RaidersAreOne Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 8 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: Raiders should've just retained him over Getsy.... Getsy isn't great but Bo is not good either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 15 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: I know Belichick only interviewed with the Falcons... is the general concensus that they were the only team interested, or that they were the only team he was interested in? Apparently Peters/Commanders had a conversation (so not an interview) but it didn't really go anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said: Getsy isn't great but Bo is not good either. Bo wasn't good, but Getsy was awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 17 minutes ago, MagicMT said: Dan Quinn, Kliff Kingsbury and now Brian Johnson. Feels like this is an underwhelming start to the Adam Peters GM era It's not who I would have picked at HC, but at this point who else was out there for OC? Should we have gone for Kelly? Pushed harder for Getsy? Seen what Schottenheimer was up to? And Brian Johnson in a non-OC role seems solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 15 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: Dan Quinn is honestly not as bad as a hire as I feel people are making it. People are painting it as Ron Rivera 2.0 but I just don't see it - he's shown far more as a coach than Rivera Has he? Far more? More than a 2x COTY? Both went to a SB, Quinn went to 1 div game and Rivera went to 2 div games and 1 wild card game prior to joining WAS Rivera .546 w/l when he was hired by WAS, Quinn has a .506 career w/l. Rivera had a 15-1 season on his resume. Quinn's best season was 11-5 when he had Kyle Shanahan and the 27th ranked Defense. I'm curious what the case is for Quinn having shown far more as a coach? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 18 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: Bo wasn't good, but Getsy was awful. No Fields could help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 24 minutes ago, Soggust said: Has he? Far more? More than a 2x COTY? Both went to a SB, Quinn went to 1 div game and Rivera went to 2 div games and 1 wild card game prior to joining WAS Rivera .546 w/l when he was hired by WAS, Quinn has a .506 career w/l. Rivera had a 15-1 season on his resume. Quinn's best season was 11-5 when he had Kyle Shanahan and the 27th ranked Defense. I'm curious what the case is for Quinn having shown far more as a coach? Rivera's coaching career has basically been held up entirely from that 15-1 season, tbh, which was largely because prime Cam Newton just cooking. Then in the following seasons the success could not be replicated because his antiquated defenses dropped to a bottom-5 unit without Sean McDermott. Perhaps I was exaggerating a bit saying "far", but yeah, imo Quinn has shown the ability to do more with less. Or, at least he has shown capable of leading a successful modern NFL defense (while I can't even think of a single thing Rivera offers as a coach at all). Again, not saying that I think he's the best hire ever or even a good one, but I can see it potentially working out more than I could see Rivera working out when he was hired. Considering their arguably best options closed the door on them, the only move I can say that I truly hate from Washington this offseason has been Kliff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, RaidersAreOne said: No Fields could help. Who do the Raiders have or are getting that's better than Fields? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Soggust said: Has he? Far more? More than a 2x COTY? Both went to a SB, Quinn went to 1 div game and Rivera went to 2 div games and 1 wild card game prior to joining WAS Rivera .546 w/l when he was hired by WAS, Quinn has a .506 career w/l. Rivera had a 15-1 season on his resume. Quinn's best season was 11-5 when he had Kyle Shanahan and the 27th ranked Defense. I'm curious what the case is for Quinn having shown far more as a coach? Well, the above kinda reverse cherry-picks Rivera's time in WAS by minimizing his tenure there - he's been truly awful. Forget the W-L record in WAS (which is dreadful at 26-41-1): Rivera's also admitted that he didn't do any coaching in WAS for the last 3 years - in a 4-year term. And the time he took over, this year, WAS was literally 31st or dead last on D (I can't recall which) in his 5-week tenure. He didn't even know that his team could be eliminated in week 17 last year....as the head coach. He admitted this preseason he didn't realize Sam Howell was better than washed Carson-Wentz or Taylor Heinecke last year (Howell isn't earth-shattering obv, but to not know the QB's on your roster...what is it exactly that he does if he's not "coaching"?). I mean, trajectory / career path matters. Quinn left ATL and rebuild the DAL D. Rivera's last modicum of success was over 6 years ago - and primarily riding on the back of peak Cam Newton, and 2 All-Pro / near-HOF level LB's on D (yes I'm there with Luke Kuechly, damn you injuries, you can make a case Thomas Davis wasn't good enough for enough time, I'll buy that). It's totally legit to question Dan Quinn - but Ron Rivera stopped being a legit HC at least 4, if not 5 years ago. Outside of Nathaniel Hackett-level hiring, pretty much anyone would be an upgrade over present-day Rivera. (and yes, I think he's toast as a DC, too - total fraud candidate IMO). Edited February 8 by Broncofan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Outside of Nathaniel Hackett-level hiring, pretty much anyone would be an upgrade over present-day Rivera. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Well, the above kinda cherry-picks Rivera's time in WAS - he's been truly awful. Forget the W-L record in WAS (which is dreadful at 26-41-1): Rivera's also admitted that he didn't do any coaching in WAS for the last 3 years - in a 4-year term. And the time he took over, this year, WAS was literally 31st or dead last (I can't recall which) in his 5-week tenure. He didn't even know that his team could be eliminated in week 17....as the head coach. well hold on - we are comparing them as hires at the time, right? That's why we are excluding his WAS time. But I actually might even dip my toe in further on my Rivera take, so let me dig a hole here. 32 minutes ago, Broncofan said: I mean, trajectory / career path matters. Quinn left ATL and rebuild the DAL D. Rivera's last modicum of success was over 6 years ago - and primarily riding on the back of peak Cam Newton, and 2 All-Pro / near-HOF level LB's on D (yes I'm there with Luke Kuechly, damn you injuries, you can make a case Thomas Davis wasn't good enough for enough time, I'll buy that). I don't like building a case for Quinn > Rivera as a HC based on what he's done as a coordinator, but let's ignore that, for conversation's sake. Because you say it's been 6 years since Rivera had any success, but if we are giving Quinn credit strictly for defense (obv), then we should also acknowledge Rivera fielded good defenses in WAS 2020 and 2022, right? When he had the #4 and #7 defenses? Remember he is a defensive HC. Rivera has always had a problem with offense as a defensive minded head coach. It's his flaw, no doubt. But Quinn has a problem with defense as a defensive minded head coach. Which is a lot more concerning, imo. He averaged fielding the 19th ranked defense over 6 years as a HC. --- Talent wise, we are giving a lot of credit to Cam for having an MVP season in 2015 but they at least had the #6 defense (#1 in turnovers), so it feels like a solid all around team. This wasn't Cam carrying some bums despite Ron. Defensively, they had talent. Agreed. But Quinn's quite literally known for having one of the most talented defenses of all time (LoB) and his Dal D ain't exactly devoid of talent either imo. Offensively, Quinn coincidentally ALSO had an MVP (+HoF WR) and arguably one of the top 20 offensive minds ever and his signature season was certainly carried by their offense because they had the 27th ranked defense at the time. So sure, Rivera had some talent, but obviously Quinn did too, so I don't see the doing more with less argument tbh 32 minutes ago, Broncofan said: It's totally legit to question Dan Quinn - but Ron Rivera stopped being a legit HC at least 4, if not 5 years ago. Outside of Nathaniel Hackett-level hiring, pretty much anyone would be an upgrade over present-day Rivera. (and yes, I think he's toast as a DC, too - total fraud candidate IMO). I think Rivera checked out in WAS, for sure. But at the time of hire I don't even think it's comparable that Rivera was a much better candidate. And quite frankly, if I didn't have a toxic org, I might still take Rivera over Quinn and that's not a compliment towards Rivera lol. - note all these rankings are by points but we can do whatever bc i dont think it skews the results much Edited February 8 by Soggust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Soggust said: well hold on - we are comparing them as hires at the time, right? That's why we are excluding his WAS time. But I actually might even dip my toe in further on my Rivera take here, so let me dig a hole here. I don't like building a case for Quinn > Rivera as a HC based on what he's done as a coordinator, but let's ignore that, for conversation's sake. Because you say it's been 6 years since Rivera had any success, but if we are giving Quinn credit strictly for defense (obv), then we should also acknowledge Rivera fielded good defenses in WAS 2020 and 2022, right? When he had the #4 and #7 defenses? Remember he is a defensive HC. Rivera has always had a problem as with offense as a defensive minded head coach. It's his flaw, no doubt. But Quinn has a problem with defense as a defensive minded head coach. Which is a lot more concerning, imo. He averaged fielding the 19th ranked defense over 6 years as a HC. --- Talent wise, we are giving a lot of credit to Cam for having an MVP season in 2015 but they at least had the #6 defense (#1 in turnovers), so it feels like a solid all around team. This wasn't Cam carrying some bums despite Ron. Defensively, they had talent. Agreed. But Quinn's quite literally known for having one of the most talented defenses of all time (LoB) and his Dal D ain't exactly devoid of talent either imo. Offensively, Quinn coincidentally ALSO had an MVP (+HoF WR) and arguably one of the top 20 offensive minds ever and his signature season was certainly carried by their offense because they had the 27th ranked defense at the time. So sure, Rivera had some talent, but obviously Quinn did too, so I don't see the doing more with less argument tbh I think Rivera checked out in WAS, for sure. But at the time of hire I don't even think it's comparable that Rivera was a much better candidate. And quite frankly, if I didn't have a toxic org, I might still take Rivera over Quinn and that's not a compliment towards Rivera lol. - note all these rankings are by points but we can do whatever bc i dont think it skews the results much The Q though is whether Quinn upgrades Rivera now. I don’t necessarily agree with these points but more importantly I don’t think any of the above changes the fact anyone above Hackett-level upgrades the present day version of Ron Rivera. In your own view - Rivera checked out a long time ago. That alone makes the case. Edited February 8 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, Broncofan said: The Q is whether Quinn upgrades Rivera now. Disagree. If Hue Jackson is "upgraded" by Freddie Kitchens, it doesn't make Freddie a good hire. And tbh I'm not 100% sure which one is Quinn and which one is Rivera. 5 minutes ago, Broncofan said: In your own view - Rivera checked out a long time ago. That alone makes the case. As the Commanders coach I think you're almost certainly right, but we will see. As coaches in general, I think I'm more inclined to believe a retread with a better resume can refresh his career in a new location than a retread with a lesser resume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 10 minutes ago, Broncofan said: The Q though is whether Quinn upgrades Rivera now. I don’t necessarily agree with these points but more importantly I don’t think any of the above changes the fact anyone above Hackett-level upgrades the present day version of Ron Rivera. In your own view - Rivera checked out a long time ago. That alone makes the case. I am one of the biggest advocates of RR 2.0, but at the same time, I would agree. I think there is a hunger in DQ to do this and do it well that I didn't see from RR in the four years. I cannot argue that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 This is starting to get ridiculous 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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