The MVP race

[straighthate]

4 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

I have watched more than just highlights. I agree Purdy looks great when everything is perfect around him. But to my eye he appears to be the 5th best offensive player after T. Williams, CMC, Kittle, and Deebo. The fact that he didn't look very good when Deebo and Williams were out is a red flag. He could be a Burrow-level player, or he could be more in the Cousins/Prescott tier, or he could be a Mac Jones who falls apart when he is not properly supported. I don't feel that he's been in enough stressful situations to know at this point. 

Did you watch those games? 2/3 he actually looked good but they didn’t get the points and then he didn’t make it happen in the 4th quarter (which to me is the biggest concern I have with him as a QB and as an MVP). If I’m picking the game in the season he looked the worst, it was the Giants game, but the disparity in talent between both rosters made up for it. But that was the biggest game he just looked off, along with Cleveland. And Cleveland, he still wins that game if Moody doesn’t miss a very makeable kick. Other than that, he’s really only looked bad when he had a concussion. 
 

Like I said, I don’t care if he wins it. Probably saves us some salary cap in a couple years if he doesn’t. But people need to stop commenting without watching him play a full game and watching some breakdown to understand why his reads, which can’t be seen from just a highlight, are as good as anyone in the NFL. 

[jonnguy2015]

1 hour ago, straighthate said:

Did you watch those games? 2/3 he actually looked good but they didn’t get the points and then he didn’t make it happen in the 4th quarter (which to me is the biggest concern I have with him as a QB and as an MVP). If I’m picking the game in the season he looked the worst, it was the Giants game, but the disparity in talent between both rosters made up for it. But that was the biggest game he just looked off, along with Cleveland. And Cleveland, he still wins that game if Moody doesn’t miss a very makeable kick. Other than that, he’s really only looked bad when he had a concussion. 
 

Like I said, I don’t care if he wins it. Probably saves us some salary cap in a couple years if he doesn’t. But people need to stop commenting without watching him play a full game and watching some breakdown to understand why his reads, which can’t be seen from just a highlight, are as good as anyone in the NFL. 

Assuming he doesn't want a discount, he'll be the highest paid QB in the league in 2025 (at least until the next guy gets his contract) if he keeps up this level of production, MVP or no MVP

Edited December 19, 2023 by jonnguy2015

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, straighthate said:

Did you watch those games? 2/3 he actually looked good but they didn’t get the points and then he didn’t make it happen in the 4th quarter (which to me is the biggest concern I have with him as a QB and as an MVP). If I’m picking the game in the season he looked the worst, it was the Giants game, but the disparity in talent between both rosters made up for it. But that was the biggest game he just looked off, along with Cleveland. And Cleveland, he still wins that game if Moody doesn’t miss a very makeable kick. Other than that, he’s really only looked bad when he had a concussion. 
 

Like I said, I don’t care if he wins it. Probably saves us some salary cap in a couple years if he doesn’t. But people need to stop commenting without watching him play a full game and watching some breakdown to understand why his reads, which can’t be seen from just a highlight, are as good as anyone in the NFL. 

You bet your bottom dollar you better be good when you reads are "Do I throw it to the best WR duo in the NFL, or my top 5 TE, or check it down to the best RB in the game?"

The guy literally has things on easy mode. Just acknowledge that and we can move on and discuss other things. And I don't even wanna hear "oH hIs oFfEnSiVe lInE iSnT gOoD!". Bro has 3rd longest pocket time in the NFL behind 2 scrambling QB's and he's pressured at league-average rates.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/passing_advanced.htm

We all get it. He's having a phenomenal season playing for the most stacked offense with the best offensive scheme in the NFL, and he's executing at a high level. He's not doing anything, IMO, that's not expected under those circumstances, though. Not that it really matters, just when I compare him vs. Lamar, that's what I think about.

[Forge]

I guess "best wr duo in the league" even though some may not have them top 5 is a step down from "best supporting cast in the history of the sport" that others were espousing in this thread 

I think that you can make an argument that they are top 3, but I could also see an argument for them being out of the top 5 if you prefer a higher top end #1 (for example, I think CeeDee >>>>> both niners receivers, but obviously both niners receivers >>>>> Cooks imo)

• Hill + Waddle
• Chase + Higgins
• Kupp + Nacua
• Jefferson + Addison
• Lamb + Cooks
• Brown + Smith
• Metcalf + Lockett (adding in JSN probably gives them a better trio than the niners as well). 

I think that you can make a case for any of these units at least being on par with Aiyuk and Deebo. I'm not going to get upset if someone had Aiyuk + Deebo at #3, or at #7. And I'm not including a group of like Allen + Mike Williams due to injury, Mclaurin + Dotson or Adams + Meyers who are mired in QB hell or Evans + Godwin (until last week, the latter had looked a little cooked). 

 

[straighthate]

57 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

You bet your bottom dollar you better be good when you reads are "Do I throw it to the best WR duo in the NFL, or my top 5 TE, or check it down to the best RB in the game?"

The guy literally has things on easy mode. Just acknowledge that and we can move on and discuss other things. And I don't even wanna hear "oH hIs oFfEnSiVe lInE iSnT gOoD!". Bro has 3rd longest pocket time in the NFL behind 2 scrambling QB's and he's pressured at league-average rates.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/passing_advanced.htm

We all get it. He's having a phenomenal season playing for the most stacked offense with the best offensive scheme in the NFL, and he's executing at a high level. He's not doing anything, IMO, that's not expected under those circumstances, though. Not that it really matters, just when I compare him vs. Lamar, that's what I think about.

Weird, I don’t remember anyone talking much about Aiyuk before Purdy was throwing to him. And the narrative I was reading was Kittle’s done until I guess he wasn’t, because that’s better for the narrative. And Deebo wasn’t exactly a stud last year either. But Purdy’s had a huge impact on all these guys. Staying after practice with them, finding what fits their strengths, understanding how the coverage will play them, etc.  I guess that’s just being a game manager though, huh. 
 

I wasn’t sure where you were going with it until you threw Lamar’s name in there. I guess you’ll see on Monday. And when you watch the game and the replays, ask if Lamar would have gotten the ball out at that same time for a 20 yard gain or if he would have tucked it and ran. Looks better on the highlights for sure, but doesn’t mean he’s a better QB. 
 

No one is arguing the Niners have a great team. Once again, I’m not even saying Purdy’s the MVP. I just think those of you giving him no credit and acting like anyone could do it look like you’re in denial to me.  But I get it. It’ll probably take 3 or 4 years and the cast to rotate a bit before you come around. Until then, the guy can just keep stacking wins which is fine with me. 

[Forge]

1 minute ago, straighthate said:

Weird, I don’t remember anyone talking much about Aiyuk before Purdy was throwing to him.

In fairness, I've been popping off about Aiyuk for a couple of years now. I've been warning everyone that if there's a guy who has the Stefon Diggs glow up, it's going to be him. I've never got a *ton* of push back on that from NFL Gen. 

[straighthate]

Just now, Forge said:

In fairness, I've been popping off about Aiyuk for a couple of years now. I've been warning everyone that if there's a guy who has the Stefon Diggs glow up, it's going to be him. I've never got a *ton* of push back on that from NFL Gen. 

I’ve said the same, but he didn’t have the numbers until Purdy was in there. He's the best pure receiver on the team and I think one of the best in the NFL.

And you’ve certainly heard plenty as far as Kittle’s done. And Deebo…. What did he have like 600 yards last year? 

I’m just saying that supporting cast is good for sure. But how good do they look without Purdy? He’s elevated them all.  To me he’s the MVP of the team because of that. I’d be more concerned about him going down than any other player on the team, with Bosa and Trent Williams not far behind him. Don’t really care about the league. 
 

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

8 minutes ago, straighthate said:

Weird, I don’t remember anyone talking much about Aiyuk before Purdy was throwing to him. And the narrative I was reading was Kittle’s done until I guess he wasn’t, because that’s better for the narrative. And Deebo wasn’t exactly a stud last year either. But Purdy’s had a huge impact on all these guys. Staying after practice with them, finding what fits their strengths, understanding how the coverage will play them, etc.  I guess that’s just being a game manager though, huh. 
 

I wasn’t sure where you were going with it until you threw Lamar’s name in there. I guess you’ll see on Monday. And when you watch the game and the replays, ask if Lamar would have gotten the ball out at that same time for a 20 yard gain or if he would have tucked it and ran. Looks better on the highlights for sure, but doesn’t mean he’s a better QB. 
 

No one is arguing the Niners have a great team. Once again, I’m not even saying Purdy’s the MVP. I just think those of you giving him no credit and acting like anyone could do it look like you’re in denial to me.  But I get it. It’ll probably take 3 or 4 years and the cast to rotate a bit before you come around. Until then, the guy can just keep stacking wins which is fine with me. 

I was gonna respond point by point to this, but there's no point. It's all just ridiculously false statements easily disprove with 3 seconds of research.

As for the bolded - we've literally watched Jimmy G do almost this exact same thing, so idk what the point of that even is.

[Forge]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I was gonna respond point by point to this, but there's no point. It's all just ridiculously false statements easily disprove with 3 seconds of research.

As for the bolded - we've literally watched Jimmy G do almost this exact same thing, so idk what the point of that even is.

Except for all those numbers I posted to you when you said this last time, right? 

[straighthate]

1 minute ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I was gonna respond point by point to this, but there's no point. It's all just ridiculously false statements easily disprove with 3 seconds of research.

As for the bolded - we've literally watched Jimmy G do almost this exact same thing, so idk what the point of that even is.

You can’t respond because you don’t know how to. Regarding the bolded, as a guy who watched every snap of Jimmy and every snap of Purdy, I don’t know how to respond to you except to say you’re so far off, both statistically and with the eye test, that you clearly just haven’t watched. You won’t admit it, but win or lose, I think you’ll have an entirely different opinion of Purdy after you watch him for the first time on Monday. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Just now, Forge said:

Except for all those numbers I posted to you when you said this last time, right? 

Basically the same thing as in the Niners' similar record, pretty similar base stats and similar offensive rankings. You can dive in to the more efficiency-based stats and how they produced those results (for example, Jimmy throwing a lot more screen passes), but in the end the results are basically the same.

Shanahan's system is the GOAT for the modern offense making the QB position easy mode. 

The funny part is that Jimmy G wasn't even in the MVP conversation in 2019 (unless I'm really mis-remembering. I'm trying to find 2019 MVP odds and nothing has him listed as of November of that year)

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

3 minutes ago, straighthate said:

You can’t respond because you don’t know how to. Regarding the bolded, as a guy who watched every snap of Jimmy and every snap of Purdy, I don’t know how to respond to you except to say you’re so far off, both statistically and with the eye test, that you clearly just haven’t watched. You won’t admit it, but win or lose, I think you’ll have an entirely different opinion of Purdy after you watch him for the first time on Monday. 

my guy your first statement was how a 4th year WR only started producing when Purdy took over, which was in his 3rd year after he posted an 850 yard sophomore season. Like come on....

I live on the west coast. My GF is a Niners die hard. I watch every game of theirs. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by AFlaccoSeagulls

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

@Forge I'll make you a deal: I'll admit Purdy is the front-runner for MVP if you admit the system and talent around him make his job the easiest in the NFL for QB's.

[AngusMcFife]

16 minutes ago, straighthate said:

 But I get it. It’ll probably take 3 or 4 years and the cast to rotate a bit before you come around. Until then, the guy can just keep stacking wins which is fine with me. 

It's funny how you want others to keep an open mind about Purdy when you have 100% made up your mind and think you can predict his future. 

[Habbsawce]

3 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

@Forge I'll make you a deal: I'll admit Purdy is the front-runner for MVP if you admit the system and talent around him make his job the easiest in the NFL for QB's.

To give Purdy credit he does hit those wide open receivers, and they hold onto the ball.