, trading Fields before the draft lets us use that draft capital we get in return this year rather than next year. 

Great post ! You make several very good points, I agree with ALot of it  but am just not convinced that having a possible 1 year overlap of JF-CW must ONLY be a bad thing.  alot of GOOD can come from having both.  AND trading JF away for a less valuable return NOW just to avoid potential headaches is bad business all around imo and not really protecting the franchise either.

 JF the man is as good of a human being as there is anywhere ❤️ !  JF is undisputed starter Week 1,  and if he continues to pass up on tight window throws or is still holding onto the ball  OR if he is unable to stay healthy, enter CW. At this point JFs value will be the exact same as it is now, as these are the evident weaknesses in his game today.

 If JF CAN  make some developmental leaps in these areas AND we start winning games  AND even make a deep PO run, then the discussion pivots to trading JF for a haul or possibly keeping JF altogether, at least for another year  and CW is back-up for one more year.  In any of these scenarios we have CW to start several games when JF is inevitably out due to injury. 

 AND  CW, like everybody elsE, will probably like Fields the man and get along great with him.  CW will also likely be very respectful of the dues already paid by JF here in Chicago, esp if the team is WINNING  !  CW will also FORCE THE VERY BEST play FROM FIELDS ! Fields, I'm sure has a lot of respect for CW as well ! Things don't HAVE to be bad !  And if things do become bad, you then make a trade. The difference in trading him later is that there is the strong possibility of further development from Fields along the way. 

Holding onto JF can only help his trade value or cause it to remain the same, holding onto him cannot worsen the trade value. This is why I vote to hold onto JF until we absolutely HAVE to trade him  !

  If the rest of team around these 2 QBs is significantly built up this offseason AND JF takes developmental leaps then we are SB contenders and have CW to start when JF misses games !

If we trade JF just because we are drafting Williams, what are our chances of contending with a rookie QB who has some fumbling and hero ball issues. CW needs time to learn and develop at NFL level, JF needs time to develop further. We control both, so why not let it play out while clearly protecting the franchise ?? 

We will know what's what with everything by next year's trade deadline, we have nothing to lose by keeping both until then BUT there is alot to potentially gain 👍🏻💫

 Its just smart to hold onto both at least until the deadline. AnY developmental strides from JF is very valuable progress for us in terms of winning games and of course for any potential trade down the road;  AND CW does not have to be thrown into the fire week 1. He can learn and grow for half a season at least. WHICH IS A GrEAT thing 👍🏻 for his own development.

 

 NOW, all of this is mute  if a team steps up and gives us FRP value for JF NOW (prior to or during draft, or just after Draft). If not, I'm keeping JF at least until deadline. 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by SLCbear

[SLCbear]

3 hours ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

I'm sorry, we're going to have to do this the hard way Hal

Enter Sim Mode Enter Diagnostic

Delete Roschon Johnson=QB

Delete Outcome JF1+CW=Bears2024

New Target Scenario=Fight Sugashane @ Beach

Exit Sim Mode Exit Diagnostic

 

You are new to the board. Me and @AZBearsFan have had a thousand debates over the past 15+ years ha ha  

 He is not a follower,  and if he believes in something he will stand his ground and not buckle to pressure from other posters.

I like this about him very much and admire his tenacity ! He makes the board better 

 

[SLCbear]

3 hours ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

I'm sorry, we're going to have to do this the hard way Hal

Enter Sim Mode Enter Diagnostic

Delete Roschon Johnson=QB

Delete Outcome JF1+CW=Bears2024

New Target Scenario=Fight Sugashane @ Beach

Exit Sim Mode Exit Diagnostic

 

I wanted my guy @beardown3231 to come to Cabo to meet me in person bc I think he would like me ha ha 

 going at on line with avatar- strangers for many years skews things quite a bit, takes any human-ness out of the equation 

  No fights happening over some pseudo interpersonal online conflict lmao

[Sugashane]

3 hours ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

I'm sorry, we're going to have to do this the hard way Hal

Enter Sim Mode Enter Diagnostic

Delete Roschon Johnson=QB

Delete Outcome JF1+CW=Bears2024

New Target Scenario=Fight Sugashane @ Beach

Exit Sim Mode Exit Diagnostic

 

I'd totally get punched in the face for a warm beach right now. 

[Sugashane]

3 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

 

 

[beardown3231]

33 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

 

I think Bienemy would honestly be in my top 3 behind Harbaugh and Johnson. He's a hard *** and clearly KC is lost offensively without him. I wouldn't LOVE it but it sure beats some 50-something year old beat off who loves defense

[SLCbear]

12 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

I think Bienemy would honestly be in my top 3 behind Harbaugh and Johnson. He's a hard *** and clearly KC is lost offensively without him. I wouldn't LOVE it but it sure beats some 50-something year old beat off who loves defense

was thinking along same lines, he has been very successful and being a former RB could potentially be perFECT developer for JF scheme 

 

[SLCbear]

👆🏻

 great for CW development too 

 only concern is he is ANOTHER rookie HC  but I would be happy with EB if Harbaugh doesn't happen

[Madmike90]

53 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

 

The exact same as last time round...anyone who reads up on Bieniemy's past as a man wouldn't want him here as a HC regardless of how good his playbook might be.

[SLCbear]

5 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

The exact same as last time round...anyone who reads up on Bieniemy's past as a man wouldn't want him here as a HC regardless of how good his playbook might be.

As far as I know he's been wo incident for many yrs and has been passed over SEveral times for HC positions. Now may be the right time to give the highly successful OC a shot. He's in his 50s and keeps having successful season after successful season, and I'm sure wants nothing more than to be an NFL HC. Don't see him screwing up his very 1st opportunity after being passed over a million times 

[Madmike90]

7 minutes ago, SLCbear said:

As far as I know he's been wo incident for many yrs and has been passed over SEveral times for HC positions. Now may be the right time to give the highly successful OC a shot. He's in his 50s and keeps having successful season after successful season, and I'm sure wants nothing more than to be an NFL HC. Don't see him screwing up his very 1st opportunity after being passed over a million times 

Considering two of those many incidents were putting his hands on the throat of a female parking attendant and shoving a firefighter who was tackling a blaze at Bieniemy's own mother's property I don't really care how long ago it happened...dude is a scumbag and I don't see why on earth when there are ample candidates for one of the top jobs in all of sports we would settle for this guy...

Coaching side no one can question...but there is a clear reason no owner up until this point has trusted this guy.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Madmike90

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, beardown3231 said:

I think Bienemy would honestly be in my top 3 behind Harbaugh and Johnson. He's a hard *** and clearly KC is lost offensively without him. I wouldn't LOVE it but it sure beats some 50-something year old beat off who loves defense

I think KC's issues are more personnel (and Nagy being incompetent). Kelce hasn't looked as good but their WR corps has been trash. League leading 24 drops has really killed them. Mooney would easily be the #1 there, and that isn't a ringing endorsement for Mooney.

[beardown3231]

1 hour ago, Madmike90 said:

Considering two of those many incidents were putting his hands on the throat of a female parking attendant and shoving a firefighter who was tackling a blaze at Bieniemy's own mother's property I don't really care how long ago it happened...dude is a scumbag and I don't see why on earth when there are ample candidates for one of the top jobs in all of sports we would settle for this guy...

Coaching side no one can question...but there is a clear reason no owner up until this point has trusted this guy.

I agree with all of this. I doubt he gets a HC job anytime soon, maybe ever, but I wouldn't hate it.