AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 10 minutes ago, Soko said: Could’ve just said he was more productive last year, lol. Consecutive is one after the other, you’re talking cumulative. Mahomes blew him out the water in 2022 and won MVP. This year he was down from a production standpoint, where guys like Purdy, Dak, Baker, Love, and Tua also had more/very comparable production. Using 23’ Mahomes to make the case for Goff isn’t really a strong one. I'm not making the case that he's better or on the same level as Mahomes, I'm just saying Goff for the past 2-3 years has easily been a top 7 QB and the fact he's going on 3 straight years of very good statistical output means he's earned the right to be viewed as a top QB. Certainly more than Tua, Herbert, Dak, etc. have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: the fact he's going on 3 straight years of very good statistical output means he's earned the right to be viewed as a top QB. Certainly more than Tua, Herbert, Dak, etc. have. Goff in 2021-2023 - 66.5 CMP%, 12,258 yards, 78 TDs (4.6), 27 INTs (1.6), 7.3 Y/A, 96.5 QB Rating Prescott in 2021-2023 - 68.4 CMP%, 11,825 yards, 96 TDs (6.1), 34 INTs (2.2), 7.5 Y/A, 101.6 QB Rating Herbert in 2021-2023 - 66.6 CMP%, 12,887 yards, 83 TDs (4.5), 32 INTs (1.8), 7.1 Y/A, 94.8 QB Rating Tua in 2021-2023 - 67.5 CMP%, 10,825 yards, 70 TDs (5.2), 32 INTs (2.4), 8.0 Y/A, 99.2 QB Rating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Just now, iknowcool said: Goff in 2021-2023 - 66.5 CMP%, 12,258 yards, 78 TDs (4.6), 27 INTs (1.6), 7.3 Y/A, 96.5 QB Rating Prescott in 2021-2023 - 68.4 CMP%, 11,825 yards, 96 TDs (6.1), 34 INTs (2.2), 7.5 Y/A, 101.6 QB Rating Herbert in 2021-2023 - 66.6 CMP%, 12,887 yards, 83 TDs (4.5), 32 INTs (1.8), 7.1 Y/A, 94.8 QB Rating Tua in 2021-2023 - 67.5 CMP%, 10,825 yards, 70 TDs (5.2), 32 INTs (2.4), 8.0 Y/A, 99.2 QB Rating Yeah going back and looking, I vastly overestimated Goff's first year in detroit 🙃 It's really been the last two years. Out of curiosity how does everyone compare just the last 2 seasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Yeah going back and looking, I vastly overestimated Goff's first year in detroit 🙃 It's really been the last two years. Out of curiosity how does everyone compare just the last 2 seasons? The problem is that there are a ton of QBs who have just missed a ton of time the last two years. There is something to be said for Goff's availability, of course, but if you're just comparing the bulk stats he's going to look great because of all the missed time. Purdy - Didn't start until midway through 22 (21 / 34 games) tua - missed 4 or 5 games in 22 I think? Rodgers - missed 2023 Kyler - Missed 15 games the last two years Lamar - missed 6 games the last two years Kirk - missed half of this year Stafford - missed half of last year, played 24 of 34 games the last two Burrow - missed nearly half of this year, played 26 / 34. Jordan Love didn't start until 2023 CJ Stroud - didn't start until 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tso Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 25 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Yeah going back and looking, I vastly overestimated Goff's first year in detroit 🙃 It's really been the last two years. Out of curiosity how does everyone compare just the last 2 seasons? If you're really cherry picking, Goff's 2nd half of 2021 was really good after we fired Anthony Lynn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 41 minutes ago, Forge said: The problem is that there are a ton of QBs who have just missed a ton of time the last two years. There is something to be said for Goff's availability, of course, but if you're just comparing the bulk stats he's going to look great because of all the missed time. Purdy - Didn't start until midway through 22 (21 / 34 games) tua - missed 4 or 5 games in 22 I think? Rodgers - missed 2023 Kyler - Missed 15 games the last two years Lamar - missed 6 games the last two years Kirk - missed half of this year Stafford - missed half of last year, played 24 of 34 games the last two Burrow - missed nearly half of this year, played 26 / 34. Jordan Love didn't start until 2023 CJ Stroud - didn't start until 2023 Some of those guys (Burrow and Lamar tbh) get the benefit of the doubt. The others we still don't know how good they are at the moment, maybe besides PUrdy but I think he's just his own exception IMO. Goff was like Jordan Love but then he continued to play ata higher level and has gotten better actually each year, so he's also shedding that entire stigma of his Rams career (or should be, IMO) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jameson_Neat Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Forge said: The problem is that there are a ton of QBs who have just missed a ton of time the last two years. There is something to be said for Goff's availability, of course, but if you're just comparing the bulk stats he's going to look great because of all the missed time. Purdy - Didn't start until midway through 22 (21 / 34 games) tua - missed 4 or 5 games in 22 I think? Rodgers - missed 2023 Kyler - Missed 15 games the last two years Lamar - missed 6 games the last two years Kirk - missed half of this year Stafford - missed half of last year, played 24 of 34 games the last two Burrow - missed nearly half of this year, played 26 / 34. Jordan Love didn't start until 2023 CJ Stroud - didn't start until 2023 To be fair, this applies to all QBs that stayed healthy in the last two seasons. Also, a few of those guys still matched or exceeded Goffs INT total despite the advantage of not playing those games. And I believe a better comparison is Carr v Stafford in their respective first decade in the league. Stafford had more memorable plays, but it's the lack of team success, postseason appearances and ultimately postseason success that really weighs them down. Edited March 28 by Jameson_Neat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 4 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Some of those guys (Burrow and Lamar tbh) get the benefit of the doubt. The others we still don't know how good they are at the moment, maybe besides PUrdy but I think he's just his own exception IMO. Goff was like Jordan Love but then he continued to play ata higher level and has gotten better actually each year, so he's also shedding that entire stigma of his Rams career (or should be, IMO) But that's thing....we don't know how good some are and a third of the league's potentially comparable QBs is missing a bunch of games from an already limited sample size. We don't give them the benefit of the doubt, but you also can't really assume that they would be worse either. It's just really difficult to have honest discourse about where Goff stands statistically when so many guys are missing substantial chunks of data. I'm certainly not going to strongly argue against someone taking Kyler, Kirk, Brock or even Tua over Goff, even if I wouldn't in some instances. You could use rate stats, but smaller samples would also make those prone to more volatility and inaccuracies (both good and bad). I think Goff is mostly similar to the guy he was with the Rams, to be honest. These last two years he hasn't really been any better statistically than he was 17-18 for the Rams. This was by far his best post season performance, however. 17-18 rams: 31 games, 63.6%, 8492 yards (274/g), 60 td (5.8%), 1.8% int rate, 8.2 yards per attempt, 7.7 any/a, 100.8 rating. 22-23 Lions: 34 games, 66.2%, 9013 yards (265/g), 59 td (4.9%), 1.6% int rate, 7.6 yards per attempt, 7.22 any/a, 98.6%. The way he is playing now has always been in his range of values and right now he's clocking the top end of that. In between those two year stretches he has 3 really, really mediocre years which was really kind of the bottom of his range where Derek Carr was much better than he was. Do I think he's turned a corner or something? No, not really. I think he's operating within his known parameters so far...we just kind of forgot about it because it had been 3 years. Statistically, he's been very good the last two years (well, at least in a dome). Is he a top 10 guy? He has an argument, but truthfully, so do a bunch of other guys, I think. Year in, year out those guys can really vacillate. Sometimes they are QB 8 in a given year or two, sometimes they may be QB 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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