Forge Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, NcFinest9erFan said: http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/01/49ers-target-pass-rusher-with-first-pick-in-4-round-mock-nfl-draft/ I had to stop reading after Landry at 9. Just no way can I see him go in the top 10. I have a hard enough time seeing him in the first round, though I admit the possibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48 1/2ers Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 19 minutes ago, Forge said: I had to stop reading after Landry at 9. Just no way can I see him go in the top 10. I have a hard enough time seeing him in the first round, though I admit the possibility Even if he has a killer combine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 14 minutes ago, 48 1/2ers said: Even if he has a killer combine? I don't think he'll crush the combine, but there's a chance. At that point my opinion on him likely won't change (I think he has a chance to be a solid / good rotational pass rusher) but I could understand the impetus for putting him higher in mock drafts. I don't want to make it sound like I hate him as a prospect, I just kind of think he is what he is, and I don't know that he's the premium pass rusher prospect that a lot of people thought he was going to be. Kinda similar to Dee Ford a few years ago. They aren't the same player, obviously, but I don't think people looked at Ford and saw an elite pass rusher in the NFL, but rather a pretty solid one with some double digit potential in a rotational spot. Ford ended up going in the first round and higher than I thought, so Landry absolutely could...but man, for the life of me, I don't know what kind of combine he would have to have to make me want to take him in the top 10. I just think that h'es too limited for that. Give me the upside of Davenport at that spot over limitations of Landry if I have to go with an edge rusher there (though I'd probably wait for round 2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudyZ Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 55 minutes ago, NcFinest9erFan said: http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/01/49ers-target-pass-rusher-with-first-pick-in-4-round-mock-nfl-draft/ I like it, except Cain, who I wonder who we missed out on or pass over in order to settle with. I know Landry doesn't get a lot of love around here, but if he can deliver sacks, he'd make the rest of our DL that much better. I actually haven't watched him at all. I should get on that. Evaluating pass rushers has always been fun, for me. Remember when you guys loved Everette Brown?! I WAS RIGHT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudyZ Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Okay, I just watched two games of Landry. He's a great athlete, quick and strong, very agile, change of direction, good bend, good leverage. He only lacks the hands. In the two games, I never saw him use any kind of move. No swim, no rip, very rarely disengages. I'm not sure, but he plays as if his arms are short. I don't know if they are, but once a lineman has his hands on him and good extension, he's basically done. So, he tries to beat them with his feet, and I don't think that works in the NFL, where OL have much great lateral mobility. So yeah, after these two games, I wouldn't take him in the top 10. On the other hand, it's technique, and it can be taught. If he's deemed coachable, the tools are there. He looks pretty strong. Even in 2015, he wasn't getting swallowed up by opposing OL, and I can only assume he got stronger since. There's a lot to like with him athletically. He looks like a very good football player, but the lack of hand technique prevents him from being a first round lock, for me. But still, he's better than Everette Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudyZ Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Currently watching Okoronkwo. He looks even quicker, but he's a little bit smaller. But he has very quick active hands and uses them to disengage. He has the quickness, strength and body control to split double teams at times (and I just saw him beat a triple team to tackle a RB). He plays a little bit higher, so he probably doesn't have the same leverage. But he seems very aware of how the play is unfolding, often jumps and raises his hands to block a passing lane. He's just 243lbs, though. He looks good in space, I wonder if he could be a Sam on base downs and move down to DE on passing downs. His speed and agility could work well with the rest of our line. Sidenote: it sucks sometimes to watch games against mobile QBs, because the DEs often spend a good fraction of their plays just doing QB contain, and no actual rush. Okay, I just saw him used a nasty step to beat Ohio St's RT. Okay, watching this Ohio St game, I'd really love to draft him. Sam/Leo combo. Having him as a blitzer at times from the Sam spot would be deadly. We could use Blair and Marsh at Leo in the meantime, and on obvious passing downs, he could just put his hand in the dirt and bring pressure. Wow... great spin move now. Perfectly set up. I like him. I wonder what @Chrissooner49er thinks about him..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudyZ Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 If only Joe Ostman, Central Michigan, was faster, he'd be very interesting. He plays with strength, leverage and violent hands. But too slow. He looks like the type of guy whose best chance to have a long career would be to become a long snapper. Too bad. If he had even just average speed, he'd be at worst a rotational player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 40 minutes ago, rudyZ said: Okay, I just watched two games of Landry. He's a great athlete, quick and strong, very agile, change of direction, good bend, good leverage. He only lacks the hands. In the two games, I never saw him use any kind of move. No swim, no rip, very rarely disengages. I'm not sure, but he plays as if his arms are short. I don't know if they are, but once a lineman has his hands on him and good extension, he's basically done. So, he tries to beat them with his feet, and I don't think that works in the NFL, where OL have much great lateral mobility. So yeah, after these two games, I wouldn't take him in the top 10. On the other hand, it's technique, and it can be taught. If he's deemed coachable, the tools are there. He looks pretty strong. Even in 2015, he wasn't getting swallowed up by opposing OL, and I can only assume he got stronger since. There's a lot to like with him athletically. He looks like a very good football player, but the lack of hand technique prevents him from being a first round lock, for me. But still, he's better than Everette Brown. Basically, his moves are speed, and the speed dip where he runs around and under the tackle. I would disagree that he's strong - I Think he's going to get bullied at the next level pretty easily. Not that that's really an issue for him - he lives and dies on speed / bend / quickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudyZ Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Arden Key, now.. through two games, he just doesn't look strong enough. Body control and agility, and lots of speed, and hints at good pass rushing abilities, but not strong enough. He has some hand technique. I just saw a good club move. Has the long arms you'd like in an edge rusher. Another sidenote: watching the game against LSU, Kerryon Johnson is good. Looks so much like Le'veon Bell. Got fooled by a reverse, but generally looks decent at diagnosing the play. Used a very useless spin move (à la Everette Brown). On stunts, he never seems to find a crease, but maybe that's just the OL being really good at picking it up. Okay, through four games. Some things to love. Body type, speed, agility, long arms, some hand techniques. Some things not to love, strength, level of effort. You'd like him to be a little thicker, perhaps (and stronger at the same time). From the little I've read about him, he doesn't seem to be the most committed and interested guy. On pure football talent, I and everyone would draft him way ahead of a guy like Harold Landry. But the latter is stronger and seems to be working harder on every single down. His flaws aren't mental, they're technique. Key, do you really know what you're getting, if you draft him? Will he be ready to work his butt off? Can you coach him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudyZ Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, Forge said: Basically, his moves are speed, and the speed dip where he runs around and under the tackle. I would disagree that he's strong - I Think he's going to get bullied at the next level pretty easily. Not that that's really an issue for him - he lives and dies on speed / bend / quickness. I watched him against Notre Dame, and on one play, he stood his ground against a McGlinchy/Nelson double team. On another, he got buried, and Nelson just rolled through him a second time. He's perhaps not the guy who'll set up the edge against the very best, but for a 250lbs rusher, he seems plenty strong enough in his rush. Sometimes it doesn't show, because he gets inside the reach of the tackle, and he doesn't have the hand skills to disengage. When we get the measurements at the combine, I'll be very surprised if he has above-average arm length. I feel that's the reason he might get bullied at the next level. You can still succeed in the NFL with shorter arms, at times, but you need great technique. In any case, there doesn't seem to be anyone that's worth the 9/10 pick, as a pass rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 14 minutes ago, rudyZ said: I watched him against Notre Dame, and on one play, he stood his ground against a McGlinchy/Nelson double team. On another, he got buried, and Nelson just rolled through him a second time. He's perhaps not the guy who'll set up the edge against the very best, but for a 250lbs rusher, he seems plenty strong enough in his rush. Sometimes it doesn't show, because he gets inside the reach of the tackle, and he doesn't have the hand skills to disengage. When we get the measurements at the combine, I'll be very surprised if he has above-average arm length. I feel that's the reason he might get bullied at the next level. You can still succeed in the NFL with shorter arms, at times, but you need great technique. In any case, there doesn't seem to be anyone that's worth the 9/10 pick, as a pass rusher. The play where nelson basically just destroys him into the ground while he's being blocked by McGlinchey is hilarious. But I don't see a heavy punch or anything in his hands, poor lower level strength with a bad push in my opinion, which is why he gets thrown around in the run game. I just don't see the strength. Anyone can lock up and engage, and if it's a pass play, there's really no reason for the offensive line to push him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 50 minutes ago, rudyZ said: Currently watching Okoronkwo. Interesting dude at 6' 1" yet has freakish 34.5" arm length. Just watched some of his Kansas State game. Walked away not really loving him, but it's just a glance so far. Looked a bit stiff, and not powerful. Just sort of.. there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48 1/2ers Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, rudyZ said: Okoronkwo I'd love him as a pick if we trade down in the 1st, I havent heard much 1st round buzz for Double O but him and Dumervil would be the perfect vet/rookie pair for him to learn from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 With regards to edge guys, there's just not enough love for Duke Ejiofor. i like him more than Okoronkwo, but i don't know where he fits. Is he a true LEO? Speed / athleticism / etc aren't really his specialty...but man, technically very good, plays a great mental game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 46 minutes ago, 48 1/2ers said: I'd love him as a pick if we trade down in the 1st, I havent heard much 1st round buzz for Double O but him and Dumervil would be the perfect vet/rookie pair for him to learn from. Just from general consensus I've seen in various mocks is that he's more of a guy that is in play in middle to late round 2. Not sure though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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