detfan782004 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: I think it would be dumb but at the same time, Kirk Cousins has been a better QB the last three years. I think Herbert is somewhat overrated although some of that is poor coaching he has had. But he hasn't been good in the fourth quarter, he has only made it to one playoff game and lost that similar to Matt Stafford so if a team trying to reset things could move him and have a QB on a rookie deal again during the rebuild, it does sort of make sense. But I would still ask for a lot more than that if I am the Chargers. There are times Jim has come across as thinking he needs to be outside the box and it comes back to haunt him. I love Jim Harbaugh. The dude is hilarious to me. But sometimes I think he out thinks himself and I could see him doing it. However I fully believe hes pumping JJ up because it gets JJ paid more and helps a player slide to Jim But I do think JJ is a dang good QB and can play at NFL level. Edited April 25 by detfan782004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC421/ Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 7 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: Mathematically, sure there are 32 players drafted in the first round. But the point of having a first round grade IMO is a grade that stands out compared to the next tier. When there is an obvious drop off and then a large group of similarly ranked prospects, that is the next tier. So while every team grades different based on need, philosophy, coaching style etc, they will have a list of their top 1st round guys. If those guys are gone, they will feel like they should trade down even into the second since the level of talent there is comparable to where the talent level is at their current pick. If you were to pick a player at your pick that you don't have a first round grade on, you are essentially drafting a second round talent in the first round. So its not ignorant, its a method to determine your value on guys. I understand the premise it’s just maid up logic that doesn’t fit reality. I understand that is how most teams grade. It’s just illogical to reality. It’s the draft equivalent of saying you only have a playoff grade on 3/4 teams every year because you only consider 3/4 teams championship contenders. Well, more teams get into the playoffs than that. Having a single tear for “1st rd picks” instead of layers makes no sense. It’s not really something to argue about just an announce of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Just now, BigC421/ said: I understand the premise it’s just maid up logic that doesn’t fit reality. I understand that is how most teams grade. It’s just illogical to reality. It’s the draft equivalent of saying you only have a playoff grade on 3/4 teams every year because you only consider 3/4 teams championship contenders. Well, more teams get into the playoffs than that. Having a single tear for “1st rd picks” instead of layers makes no sense. It’s not really something to argue about just an announce of mine. i dont know what maid up logic is or tear for 1st round picks but I think there are more truth to some of these rumors than fans want to admit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 1 minute ago, BigC421/ said: I understand the premise it’s just maid up logic that doesn’t fit reality. I understand that is how most teams grade. It’s just illogical to reality. It’s the draft equivalent of saying you only have a playoff grade on 3/4 teams every year because you only consider 3/4 teams championship contenders. Well, more teams get into the playoffs than that. Having a single tear for “1st rd picks” instead of layers makes no sense. It’s not really something to argue about just an announce of mine. But its not made up. If you only see so many guys as first round talent, than when they are gone you trade out. Its not saying only 15 guys will be drafted there, its just that my philosophy would be to trade down if possible if my first round guys are gone. Its different than the playoff scenario because a team has the ability to trade picks. Sure other teams have guys as 1st rounders that I don't. Thats where the trade down happens. If we have to draft one of the non-first round graded guys, we are drafting a second round talent in the first. Similarly people say we got Brian Branch in the second but he was a first round talent. Well obviously other teams didn't have him there but he was on ours hence why we traded up to get him when we did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 JJ is going #3 imo so it wont matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC421/ Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 12 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: But its not made up. If you only see so many guys as first round talent, than when they are gone you trade out. Its not saying only 15 guys will be drafted there, its just that my philosophy would be to trade down if possible if my first round guys are gone. Its different than the playoff scenario because a team has the ability to trade picks. Sure other teams have guys as 1st rounders that I don't. Thats where the trade down happens. If we have to draft one of the non-first round graded guys, we are drafting a second round talent in the first. Similarly people say we got Brian Branch in the second but he was a first round talent. Well obviously other teams didn't have him there but he was on ours hence why we traded up to get him when we did. Trades take a partner and aren’t always available . 32 picks in the 1st rd is a known quantity. IF you were grading on a scale of 1-100 and said I’ve only got 15 players with grades 90 or above that would make sense. If you never have 32 players with 1st rd grades your grading on a curve that isn’t reflective of what the 1st rd actually is, your placing a value on 1st rd that really means high 1st rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 1 hour ago, BigC421/ said: Trades take a partner and aren’t always available . 32 picks in the 1st rd is a known quantity. IF you were grading on a scale of 1-100 and said I’ve only got 15 players with grades 90 or above that would make sense. If you never have 32 players with 1st rd grades your grading on a curve that isn’t reflective of what the 1st rd actually is, your placing a value on 1st rd that really means high 1st rd. As I said, I would try to trade back if all of the guys I had first round grades on. And given other teams grade differently, there usually is a partner. And yes, it's grading with a curve. That is a better example than the playoff teams. So yes, if we have to pick and can't trade down for even a loss in value, make a pick. But the talent level is second round talent. The guy we draft grades at the same level as the guy being picked in 15 picks. If there are only 15 guys you would be willing to spend your first round pick on and you're willing to lose a trade if they are gone, then those are the guys who have first round grades. To be honest mine is more Lions focused, as is Holmes' and is why he got 4 guys he had first round grades on last year. If available to us, I would take the following in order: 1. Caleb Williams 2. Marvin Harrison Jr. 3. Quinyon Mitchell 4. Malik Nabors 5. Brian Thomas Jr. 6. Joe Alt 7. Terrion Arnold 8. Rome Odunze 9. Kool-Aid Mckinstry 10. Taliese Fuaga 11. Liatu Latu 12. Jer'Zhan Newton 13. Byron Murphy 14. Jared Verse 15. Jackson Powers Johnson 16. Darius Robinson 17. Cooper Dejean 18. Zach Frazier 19. Ladd McKonkey 20. Tyler Nubin I wouldn't want anyone else in the first round. If the QBs fall to us I am trading to a team that wants a QB. If one of the other OL are there I am passing on them. Brock Bowers isn't a need but probably has 1st round talent so would consider him but just don't see the need with Laporta and Wright given Bowers is more of a big WR. I don't think any of the other WRs are worth a 1st, I don't think any of the other edge defenders are worth a first (meaning I think they are busts). I wouldn't draft a guy I think is going to bust in the first round. So if worst case scenario, I needed to move down to the early 2nd and gain a 4th, I'd probably do it if all of these guys are gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 My draft grades are just players overall. Obviously there are guys with first rd grades I might not like for the Lions. And there are players in the 2nd rd I like for the Lions better than some first round talent guys, which is why teams trade down. It’s called value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 I just can't wait for all the hate when JJ goes #3. All this lack of stars stuff in college is a crazy argument to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Brian Thomas Jr or Adonai Mitchell in the 1st Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 Just now, nagahide13 said: Brian Thomas Jr or Adonai Mitchell in the 1st I don’t know why but I’ve had a feeling of WR the last few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 6 minutes ago, nagahide13 said: Brian Thomas Jr or Adonai Mitchell in the 1st I think Brian Thomas might go ahead of Odunze. So if he is available at 29, jump on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Marvin Harrison to Detfan at 1.1......oh wrong draft spoiler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idoubtit Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 20 hours ago, Louis Friend said: Last year I had 14 guys with first round grades, this year I have 23 guys graded as first round talents. I think last year was deeper in rounds 2-3 from the next 15-75 guys whereas this year it’s more saturated from 24-60 and then falls off. Yes but the real question is not so much about how players are graded as it is what is the reality. Every year we see a lot of players drafted on days two and three who SHOULD have been graded round 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted April 26 Author Share Posted April 26 5 minutes ago, idoubtit said: Yes but the real question is not so much about how players are graded as it is what is the reality. Every year we see a lot of players drafted on days two and three who SHOULD have been graded round 1. And that’s how “steals of the draft” happen. To think the 32 guys drafted round one are the “first round talents” you cannot have steals and reaches because there would be no value attached to guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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