If your team needed a HC AND GM, would you want Bill Belichick?

[ChazStandard]

People have short memories, already losing all respect for The Hoodie just two years from making the play-offs with a rookie QB.

As far as game prep, mindset, reading the game, making judgment calls, planning a defence and getting the most out of his players is concerned, nobody has ever done it better than Bill. If I were choosing a coach to win a single game of football to save my life, I would choose him every day and twice on Sundays (pun very much intended).

...but only if he doesn't get to pick the team.

The hard truth is BB the coach (and Brady the QB) covered for the deficiencies of BB the GM for well over a decade. He was never a great drafter, taking the "draft a lot of players and hope they pan out" approach, over-drafting DBs in the second round on a comically regular basis and missing at WR every. Single. Time. His coaching career may not be "nothing without Brady", but his drafting history basically is. That 199th pick props up thousands of mediocre ones.

He and Brady won 6 SBs together, but if not for the appalling offensive groupings he put together in 05, 06, 13 and 19 it could have been 7+. Part of that is luck, but a big part isn't.

I still say he's the best coach ever to do it, partly because he was handicapped by drafting his own players. 

Edited January 6 by ChazStandard

[HTTRDynasty]

I don’t think there’s a snowball’s chance in hell of BB joining a nw team as HC without also taking on GM responsibilities; namely, drafting his own players. 
 

A team would have to be in desperate win-now mode to want that IMO. 

[game3525]

Quote

I don’t think there’s a snowball’s chance in hell of BB joining a nw team as HC without also taking on GM responsibilities; namely, drafting his own players

It is going to be like how it is in KC, Seattle, and Denver now. They will bring in a "GM", but the head coach will be the most important guy in the building. That is the set up for most teams with a top tier head coach outside of Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, and Baltimore. It will be the same deal with Harbaugh if he leaves Michigan. 

[Nabbs4u]

5 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

Montana won a sb without Walsh too

Seifert took over a Bill Walsh Juggernaut littered with HOF'rs. Does Montana winning without Walsh take away from his greatness too? Aikman without Jimmy?

Or is George Seifert a Top 5 HC because he won 2 SB with 2 separate HOF QB's in 6 years?

[CP3MVP]

11 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

Seifert took over a Bill Walsh Juggernaut littered with HOF'rs. Does Montana winning without Walsh take away from his greatness too? Aikman without Jimmy?

Or is George Seifert a Top 5 HC because he won 2 SB with 2 separate HOF QB's in 6 years?

If we had a 100 plus game sample size of Walsh without Montana across two different organizations over ten different QBs and it was a terrible record, than yes we would have to re evaluate Walsh.

 

Seifert isn’t a top 5 HC regardless and he was exposed in Carolina. 

Edited January 6 by CP3MVP

[CP3MVP]

3 hours ago, Xmad said:

Almost like it's hard to win in the NFL without a competent QB or offense or something.

Time tells all tales and the one that matters most is there is no Tom Brady without Bill and no Bill 8 rings without Brady.

One won two rings without the other, one won one ring without the other. 

Also **** it just for bonus points 

Chuck Noll without Bradshaw: 61-80.

Another scrub head coach made into a Hall of Famer by an all-time great QB, right?

 

The time will tell that Brady won a chip without Bill and Bill has won 1 playoff game without Brady. Bro nobody cares about rings as DC man lol. 
 

Chuck knolls record without Bradshaw is absolutely a knock on him.

 

Also what’s the evidence that Brady would be nothing without Bill?

Edited January 6 by CP3MVP

[CP3MVP]

2 hours ago, iknowcool said:

Do you think Tom Brady is 5 Super Bowls better than Peyton Manning?  

What’s funny about this is all of Peyton’s head coaches have a higher winning percentage without Peyton than Bill Has without Tom lol. And more success in the playoffs I might add with the exception of Mora. 

[Nabbs4u]

2 minutes ago, CP3MVP said:

The time will tell that Brady won a chip without Bill and Bill has won 1 playoff game without Brady. Bro nobody cares about rings as DC man lol. 
 

Chuck knolls record without Bradshaw is absolutely a knock on him.

That right there is a prime example. You honestly believe Terry Bradshaw wins 4 SB without the "Steel Curtain" Defense Chuck Knolls built? No Different then Brady-Belichick but a compliment to one another. 

FQB are hard to find! Don't grow on trees. You're knocking him because the Steelers as a Organization couldn't find another FQB for 22 years until Big Ben? Because Stoudt, Malone Brister and O'Donnell weren't FQB? Shocker!

https://positivelypittsburgh.com/emperor-chaz/#:~:text=From 1960-1961%2C Noll served,Baltimore Colts from 1966-1968.

[CP3MVP]

2 hours ago, ChazStandard said:

People have short memories, already losing all respect for The Hoodie just two years from making the play-offs with a rookie QB.

As far as game prep, mindset, reading the game, making judgment calls, planning a defence and getting the most out of his players is concerned, nobody has ever done it better than Bill. If I were choosing a coach to win a single game of football to save my life, I would choose him every day and twice on Sundays (pun very much intended).

...but only if he doesn't get to pick the team.

The hard truth is BB the coach (and Brady the QB) covered for the deficiencies of BB the GM for well over a decade. He was never a great drafter, taking the "draft a lot of players and hope they pan out" approach, over-drafting DBs in the second round on a comically regular basis and missing at WR every. Single. Time. His coaching career may not be "nothing without Brady", but his drafting history basically is. That 199th pick props up thousands of mediocre ones.

He and Brady won 6 SBs together, but if not for the appalling offensive groupings he put together in 05, 06, 13 and 19 it could have been 7+. Part of that is luck, but a big part isn't.

I still say he's the best coach ever to do it, partly because he was handicapped by drafting his own players. 

He’s good too great at drafting/devolving Offensive lineman, Lbs, and Corners. Everything else nah.
 

Even with the line though most of that credit should go to Scar

[Soggust]

I don't care how great Tom Brady and Bill Parcells were, no one is going to convince me that some mediocre journeyman coach got carried to 6 Super Bowls as a HC and 2 as a DC.

I'm also not going to be convinced this freakin' nerd historian of the game just 'let the game pass him by' and just doesn't understand the X's and O's in 2024.

I think Occom's Razor is that Mac Jones just stinks and he's certainly not the first GM to miss on a FQB.

If that means he should never be allowed to be a GM again, so be it, but I think the coach is worth the risk as GM personally.

[CP3MVP]

8 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

That right there is a prime example. You honestly believe Terry Bradshaw wins 4 SB without the "Steel Curtain" Defense Chuck Knolls built? No Different then Brady-Belichick but a compliment to one another. 

FQB are hard to find! Don't grow on trees. You're knocking him because the Steelers as a Organization couldn't find another FQB for 22 years until Big Ben? Because Stoudt, Malone Brister and O'Donnell weren't FQB? Shocker!

https://positivelypittsburgh.com/emperor-chaz/#:~:text=From 1960-1961%2C Noll served,Baltimore Colts from 1966-1968.

1.)Bradshaw is one of the most overrated QBs ever, but I don’t think he would need a GOAT level defense to win a chip or two. There’d a big gap between steel curtain and standard defense that wins a Super Bowl. 
 

2.)I would knock him if he had zero real success without a HOF Qb. You shouldn’t need that. Doug Marrone went to an AFC title game with Blake Bortles, Rex Ryan went to back to back afc title games with Mark Sanchez. John Fox went to a freaking superbowl with My man Jake Delhomme. Dungy went to an NFC title game with Shaun King. 

Edited January 6 by CP3MVP

[CP3MVP]

1 minute ago, Soggust said:

I don't care how great Tom Brady and Bill Parcells were, no one is going to convince me that some mediocre journeyman coach got carried to 6 Super Bowls as a HC and 2 as a DC.

I'm also not going to be convinced this freakin' nerd historian of the game just 'let the game pass him by' and just doesn't understand the X's and O's in 2024.

I think Occom's Razor is that Mac Jones just stinks and he's certainly not the first GM to miss on a FQB.

If that means he should never be allowed to be a GM again, so be it, but I think the coach is worth the risk as GM personally.

Coaches like players fall off all the time in sports. 

[Tank4Drake]

72 and not proven a damn thing without Brady. You’d be out of your mind to make him HC.

[Tank4Drake]

8 minutes ago, Soggust said:

I don't care how great Tom Brady and Bill Parcells were, no one is going to convince me that some mediocre journeyman coach got carried to 6 Super Bowls as a HC and 2 as a DC.

I'm also not going to be convinced this freakin' nerd historian of the game just 'let the game pass him by' and just doesn't understand the X's and O's in 2024.

I think Occom's Razor is that Mac Jones just stinks and he's certainly not the first GM to miss on a FQB.

If that means he should never be allowed to be a GM again, so be it, but I think the coach is worth the risk as GM personally.

Coaches get figured out all the time… and sometimes the older you get, the less sharp you are. In the NFL, you have to reinvent your scheme every few years. 

[Soggust]

7 minutes ago, CP3MVP said:

Coaches like players fall off all the time in sports. 

They also go through bad stretches like all players, right?

Like, why is this "falling off" as opposed to his last year in CLE or first year in NE? Because of age?

You obv know pats more than me, so I ask in good faith:

Was BB preventing Mac from being great and carrying them to playoff success? Or did Mac prove that he isn't an NFL QB, in your mind? (again asking legit this isn't a setup)

Feels like it's just hard to win in the NFL and in a 30 year career you just bound to have some stinkers, esp when you can't figure out the QB position. Now most HC's don't get the leniency of a few years, but I personally feel like 8 SB rings should give you free entry to any clubhouse in America.

 

Just now, Tank4Drake said:

Coaches get figured out all the time… and sometimes the older you get, the less sharp you are. In the NFL, you have to reinvent your scheme every few years. 

After like 27 years the guy got figured out? Idk, I think it's just easier to say it's hard to win without a franchise QB.

Now, that might still be his fault, but I see it as a GM problem not a HC problem, personally.