Steelers 2024 NFL Draft Prospects

[mwalker]

35 minutes ago, rlon said:

The Steelers would be doing themselves a favor if they use free agency to reduce their significant draft needs to OL, WR, and CB. These are the strongest areas of this draft. This means focusing on and accomplishing the signing free agents at safety, defensive line, and linebacker (basically all three levels of the defense with starter capable veterans). Outside of the strongest areas of this draft, they would be selecting rookies for depth later in the draft, and I think that would be ideal. 

Agree.
Sign C.Watkins and X.McKinney and J.Baker.

[warfelg]

So @armsteeld just to move the conversation over here, I’ll go through what I see on this film:

Play 1 - Lines up against Coburn, a good player in his own right and on an island. Head never goes down to look at the snap, gets a good wide base and latches on the inside.  Does an amazing rip down to take Coburn to the ground and finishes with the pancake.

Play 2 - Siakam Ika of Baylor across from him as the 0T.  Squared him up nicely, again with the head up.  Double team coming from his RG for the help.  He’s nicely got him sealed on this play.  If at all on this play the RG lingered too long on the help and got the late release.  Takes Ika off balance and pancakes him.

Play 3 - This is a nice one. NT is shaded in the A-Gap.  No panic.  Sets square, lets the defender try to shoot across him, uses the defenders own momentum to twist him into the ground for the pancake.

Play 4 - Stonewalls his guy, throws a wrestling move at him to effectively hip toss him over his side.  This was a Linderbaum special IMO of getting the guy on your hip in a stonewall and toss him with the wrestling leverage background.

Play 5 - This is a good movement look.  He’s down blocking to his right.  Opens his hips a little, but he’s in attacking position.  Head up so he’s seeing what he’s hitting.  Does a fantastic job flowing with the play to his man rather than reaching to try to get a hand on him early.  Was able to get the DT to cross his feet because of this and got another pancake. (On another note on this play, woof 64/72 what are you doing? That’s terrible.  You both miss the double going for the guy who has no shot at making a play on the ball carrier.)

Play 6 - Again Ika in the 0T alignment. Good square set up, wide base, great hand placement and leverage.

Play 7 - This gets into some of his issues.  His right arm goes wide at the moment of the snap, and the DT was able to leverage that to having inside hold, which cause Frazier to get into a vulnerable position.  Frazier recovers well here with the counter move.  This should buy the QB time.  For a loss on an island this is not a bad result.  Another aside on this play - #50, you looked for work in the wrong places.  According to PFF - they charged Frazier with giving up the pressure here, but I’m not sure how a delay A-Gap (aka the VWill special) is on Frazier here.  

Play 8 - An interesting design up front with Frazier, 50, 72 all blocking up to the left, and the LG and LT pulling across the formation.  Would like to see Frazier press the line more but he doesn’t gain depth causing the LG to reroute which is good.  Stayed square to the line again which is good, and has eyes on his defender.  Again his arms are outside, but he had good leverage of pad level.  Ended up getting the drive to push his man back and get the pancake.

Play 9 - This is one of my favorites from him because it shows a lot. He’s a 2nd level responsibility guy, and the LB/DT lined up in the A-Gap attempts to get a hand on him but Frazier moved well laterally and almost hits the hole like a RB.  Squares up on the S/LB really quickly and gets hands on him well.  Understands where the RB has to go and turns his defender so his back is to the ball carrier.  Ends up getting a two for 1 out of this.

Play 10 - Mixed back.  Stale mate block, but one of the rare narrow bases from him.

Play 11 - This is my first really bad look from him.  Dips his head at the snap so he loses leverage right away.at this point he’s fighting for dear life to hold the block.  Holy crap that TE is so late off the line that Chop is 3 yards deep before he moves.  Heck Chop nearly gets to take the handoff from the QB.  On top of that 81 just ignores Chop.  I believe Frazier was flagged for holding on this one but man was some of that other play so bad.

Later on he has a rep against Murphy that I love watching because it shows why I love both so much.  Murphy for his speed, Frazier because he understands the pocket and his leverage so well that he knows if he can stay on Murphy’s left, he wins the rep easily.  There’s another one against Texas that shows his help block really well in that he helps square the DL to the LG then comes off and quickly finds work.

On top of that I see many crisp on point snaps from Frazier where he also gets the hand up really quickly.  He’s not really leaning on the ball at his setup as he’s free to swing that arm really easily.

His worst reps came in single man against Sweat in most the season.  Sweat has almost 100 lbs on him.  He was put on an island a lot.  Moved well enough when asked that he wasn’t a liability.

[armsteeld]

18 minutes ago, warfelg said:

So @armsteeld just to move the conversation over here, I’ll go through what I see on this film:

Play 1 - Lines up against Coburn, a good player in his own right and on an island. Head never goes down to look at the snap, gets a good wide base and latches on the inside.  Does an amazing rip down to take Coburn to the ground and finishes with the pancake.

Play 2 - Siakam Ika of Baylor across from him as the 0T.  Squared him up nicely, again with the head up.  Double team coming from his RG for the help.  He’s nicely got him sealed on this play.  If at all on this play the RG lingered too long on the help and got the late release.  Takes Ika off balance and pancakes him.

Play 3 - This is a nice one. NT is shaded in the A-Gap.  No panic.  Sets square, lets the defender try to shoot across him, uses the defenders own momentum to twist him into the ground for the pancake.

Play 4 - Stonewalls his guy, throws a wrestling move at him to effectively hip toss him over his side.  This was a Linderbaum special IMO of getting the guy on your hip in a stonewall and toss him with the wrestling leverage background.

Play 5 - This is a good movement look.  He’s down blocking to his right.  Opens his hips a little, but he’s in attacking position.  Head up so he’s seeing what he’s hitting.  Does a fantastic job flowing with the play to his man rather than reaching to try to get a hand on him early.  Was able to get the DT to cross his feet because of this and got another pancake. (On another note on this play, woof 64/72 what are you doing? That’s terrible.  You both miss the double going for the guy who has no shot at making a play on the ball carrier.)

Play 6 - Again Ika in the 0T alignment. Good square set up, wide base, great hand placement and leverage.

Play 7 - This gets into some of his issues.  His right arm goes wide at the moment of the snap, and the DT was able to leverage that to having inside hold, which cause Frazier to get into a vulnerable position.  Frazier recovers well here with the counter move.  This should buy the QB time.  For a loss on an island this is not a bad result.  Another aside on this play - #50, you looked for work in the wrong places.  According to PFF - they charged Frazier with giving up the pressure here, but I’m not sure how a delay A-Gap (aka the VWill special) is on Frazier here.  

Play 8 - An interesting design up front with Frazier, 50, 72 all blocking up to the left, and the LG and LT pulling across the formation.  Would like to see Frazier press the line more but he doesn’t gain depth causing the LG to reroute which is good.  Stayed square to the line again which is good, and has eyes on his defender.  Again his arms are outside, but he had good leverage of pad level.  Ended up getting the drive to push his man back and get the pancake.

Play 9 - This is one of my favorites from him because it shows a lot. He’s a 2nd level responsibility guy, and the LB/DT lined up in the A-Gap attempts to get a hand on him but Frazier moved well laterally and almost hits the hole like a RB.  Squares up on the S/LB really quickly and gets hands on him well.  Understands where the RB has to go and turns his defender so his back is to the ball carrier.  Ends up getting a two for 1 out of this.

Play 10 - Mixed back.  Stale mate block, but one of the rare narrow bases from him.

Play 11 - This is my first really bad look from him.  Dips his head at the snap so he loses leverage right away.at this point he’s fighting for dear life to hold the block.  Holy crap that TE is so late off the line that Chop is 3 yards deep before he moves.  Heck Chop nearly gets to take the handoff from the QB.  On top of that 81 just ignores Chop.  I believe Frazier was flagged for holding on this one but man was some of that other play so bad.

Later on he has a rep against Murphy that I love watching because it shows why I love both so much.  Murphy for his speed, Frazier because he understands the pocket and his leverage so well that he knows if he can stay on Murphy’s left, he wins the rep easily.  There’s another one against Texas that shows his help block really well in that he helps square the DL to the LG then comes off and quickly finds work.

On top of that I see many crisp on point snaps from Frazier where he also gets the hand up really quickly.  He’s not really leaning on the ball at his setup as he’s free to swing that arm really easily.

His worst reps came in single man against Sweat in most the season.  Sweat has almost 100 lbs on him.  He was put on an island a lot.  Moved well enough when asked that he wasn’t a liability.

Nice video. That being said, you could prepare a similar video on EVERY prospect in this draft class. When watching the entire film game, you'll notice their flaws. These vids are meant to show strengths. I still stand on not drafting a Center early. 

[jebrick]

All draft prospects have some flaw.  I am sure someone could find a flaw in JHJ.  The point is can it be fixed?  That is the gamble.

[warfelg]

10 minutes ago, jebrick said:

All draft prospects have some flaw.  I am sure someone could find a flaw in JHJ.  The point is can it be fixed?  That is the gamble.

Arm length and hand size are two measurables that jump off the page as flaws.  Plays upright too much with his hand set too wide and exposes his chest easily.  His balance when is uses power is suspect and he gets really grabby when pass rushers put swim or dip moves on him as he struggles to flip his hip with those rushes.

[jebrick]

I think Arm length for centers is over blown.  On OTs, sure.  IOL get help.  I worry more about being able to reset on a pass rush and lateral movement.  Can they find and block someone on the move.

[warfelg]

Just now, jebrick said:

I think Arm length for centers is over blown.  On OTs, sure.  IOL get help.  I worry more about being able to reset on a pass rush and lateral movement.  Can they find and block someone on the move.

I think it depends with IOL.  When I see a struggle like JPJ’s which is the grab on cross body rushers, and see short arm length, it’s an explainer to the issue of lack of length means he’s holding to make up for the lack of reach.  It also explains some of his balance issues on counters, because to counter punch with short arms when a defender is moving his shoulder away can mean you over extend.  So he’s basically going to have to learn how to keep defenders closer to him with inside leverage so he can counter those things better.

[jebrick]

His arms are the same length as Creed Humphrey.  Short arms mean nothing.

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, jebrick said:

His arms are the same length as Creed Humphrey.  Short arms mean nothing.

You missed my point then. Creed did not have those same holding and counter movement issues that JPJ has.  That’s where you see short arms and look at tape and use it to understand why things happen on tape.

[jebrick]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

You missed my point then. Creed did not have those same holding and counter movement issues that JPJ has.  That’s where you see short arms and look at tape and use it to understand why things happen on tape.

Which means the arms have nothing to do with it if you have the right coaching.

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Which means the arms have nothing to do with it if you have the right coaching.

Not always. But whatever.

[rlon]

22 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Which means the arms have nothing to do with it if you have the right coaching.

I think arm length is more important at tackle and on the other side of the ball, but to say it means absolutely nothing is a little misleading. 

[jebrick]

2 minutes ago, rlon said:

I think arm length is more important at tackle and on the other side of the ball, but to say it means absolutely nothing is a little misleading. 

If the one of the best centers in the NFL has the same arm length then arm length means next to nothing.  Coaching and movement skills mean more.

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, jebrick said:

If the one of the best centers in the NFL has the same arm length then arm length means next to nothing.  Coaching and movement skills mean more.

Or it means that player has learned to overcome a flaw and it still means something.  It’s all shades of gray and to be this set on it means nothing is misleading.  Kendrick Green has the same arm length as these two.  

[rlon]

15 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Or it means that player has learned to overcome a flaw and it still means something.  It’s all shades of gray and to be this set on it means nothing is misleading.  Kendrick Green has the same arm length as these two.  

It's hard to know what a rookie will overcome, most of the time. Also, it is said above that coaching means more (and movement skills), but maybe it means 'less' can also be telling. Maybe it means that the player hadn't had the right type of coaching in college and will blossom under a new/pro level coach. Van Pran comes to mind there.

Hopefully, there are 5-6 good centers in this draft. I am hoping to not have to take one so early, given the depth of talent at OT, WR and CB. Not too mention the other needs (LB, DL and S).