FF's Big Board #4

[MaddHatter]

Discussion and voting on the top 50 spots of the FF Big Board.  Big Boards should be built around best player, regardless of positional value or team needs.

[Daniel]

Until measurements say something red flaggy, I think it’s Nabers. Bowers is close though.

[MaddHatter]

If I have Nabers, Rome and Bowers equal, but it's a Deep WR class where #10 WR is still a solid day 1 starter but a weak TE Class where you may have 2 NFL starters in the entire draft, do you elevate Bowers above Nabers and Rome?  

[Daniel]

2 minutes ago, MaddHatter said:

If I have Nabers, Rome and Bowers equal, but it's a Deep WR class where #10 WR is still a solid day 1 starter but a weak TE Class where you may have 2 NFL starters in the entire draft, do you elevate Bowers above Nabers and Rome?  

No.  WR is a way, way more valuable position.  And I honestly think Odunze and Bowers are pretty close to equal as prospects without getting into positional value.  Nabers is above them imo (unless he's tiny).  He absolutely took over games this season, which is one of those intangible things on a prospect that gets me every time.  Tape where a guy does whatever he wants, and the other team throws everything that they can at him to stop it, and can't, is my catnip.  And that was Nabers vs. Missisippi State.  One of the best college performances by a WR I can ever remember seeing.

[MaddHatter]

21 minutes ago, Daniel said:

No.  WR is a way, way more valuable position.  And I honestly think Odunze and Bowers are pretty close to equal as prospects without getting into positional value.  Nabers is above them imo (unless he's tiny).  He absolutely took over games this season, which is one of those intangible things on a prospect that gets me every time.  Tape where a guy does whatever he wants, and the other team throws everything that they can at him to stop it, and can't, is my catnip.  And that was Nabers vs. Missisippi State.  One of the best college performances by a WR I can ever remember seeing.

I would argue the opposite.  An elite receiving TE that is too big for corners to cover and too fast for most LB/S to cover, presents a mismatch that can't be overlooked.  When you look at the potential of finding a Kittle, Kelce, Gronk I think that mismatch gives the elite TE prospect the leg up on the elite WR prospect.  When combined with the fact that you could potentially draft an equally solid WR 30 picks later in BTJr, ADM, etc but you won't find another TE in this draft that's close to Bowers, that only furthers the impact IMO.

If you need a TE and a WR this year, would you rather:  Malik Nabers / JaTavion Sanders or Brock Bowers / Brian Thomas Jr (or Adonai Mitchell, Ladd McConkey, Troy Franklin, etc)

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, MaddHatter said:

I would argue the opposite.  An elite receiving TE that is too big for corners to cover and too fast for most LB/S to cover, presents a mismatch that can't be overlooked.  When you look at the potential of finding a Kittle, Kelce, Gronk I think that mismatch gives the elite TE prospect the leg up on the elite WR prospect.  When combined with the fact that you could potentially draft an equally solid WR 30 picks later in BTJr, ADM, etc but you won't find another TE in this draft that's close to Bowers, that only furthers the impact IMO.

If you need a TE and a WR this year, would you rather:  Malik Nabers / JaTavion Sanders or Brock Bowers / Brian Thomas Jr (or Adonai Mitchell, Ladd McConkey, Troy Franklin, etc)

The Titans could use both a TE and a WR this year, and I would much rather have Malik and a TE from the appropriate range than Bowers and like, Ladd McConkey.  Thomas and Mitchell aren't fair comparisons because you're not gonna be able to land them 30 picks later.

[nagahide13]

Quote

Big Boards should be built around best player, regardless of positional value or team needs.

Bowers.

[goldfishwars]

Maye 

[Daniel]

With four votes for Maye, and one for Daniels, no votes for Odunze is a little surprising.

[Soko]

7 hours ago, MaddHatter said:

If I have Nabers, Rome and Bowers equal, but it's a Deep WR class where #10 WR is still a solid day 1 starter but a weak TE Class where you may have 2 NFL starters in the entire draft, do you elevate Bowers above Nabers and Rome?  

Supposed to be regardless of positional value, no?

[Ozzy]

Rome Odunze will be a better pro than Malik Nabers, no doubt in my mind on that one.  I would be shocked if Nabers is better than Rome, that dude is legit!

[MaddHatter]

1 hour ago, Soko said:

Supposed to be regardless of positional value, no?

Positional value, yes. But if there’s only one elite X position in the draft, that value can’t be ignored if there are 10 elite at position Y.  So QB is the most important position, but a B level QB shouldn’t be ranked above an A level WR, if that makes sense

[Tugboat]

I think i have to go QB at this point.  It's so hard to completely distill positional value out of it when QBs are so disproportionally impactful.  I think that with Maye...this is the point at which the "risk" balances with the home run "upside".

 

If it's not him, i'd go with Odunze.  I think he's the next best "pass catching" prospect after MHJ, over Nabers and Bowers.  But i don't think that value quite balances out over a QB who has all the tools and shows consistent flashes of a super high ceiling...albeit, with some concerning risk factors as well.

[Daniel]

35 minutes ago, MaddHatter said:

Positional value, yes. But if there’s only one elite X position in the draft, that value can’t be ignored if there are 10 elite at position Y.  So QB is the most important position, but a B level QB shouldn’t be ranked above an A level WR, if that makes sense

This is just positional value with extra steps.

[Soko]

40 minutes ago, MaddHatter said:

Positional value, yes. But if there’s only one elite X position in the draft, that value can’t be ignored if there are 10 elite at position Y.  So QB is the most important position, but a B level QB shouldn’t be ranked above an A level WR, if that makes sense

Aren’t those two things you just said contradictory? If supply/demand at a certain position can’t be ignored, then it’s not ignoring positional value. 

My assumption was that big boards are supposed to be pure grades/evals as prospects. No positional value. No supply and demand. No needs. Just how they grade out. Now obviously if you’re in the war room, you take those other things into account, but us on FF making a big board, I thought it was only about the prospects. 

Maybe I’m wrong.