2023 stats that surprise you

[FrantikRam]

On 5/4/2024 at 11:54 PM, Thomas5737 said:

Brock also had 10 games with a rating over 100 and 12 over 90, but yeah lets focus on one of his two bad games to prove he is unworthy.

And by far the most TDs. He had a flawed season. Through the first 10 games of the season Lamar had 15 total TD and 12 turnovers. 60% of his season was garbage, he just had the #1 defense to rely on giving up 3, 3, 6, 9, 16, 17... points in that span.

 

Nothing like hypothetical facts to prove your point. Purdy is a good passer, if it didn't matter if he was we'd be talking about how Trey Lance should be the MVP.

 

Well I thought and still think that Lamar deserved MVP, so I'll just ask it this way:

The Ravens scored 483 points. The Niners 491, and the Bills 451. The Ravens had two non offensive TDs while the Niners had one, but still offensive scoring was very close.

The Ravens played what had to be one of the toughest schedules as well. But putting that aside for a minute:

Given that the Ravens and Niners scored almost the same number of points on offense, and more than the Bills - who do you attribute that success to for Baltimore on offense?

Because if the argument is that Purdy and Allen threw/scored more TDs, if we are saying that Gus Edwards getting a bunch of short yardage TDs is the reason Lamar shouldn't have won MVP I have a problem with that and thankfully the voters apparently did too.

 

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, FrantikRam said:

 

Well I thought and still think that Lamar deserved MVP, so I'll just ask it this way:

The Ravens scored 483 points. The Niners 491, and the Bills 451. The Ravens had two non offensive TDs while the Niners had one, but still offensive scoring was very close.

The Ravens played what had to be one of the toughest schedules as well. But putting that aside for a minute:

Given that the Ravens and Niners scored almost the same number of points on offense, and more than the Bills - who do you attribute that success to for Baltimore on offense?

Because if the argument is that Purdy and Allen threw/scored more TDs, if we are saying that Gus Edwards getting a bunch of short yardage TDs is the reason Lamar shouldn't have won MVP I have a problem with that and thankfully the voters apparently did too.

 

49ers had more rushing TDs than the Ravens.

They had 500 more total yards on 50 less plays.

So the Ravens kicked 7 more FG, 49ers scored 7 more TD. Along with defensive the scores, that's why it's close.

 

 

[FrantikRam]

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

49ers had more rushing TDs than the Ravens.

They had 500 more total yards on 50 less plays.

So the Ravens kicked 7 more FG, 49ers scored 7 more TD. Along with defensive the scores, that's why it's close.

 

 

 

The Ravens offense was still close to as lethal as the Niners. 

And then we can get into the embarrassingly stark difference between the offensive talent around those QBs to go with the fact that Baltimore played....four games against teams with a losing record all season, while the Niners played seven.

The better QB led an offense to similar success (a difference of 14 points across a 17 game season) with worse players at RB/WR/TE (especially considering that Andrews went down) against a more difficult schedule.

Very obvious that he was the league MVP.

[Xmad]

12 hours ago, Forge said:

The hyperbole that people use to describe Brock Purdy on both sides is insane. 

One of the few guys in the league who is consistently overrated and underrated. 

Dak was probably the best QB in the NFC last year, but there was not much of a case for Goff over Purdy. And Purdy as a whole has been much closer to Jared Goff than Gardner Minshew in his career though the sample with Purdy is still somewhat limited. Maybe that is a semantics issue, but kind of crazy to compare him to Minshew who has some of the worst pocket awareness and understanding in the league. 

Gardner Minshew is severely underrated tbh. Truly an Andy Dalton level talent. 

[Xmad]

10 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Not even close. It was much closer to his 2020 season.

 

Statistically Purdy was the best, by a good margin. Allen was the best offensive weapon. Lamar had a 5 TD game in his last game, otherwise he was 24 TD 14 Turnovers.

That happens to all QBs

Purdy has more passing TDs than Lamar over the last two seasons. Only 200 less yards in almost 200 fewer pass attempts.

Brady had his first 100 passer rating and first 30 TD season in year 7. Purdy did it in year 1 of starting.

I'm not saying Purdy is the best QB, that's Mahomes. Purdy had the best statistical season. McCaffrey had the best season of any offensive player. RBs are disqualified because reasons.

Statistically, if you watch the tape he had his best season.

Purdy was not the best watch the tape and tell me how many throws he leaves on the field and lucks into because of his playmakers.

Yet one has an MVP and is widely recognized by many in the league as a top 5 QB while the other is seen as the beneficiary of an all-pro offensive supporting cast and coaching.

Different Eras, he's much more andy dalton than a legitimate all world talent.

Something we can agree on, it's most valuable and RB isn't the most valuable sadly.

[Xmad]

Wild 2023 stats: 

Joe Flacco threw more TDs than Tom Brady.

[Soko]

19 hours ago, Xmad said:

........My brother in christ. Lamar just had the best passing season of his career.

How is giving 49/50 MVP votes to the best QB in the league last year a joke?

The first steelers game was literally the WRs dropping like 6-7 passes, I forgot who but someone dropped a TD. Purdy's a good QB but my guy is literally just Gardner Minshew with a competent as **** offense and coaching. He is a *good* QB. Even then one good season does not make him better than literally half of the other MVP candidates. He wasn't even the best QB in the NFC, that was Dak, maybe Goff. 

I mean, I think we can say 2023 Lamar had the best passing ability of any previous iterations…but statistically, 2019 was better in almost every category except YPG. 

I’m not going to retroactively take away Lamar’s MVP, but as pure passers, Purdy definitely has an argument over Lamar. 

SF being loaded probably keeps Purdy from being talked about as an elite QB, which you could debate is fair, but when people talk about it like the cast is what stops him from being Gardner Minshew? Hard to take those opinions seriously.

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, FrantikRam said:

The better QB led an offense to similar success (a difference of 14 points across a 17 game season) with worse players at RB/WR/TE (especially considering that Andrews went down) against a more difficult schedule.

Likely was statistically better than Andrew per target.

Are we saying Likely is bad, Flowers isn't good, Agholor was complete garbage...OBJ/Bateman/Gus/Justice Hill and Keaton Mitchell did nothing?

I don't understand why one QB gets credit for his teammate's success and another loses credit because of his teammate's success.

[FrantikRam]

8 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Likely was statistically better than Andrew per target.

Are we saying Likely is bad, Flowers isn't good, Agholor was complete garbage...OBJ/Bateman/Gus/Justice Hill and Keaton Mitchell did nothing?

I don't understand why one QB gets credit for his teammate's success and another loses credit because of his teammate's success.

 

That is an extreme swing there.

I didn't say they were garbage. But I also don't think its breaking news that:

CMC is better than Edwards/Hill/Mitchell

Kittle is better than Likely

Aiyuk is better than Flowers

Samuel is better than OBJ

[Thomas5737]

33 minutes ago, FrantikRam said:

 

That is an extreme swing there.

I didn't say they were garbage. But I also don't think its breaking news that:

CMC is better than Edwards/Hill/Mitchell

Kittle is better than Likely

Aiyuk is better than Flowers

Samuel is better than OBJ

CMC 2000 yards 21 TD - Edwards/Hill/Mitchell 2100 yards 19 TD

Kittle 1000 yards and 6 TD - Likely/Andrews 950 yards 11 TD

Pretty close to the same production at RB and TE yet Purdy gets punished for it? I always thought Edwards was underrated and honestly I don't think the TE position is a big difference. But yeah, CMC is better than Edwards and I'd call the TE a wash.

Aiyuk/Flowers is TBD but both had similar targets and catches Aiyuk had a lot more yards.

Samuel is a lot better than OBJ, can't argue that.

Should that talent difference take a QB who was clearly statistically better last year and make him not a part of the conversation? I don't think so, but most do. That's why I add him to the conversation. At least Dak gets mentions. Allen gets debated. Mahomes had an off year but do we think the Chiefs are the champs if Lamar started for therm all year? If the hypothetical "Lamar would have been the best with the 49ers is allowed then so should Mahomes with the 49ers. Chiefs had a bigger talent disparity between them and the Ravens than the Ravens to the 49ers. At least It seems like it to me.

[Danger]

The numbers between Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins over the last 6 years are scarily similar, even and including their down years.

[FrantikRam]

6 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

CMC 2000 yards 21 TD - Edwards/Hill/Mitchell 2100 yards 19 TD

Kittle 1000 yards and 6 TD - Likely/Andrews 950 yards 11 TD

Pretty close to the same production at RB and TE yet Purdy gets punished for it? I always thought Edwards was underrated and honestly I don't think the TE position is a big difference. But yeah, CMC is better than Edwards and I'd call the TE a wash.

Aiyuk/Flowers is TBD but both had similar targets and catches Aiyuk had a lot more yards.

Samuel is a lot better than OBJ, can't argue that.

Should that talent difference take a QB who was clearly statistically better last year and make him not a part of the conversation? I don't think so, but most do. That's why I add him to the conversation. At least Dak gets mentions. Allen gets debated. Mahomes had an off year but do we think the Chiefs are the champs if Lamar started for therm all year? If the hypothetical "Lamar would have been the best with the 49ers is allowed then so should Mahomes with the 49ers. Chiefs had a bigger talent disparity between them and the Ravens than the Ravens to the 49ers. At least It seems like it to me.

 

 

He was always part of the discussion, I at least never said he wasn't. In fact to me the conversation was really just between those two, with Allen getting HM.

But we weren't talking about stats - my claim was that those players were better (CMC/Kittle/Aiyuk/Samuel) - I don't think anybody can argue that.

Not saying Lamar's skill players aren't still good - but to me, it is more impressive that the Ravens offense was close to the Niners statistically despite having worse skill players at most positions, and to me that speaks highly of Lamar and shows he was more valuable IMO.

 

Its not a black and white thing - its all subjective (MVP always is, in every sport) - there's a world where Purdy wins MVP. But for me, I always felt like it was Lamar and I think he was the most valuable player last season.

[Thomas5737]

2 minutes ago, FrantikRam said:

 

 

He was always part of the discussion, I at least never said he wasn't. In fact to me the conversation was really just between those two, with Allen getting HM.

But we weren't talking about stats - my claim was that those players were better (CMC/Kittle/Aiyuk/Samuel) - I don't think anybody can argue that.

Not saying Lamar's skill players aren't still good - but to me, it is more impressive that the Ravens offense was close to the Niners statistically despite having worse skill players at most positions, and to me that speaks highly of Lamar and shows he was more valuable IMO.

 

Its not a black and white thing - its all subjective (MVP always is, in every sport) - there's a world where Purdy wins MVP. But for me, I always felt like it was Lamar and I think he was the most valuable player last season.

Well there was a thread here about which QB had the best season and Purdy was never mentioned until I brought him up. 

Again, If Lamar had 14 votes, McCaffrey had 11, Allen had 9, Purdy had 7, Dak had 6 and Stroud had 3 then I'd get it. It was a split vote in a year that there wasn't a clear best QB on a playoff team. To get 49 out of 50 votes makes no sense. The 1st half of the season the Ravens offense struggled in the 2nd half of games. Lost games because of it to Minshew, Watson and Pickett. It wasn't until the last game Lamar played that he got his TD to TO ratio to 2-1. He had to get 4 TD and no TO, he did 5 and 0 and that's all she wrote. The buzz started about him being the top candidate (he hadn't been all year) and the voters just must have said whatever. 

Just crazy to me. 

[thebestever6]

Russell Wilson stats I mean u got friends that box score scout and say he had just as good of a season as Josh Allen, or Trevor Lawrence and Denvers oline sucks.

[wackywabbit]

4 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Well there was a thread here about which QB had the best season and Purdy was never mentioned until I brought him up. 

Again, If Lamar had 14 votes, McCaffrey had 11, Allen had 9, Purdy had 7, Dak had 6 and Stroud had 3 then I'd get it. It was a split vote in a year that there wasn't a clear best QB on a playoff team. To get 49 out of 50 votes makes no sense. The 1st half of the season the Ravens offense struggled in the 2nd half of games. Lost games because of it to Minshew, Watson and Pickett. It wasn't until the last game Lamar played that he got his TD to TO ratio to 2-1. He had to get 4 TD and no TO, he did 5 and 0 and that's all she wrote. The buzz started about him being the top candidate (he hadn't been all year) and the voters just must have said whatever. 

Just crazy to me. 

It was 49 out of 50 because there was a clear answer to most.