The Michigan/Sign Stealing & COVID Punishment Thread

[ramssuperbowl99]

2 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Corum claims no knowledge or signature. If that’s the case, the LLC was filed in Wyoming in 2022 and with a forgery or no signature, that is a felony.

If there is a signature, goes to refute the claim that coaches and players had no knowledge.

He hasn't said that under oath, so the simple explanation here is that he's lying. If that's wrong, it's a hilariously stupid gaffe.

[MWil23]

2 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

He hasn't said that under oath, so the simple explanation here is that he's lying. If that's wrong, it's a hilariously stupid gaffe.

That’s more or less what I am trying to say. That’s an easy first investigation point, as is the Central Michigan one, as is the master spreadsheet with the specific cost/benefit monetary analysis.

Those are simple ones.

Fact: There is a sheet with that. Larger implications are who had access and funding of taxpayer funded university dollars as well as definitive proof of cheating illegally 

Fact: He had one of 50 sideline passes designated for CMU personnel. That’s a major NCAA violation and for a MAC school that’s catastrophic.

Fact: LLC with Stalions and Corum legally filed

Past that you’re in the fun zone of computer hacking, practice footage, repeat offenses stemming from a cheeseburger, Covid violations, etc.

[ramssuperbowl99]

5 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Fact: There is a sheet with that. Larger implications are who had access and funding of taxpayer funded university dollars as well as definitive proof of cheating illegally 

By cheating illegally, that means against the B1G rules and NCAA rules. Not against federal law to spy on football programs.

6 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Fact: He had one of 50 sideline passes designated for CMU personnel. That’s a major NCAA violation and for a MAC school that’s catastrophic.

True, but legally it's, what, trespassing?

I've trespassed on a CFB field before storming the field, a lot of us have. Is doing it to steal signs worse? Yeah, but not legally it's not against the law to steal signs.

Again, seriously against B1G/NCAA rules, but I don't think it's illegal in nearly the same way and he'd never be charged with trespass from a year+ old video.

8 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Fact: LLC with Stalions and Corum legally filed

Still not illegal unless Corum didn't sign for the LLC. If that's true, they're idiots. It's far more likely they both signed.

 

The rumors of illegal stuff, like accessing practice footage and whatnot are out there. I'm not saying we know definitively Michigan didn't commit a crime or anything, but I don't see anything that makes the LLC culpable except the signature, which is nothing but he-said he-said at this point.

[BigC421/]

I know MW is pretending to block me but Simply out of curiosity what are you guys basing the idea the infractions Michigan is accused of will result in a bowl ban?  The ncaa has admitted it considers this a minor infraction. There’s nothing in the ncaa by laws that suggest such a harsh punishment. I don’t doubt it could happen simply because the ncaa hates Harbaugh for his open public stance on players earning shared revenue. But this punishment really seems more like a “what OSU fans want to happen” rather than a what the ncaa’s own statements and precedent would call for.   
 

There’s also the growing factor/ belief that the ncaa wants this to go away do the attention now being publicly drawn to the rule and the fact it’s anti-trust violation case waiting to happen.  The rule was admittedly put in place for monetary reason. The ncaa has been getting killed in anti trust cases and would almost assuredly lose this one. It wouldn’t effect Jim Harbaugh as Michigan agreed to play by the rule as it stood but ambitious and spiteful lawyers  alike are already looking into this. 

[BigC421/]

30 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

He hasn't said that under oath, so the simple explanation here is that he's lying. If that's wrong, it's a hilariously stupid gaffe.

There is no forgery of his signature. There is no Blake Corum signature on the file either way

[MWil23]

19 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

By cheating illegally, that means against the B1G rules and NCAA rules. Not against federal law to spy on football programs.

Correct

19 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

True, but legally it's, what, trespassing?

I've trespassed on a CFB field before storming the field, a lot of us have. Is doing it to steal signs worse? Yeah, but not legally it's not against the law to steal signs.

Again, seriously against B1G/NCAA rules, but I don't think it's illegal in nearly the same way and he'd never be charged with trespass from a year+ old video.

Still not illegal unless Corum didn't sign for the LLC. If that's true, they're idiots. It's far more likely they both signed.

 

The rumors of illegal stuff, like accessing practice footage and whatnot are out there. I'm not saying we know definitively Michigan didn't commit a crime or anything, but I don't see anything that makes the LLC culpable except the signature, which is nothing but he-said he-said at this point.

Everything I said was meant under the lens of NCAA with the exception of the LLC portion. I didn’t mean to carry over illegal anything else per previous post. Sick kid, running on 0 sleep.

[ramssuperbowl99]

Just now, MWil23 said:

Correct

Everything I said was meant under the lens of NCAA with the exception of the LLC portion. I didn’t mean to carry over illegal anything else per previous post. Sick kid, running on 0 sleep.

Ahh okay that makes sense.

Sorry to hear about the kid. Hope when you get whatever they've got next it's not too bad.

[BigC421/]

56 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

IMO the way to get him to squeal is the whole LLC felony charge thing with prison time. If he wants to go down for that then fine, but the dude is an academy guy…and we all know that the academy guys “Don’t cheat or tolerate those who do” per their honor code. (Laughs heartily)

The justice department is not in the business of cutting deals of immunity to felons for information on legal ncaa rules  violations lol. 

[MWil23]

Just now, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Ahh okay that makes sense.

Sorry to hear about the kid. Hope when you get whatever they've got next it's not too bad.

Yeah, I’m strictly talking about starting points for various investigations. From an NCAA standpoint, it’s the spreadsheet which then raises questions not just about cheating but about money, which for a state institution is a big deal unless a donor takes the fall, in which case it’s still an NCAA infraction. A real Catch 22 there.

For CMU, it’s a huge issue if a MAC school gets hit with fines and scholarships. That’s like their only money maker for an institution of that small of a size. Wearing a sideline pass is going to get them in trouble.

The LLC is cut and dry legally and should be easy to get into in a matter of a few phone calls. 

The sheet is the most damning but will take the longest, same with the videos and pictures.

The other smoke and mirrors stuff will take a while to unpack.

As for the kid, stomach bug both ways. Waiting for impending doom domino effect. Absolutely horrific.

[BigC421/]

Conner Stallions is likely long gone. You guys expect this international man off mystery to just turn himself in?  These aren’t the kind of wrong doings that will cause some kind of man hunt.  The government is more concerned with taking down the ncaa then helping it if you haven’t been paying attention.  We will probably never see Stallions face again unless somehow he is cleared of all wrong doing legally.  He is likely out of the country at this point. People seriously downplaying just who he is, what he is capable of and what kind of mental issues he may have. 

[BobbyPhil1781]

I'm sure Rams and MWil (or basically  99% of people here so chime in if you do) know a lot more about this than me, so I'll ask.

The TRO is tomorrow and people will be in court as a result. The NCAA has said they have a lot of evidence that Michigan broke rules, that Michigan knows they broke rules, and basically that Michigan never denied breaking them. Is this the setting where we would find out some of the rules they supposedly broke? I didn't know if that would potentially happen now or if we had to wait until the NCAA finished their investigation to figure that out. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by BobbyPhil1781

[ramssuperbowl99]

10 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

I'm sure Rams and MWil (or basically  99% of people here so chime in if you do) know a lot more about this than me, so I'll ask.

The TRO is tomorrow and people will be in court as a result. The NCAA has said they have a lot of evidence that Michigan broke rules, that Michigan knows they broke rules, and basically that Michigan never denied breaking them. Is this the setting where we would find out some of the rules they supposedly broke? I didn't know if that would potentially happen now or if we had to wait until the NCAA finished their investigation to figure that out. 

Likely, yes.

The judge has to determine if the TRO is valid or not. So that means:

1. does the law apply
2. are the reasons for the TRO valid beyond the burden of proof

The first part is the sportsmanship clause. B1G will argue the letter of the law. Presumably they win. Michigan will argue it's never been enforced and this is selective, etc. I think based on that, it'd be reasonable to hear why the B1G would want an exception based on the facts.

Which means we'll hear what some of the evidence is. Not necessarily all of it, they just need enough to meet whatever the burden of proof is. Michigan would have a chance to present their defense as well, so they may have exculpatory evidence. Then the judge will assess the validity of each side and make a claim.

(Never a lawyer, but have filed for a TRO and that's the rundown I got.)

[MWil23]

14 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

I'm sure Rams and MWil (or basically  99% of people here so chime in if you do) know a lot more about this than me, so I'll ask.

The TRO is tomorrow and people will be in court as a result. The NCAA has said they have a lot of evidence that Michigan broke rules, that Michigan knows they broke rules, and basically that Michigan never denied breaking them. Is this the setting where we would find out some of the rules they supposedly broke? I didn't know if that would potentially happen now or if we had to wait until the NCAA finished their investigation to figure that out. 

@Ragnarok is a lawyer as is I believe @jrry32. They probably have some unique expertise here.

[BobbyPhil1781]

12 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Likely, yes.

The judge has to determine if the TRO is valid or not. So that means:

1. does the law apply
2. are the reasons for the TRO valid beyond the burden of proof

The first part is the sportsmanship clause. B1G will argue the letter of the law. Presumably they win. Michigan will argue it's never been enforced and this is selective, etc. I think based on that, it'd be reasonable to hear why the B1G would want an exception based on the facts.

Which means we'll hear what some of the evidence is. Not necessarily all of it, they just need enough to meet whatever the burden of proof is. Michigan would have a chance to present their defense as well, so they may have exculpatory evidence. Then the judge will assess the validity of each side and make a claim.

(Never a lawyer, but have filed for a TRO and that's the rundown I got.)

Good info. Thanks!

I'm assuming this can be made public as well or will the courts try to refrain from the information being available to the public?

[ramssuperbowl99]

1 minute ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Good info. Thanks!

I'm assuming this can be made public as well or will the courts try to refrain from the information being available to the public?

Not sure. In mine anything we said or evidence we brought would have been public record.