Is Ted Thompson this bad or was he never that good?

[Norm]

30 minutes ago, th87 said:

Yes, I think it is.

Okay. That's cool. Me too. That's kind of my deal too. There's this idea from some, we're a four win team without him. Without defining who the QB is, if we get to plan for it, do we get to use Rodgers money if he's gone, that kind of thing.

[cooters22]

4 hours ago, StinkySauce said:

Yep.

Since 2010, the Packers haven't had better than the 21st position in the draft.  Four of those years they've had the 28th position or worse.  Possibly you forgot how awesome the Packers have been before making the post, but there you are.

Anytime you have one of the top qb's in the game you dang near automatically are a .500 team, the rest is up to the GM and coaches. 

[cooters22]

9 hours ago, Dubz41 said:

I'll split this in two.  TT first half career as GBs draft guru and his second half.

First half he was restocking the cupboard.  Drafting in middle to upper teens on average.  Good job, filled a lot of spots.

Second half was tougher, now drafting mid to late twenties trying to fill spots on a  team that was usually in the playoffs.

TT was/is a good drafter.  His biggest flaw was lack of using FA to fill holes the draft choices couldn't.

All the rest is conjecture.  I'm sure it is tough when you lose so many top personnel men, but we have remained in the playoffs ever since. See if we make it again.

You are spot on but why has he been so thickheaded about FA? Reports of different guys in the front office ticked at times because he refused to go out and get someone at a position that we were weak in. The safety position a few years back was a joke and it took way too many years to fill it is an example. 

[cooters22]

4 hours ago, StinkySauce said:

Yep.

Since 2010, the Packers haven't had better than the 21st position in the draft.  Four of those years they've had the 28th position or worse.  Possibly you forgot how awesome the Packers have been before making the post, but there you are.

So then why not bring in FA talent if you can't get find it in the draft? The worse you draft should only help you have more money in FA in around about way to some extent. 

[cooters22]

So in my original post I stated that maybe the loss of John Dorsey has had more than a negative effect on our drafting than we thought. Our drafts since he left haven't been great, but his last draft in 2012 hadn't been great either. And as far as drafting in the late 20's, yes that matters but not as much as you'd think. This year I wanted Joe Mixon or TJ Watt as the picks, last year I was steamed when they traded up to get Spriggs when I wanted Deion Jones. So we've had opportunities to get studs or good players. And sure hindsight is 20/20 but it just seems like we aren't hitting on our picks lately, especially on the defensive side of the ball. 

[Norm]

16 minutes ago, cooters22 said:

So then why not bring in FA talent if you can't get find it in the draft? The worse you draft should only help you have more money in FA in around about way to some extent. 

That just happened cooters.

Evans. Bennett. Kendricks. Brooks. Dial. RJF. House.

Just didn't work.

[StinkySauce]

8 minutes ago, cooters22 said:

So then why not bring in FA talent if you can't get find it in the draft? The worse you draft should only help you have more money in FA in around about way to some extent. 

People always say this ... bring in free agent talent!  First of all, there aren’t any great deals out there; and second, honestly, the younger FAs out there aren’t scrambling to sign contracts to come to Green Bay.  And finally, the Packers usually have some money to spend and they usually spend it on their own guys.  Sure, you’re bored of the guys TT drafts, I get it.  But the Cobbs and the Nelsons and the Danielses and the Bakhtiaris are guys who are willing to spend a lot of years in GB.  If you pay enough money, most guys will play anywhere.  But those guys are almost never worth the cash.  

Could we do more?  Maybe.  But there are maybe one or two teams in the FA era who have managed to do it and still remain competitive every year.  And the Packers are one of those teams.

[cannondale]

There has been a fall off in talent brought in the last few years.

If you can hit on a third or fourth rounder, no reason not to hit when drafting 28. We haven't had as many hits lately. Granted it's harder to find All Pros at 28, but we've been missing badly.

[cooters22]

2 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said:

That just happened cooters.

Evans. Bennett. Kendricks. Brooks. Dial. RJF. House.

Just didn't work.

So a friend and I were talking about why is it that Shields retired and we never took that money and put it towards a starting shutdown type corner? It was obvious we needed one. And yes I get it we drafted one, but that position stunk last year and this year it's only marginally better, but it is better. NE went out and got one like the first day of FA, we never even brought in a first tier type guy. 

[Norm]

3 minutes ago, cannondale said:

There has been a fall off in talent brought in the last few years.

If you can hit on a third or fourth rounder, no reason not to hit when drafting 28. We haven't had as many hits lately. Granted it's harder to find All Pros at 28, but we've been missing badly.

Lol are you serious with that 3 or 4 round line? What is that logic? Never mind the fact we're NOT missing on all our first picks.. Not even close.

[Norm]

3 minutes ago, cooters22 said:

So a friend and I were talking about why is it that Shields retired and we never took that money and put it towards a starting shutdown type corner? It was obvious we needed one. And yes I get it we drafted one, but that position stunk last year and this year it's only marginally better, but it is better. NE went out and got one like the first day of FA, we never even brought in a first tier type guy. 

Because they were a bazillion dollar contracts. Not that complex in my eyes.

We didn't wanna pay that.

We never bring in first tier guys. You're used to this by now.

[Norm]

13 minutes ago, cooters22 said:

So in my original post I stated that maybe the loss of John Dorsey has had more than a negative effect on our drafting than we thought. Our drafts since he left haven't been great, but his last draft in 2012 hadn't been great either. And as far as drafting in the late 20's, yes that matters but not as much as you'd think. This year I wanted Joe Mixon or TJ Watt as the picks, last year I was steamed when they traded up to get Spriggs when I wanted Deion Jones. So we've had opportunities to get studs or good players. And sure hindsight is 20/20 but it just seems like we aren't hitting on our picks lately, especially on the defensive side of the ball. 

Yet we went up and got Spriggs but also got Clark that year who is very good already and still very young. King looked solid as hell when he was finally injected into the games before the shoulder. So, "we've had opportunities to get good players." And looks like we did.

Don't sleep on Jason yet. He's looking better and that was a high end athlete. 

Is Mixon even better than Aaron Jones so far? Not raw stats. Just look on the field, not sure. Mixon will still project better long term.

I just disagree with the last. Clark is CLEARLY hit. King looked like he belonged right away and he was far from polished, then played with the shoulder so he couldn't press and fell off. Hell 2015 was Randall. Who's allowed what, like 80 yards the last four games?

But we're missing on all our defensive picks lately?

[cooters22]

3 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said:

Because they were a bazillion dollar contracts. Not that complex in my eyes.

We didn't wanna pay that.

We never bring in first tier guys. You're used to this by now.

Yes I get that, but in order to win in the NFL it helps if you have a stud qb, LT, pass rusher and CB. So we overpaid for Perry and were willing to pay Shields but not another guy from another club. That logic doesn't always make sense to me. And yes I'm more than use to it by now. 

[incognito_man]

13 minutes ago, cannondale said:

There has been a fall off in talent brought in the last few years.

If you can hit on a third or fourth rounder, no reason not to hit when drafting 28. We haven't had as many hits lately. Granted it's harder to find All Pros at 28, but we've been missing badly.

probably because we are consistently picking after everyone.

The good news is, TT continues to outdraft his slot.

[Norm]

1 minute ago, cooters22 said:

Yes I get that, but in order to win in the NFL it helps if you have a stud qb, LT, pass rusher and CB. So we overpaid for Perry and were willing to pay Shields but not another guy from another club. That logic doesn't always make sense to me. And yes I'm more than use to it by now. 

I laughed at both those Bouye and Gilmore deals. I'm still not like OMG Gilmore, but Bouye looks very legit to me. I suppose they want to not pay the maximum dollars possible at basically any position be that's what those guys basically were. 

We have two of those things. We need someone to compliment Perry. I'm guessing that's our first pick this coming draft.

Corner, who knows. Though I disagree (you didn't say this, I know, some do though) you need a shutdown stud to win it all, tbh. Though stars anywhere always help.