pwny Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 2 hours ago, ChazStandard said: Look at Jacksonville, they only have 2 out of those 3, and will probably take their division at a walk. I mean that really isn’t comparable at all. I really don’t want to turn this into the “pwny talks about how amazing the Jaguars are” thread, but the Jaguars have been playing some downright incredible football in those other aspects. The Jaguars pass defense that might be the most effective in the NFL since the introduction of the chuck rule. They create sacks and turnovers at an alarming rate. QBs have a 66.4 passer rating against them. Their defense is #1 in points scored by nearly 2 full points. Since adding Dareus, they are #2 or #3 in run defense in the league. The defense consistently puts the offense in positions to score, and the offense is actually the 7th highest scoring offense in football. And they back up that defense with the #1 rushing offense in football. Putting this all together, the Jaguars are third in the NFL in net points. This isn’t a team that you can point to and say “they’re doing it without a QB, so could this other team”. And even with all of this other stuff playing so well, everyone is still waiting for the other shoe to drop and this team to turn back into a pumpkin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, iPwn said: I mean that really isn’t comparable at all. I really don’t want to turn this into the “pwny talks about how amazing the Jaguars are” thread, but the Jaguars have been playing some downright incredible football in those other aspects. The Jaguars pass defense that might be the most effective in the NFL since the introduction of the chuck rule. They create sacks and turnovers at an alarming rate. QBs have a 66.4 passer rating against them. Their defense is #1 in points scored by nearly 2 full points. Since adding Dareus, they are #2 or #3 in run defense in the league. The defense consistently puts the offense in positions to score, and the offense is actually the 7th highest scoring offense in football. And they back up that defense with the #1 rushing offense in football. Putting this all together, the Jaguars are third in the NFL in net points. This isn’t a team that you can point to and say “they’re doing it without a QB, so could this other team”. And even with all of this other stuff playing so well, everyone is still waiting for the other shoe to drop and this team to turn back into a pumpkin. but you did anyways. well done pwny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 3 hours ago, iPwn said: I mean that really isn’t comparable at all. I really don’t want to turn this into the “pwny talks about how amazing the Jaguars are” thread, but the Jaguars have been playing some downright incredible football in those other aspects. The Jaguars pass defense that might be the most effective in the NFL since the introduction of the chuck rule. They create sacks and turnovers at an alarming rate. QBs have a 66.4 passer rating against them. Their defense is #1 in points scored by nearly 2 full points. Since adding Dareus, they are #2 or #3 in run defense in the league. The defense consistently puts the offense in positions to score, and the offense is actually the 7th highest scoring offense in football. And they back up that defense with the #1 rushing offense in football. Putting this all together, the Jaguars are third in the NFL in net points. This isn’t a team that you can point to and say “they’re doing it without a QB, so could this other team”. And even with all of this other stuff playing so well, everyone is still waiting for the other shoe to drop and this team to turn back into a pumpkin. The Eagles are a starting LT and MLB(both injured) away from being a very similar version of what the Jags are now. The Jags DBs are obviously way better, but the Eagles could find similar success with Nick Foles at QB. Yeah, the Jags defense would be better, but the Eagles were leading the league in PPG and point differential before Wentz got hurt. If the offense can stay efficient and help the defense out by controlling the football, there is hope the Eagles can win some games in January. Maybe that isn't the exact blueprint the Jags have used, but the situations could be considered similar. I highly doubt either team makes it to the conference championship game, time will tell as we have yet to see the Eagles play a single game with Foles at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesehawk Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: The Eagles are a starting LT and MLB(both injured) away from being a very similar version of what the Jags are now. The Jags DBs are obviously way better, but the Eagles could find similar success with Nick Foles at QB. Yeah, the Jags defense would be better, but the Eagles were leading the league in PPG and point differential before Wentz got hurt. If the offense can stay efficient and help the defense out by controlling the football, there is hope the Eagles can win some games in January. Maybe that isn't the exact blueprint the Jags have used, but the situations could be considered similar. I highly doubt either team makes it to the conference championship game, time will tell as we have yet to see the Eagles play a single game with Foles at QB. I have a hard time seeing the Jags not making the conference championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, packerrfan74 said: I have a hard time seeing the Jags not making the conference championship. You really think the Jags play in the conference championship over NE or Pitt? That is a pretty bold prediction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: the Eagles were leading the league in PPG and point differential before Wentz got hurt. Yes. With Wentz. Does Wentz only make your offense 2 points better per game over a mediocre QB? Because that’s the difference between the Jaguars and Eagles net points. If so, I’m not even sure how you can argue that he was even in the discussion for MVP. If the Eagles are scoring 32 ppg and they could still get 30 without Wentz, he’s not really that valuable. He’s not even as valuable to his team’s success as someone like Ryan Fitzpatrick if that’s all he offers. And if, on a whole season, he’s only worth 4 TDs more than a bottom 10 starting QB, maybe he’s not even that good of a QB and is just being propped up by the rest of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesehawk Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: You really think the Jags play in the conference championship over NE or Pitt? That is a pretty bold prediction. I saw that JAX defense destroy the Steelers once already this season.. no doubt they could do it again. Would be a lot to handle for the Patriots as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Just now, iPwn said: Yes. With Wentz. Does Wentz only make your offense 2 points better per game over a mediocre QB? Because that’s the difference between the Jaguars and Eagles net points. If so, I’m not even sure how you can argue that he was even in the discussion for MVP. If the Eagles are scoring 32 ppg and they could still get 30 without Wentz, he’s not really that valuable. He’s not even as valuable to his team’s success as someone like Ryan Fitzpatrick if that’s all he offers. And if, on a whole season, he’s only worth 4 TDs more than a bottom 10 starting QB, maybe he’s not even that good of a QB and is just being propped up by the rest of the team. Like I said already, I want to see Nick Foles play at least a game or two before I jump to any conclusions on how bad our offense will be. I don't think it is impossible that the Eagles can play a controlled, time possession offense that dominates on the ground and lets our very good DL go to work late in games. I never said we would be scoring 32ppg without Wentz, I merely suggested that our offense could be good enough to win football games. I have no clue how you make what I said into a discussion about how valuable Wentz is as I never said we would be the best offense in football without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 I imagine once Nick Foles beats down on a crappy Giants team y'all can get a nice haul for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 3 hours ago, ChazStandard said: Jax have the better secondary, but the DLs and RB groups are a wash, and Philly's WR/TE groups is definitely better. So the group focused around benefiting from a better QB is better? Colored me shocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 1 minute ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: I never said we would be scoring 32ppg without Wentz, I merely suggested that our offense could be good enough to win football games. I have no clue how you make what I said into a discussion about how valuable Wentz is as I never said we would be the best offense in football without him. You said the following: 44 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: the Eagles could find similar success with Nick Foles at QB. Apparently I don’t know what “similar success” is. Because I thought similar success meant having success at a similar level. With Wentz, the Eagles are 10-3. The Jaguars are 9-4. Similar success, to me, means the Eagles would still be a team with a record around that of 9-4. Maybe they’re 8-5, but...similar. The Jaguars have the #3 point differential. Similar success, to me, means the Eagles would be a team with a point differential around that of #3 overall. Maybe they are 4th, but again, ...similar. To be similarly successful, the Eagles would have to only lose one more game than they have so far. They would have to have a point differential that only drops 2 points per game. So, either the Eagles wouldn’t be similarly successful or Wentz doesn’t actually make them much of a better team over having *below average* QB play. It has to be one or the other. It can’t be both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 15 minutes ago, iPwn said: You said the following: Apparently I don’t know what “similar success” is. Because I thought similar success meant having success at a similar level. With Wentz, the Eagles are 10-3. The Jaguars are 9-4. Similar success, to me, means the Eagles would still be a team with a record around that of 9-4. Maybe they’re 8-5, but...similar. The Jaguars have the #3 point differential. Similar success, to me, means the Eagles would be a team with a point differential around that of #3 overall. Maybe they are 4th, but again, ...similar. To be similarly successful, the Eagles would have to only lose one more game than they have so far. They would have to have a point differential that only drops 2 points per game. So, either the Eagles wouldn’t be similarly successful or Wentz doesn’t actually make them much of a better team over having *below average* QB play. It has to be one or the other. It can’t be both. You took the word similar and made an argument about something I never tried discussing. When I said similar success I meant in terms of winning football games, not getting MVP level play from their QB. The Eagles are 11-2 btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: You took the word similar and made an argument about something I never tried discussing. When I said similar success I meant in terms of winning football games, not getting MVP level play from their QB. The Eagles are 11-2 btw. So they’d have a top 5 record in football without Wentz, and top 3 scoring differential? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Just now, iPwn said: So they’d have a top 5 record in football without Wentz, and top 3 scoring differential? I think we could be a good football team with Nick Foles at QB. The Eagles have a lot of talent even without Wentz. The difference will have to be instead of depending on him to make hero plays constantly we will need to be more consirvative and control the football. Less throwing more running. Saying they would have the best record in football without Wentz would be silly but saying they wouldn’t be a playoff team without him also seems hasty. I have already said I think it is unlikely the Eagles make it past the divisional round withou Wentz, but anything can happen. As I have already said twice, I want to see Foles play a couple games before I come to a conclusion on how good the Eagles can be without Wentz. Jumping to a conclusion before then seems silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee & Contemplation Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 I really hate this. I'm anything but an Eagles fan, but I'm a huge fan of Wentz. I really didn't see him play in college, and didn't pay attention during the draft that year. Last year I just knew the Eags had some new kid as QB. I forgot the game but I remember watching him play and being immediately blown away. He obviously didn't have it all together yet, but man, he could make the throws. I've only been able to see a handful of games of his this year, but obviously he was continuing to grow and progress. I really hope this doesn't set his career back significantly. It does suck that it happened so late in the year, but NFL players have seemingly perfected ACL recoveries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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