Didn't make playoffs in 2023, will make them in 2024

[Nobellythrower]

Arizona and the Colts

[Spartacus]

1 hour ago, StatKing said:

I think an argument can be made the Bears got substantially better while the Packers got marginally better. We only won two more games last year, it's not like they went 4-13.

I mean I get it but frankly what did the Bears do to overtake Green Bay? Green Bay lost no one outside of Aaron Jones who they replaced with Josh Jacobs which is a lateral move but they didn't really lose talent there. They added a pro bowl level safety and 3 draft picks to by far the biggest weakness as a position as well as adding two draft picks to probably there 2nd biggest weakness at LB. Its not like they are an old team like in years past either. They were the youngest offense by far in the NFL last year and one of the youngest defenses. I just don't see how anyone can put this unproven Bears team in front of a most likely ascending Packers team. This isn't Aaron Rodgers Packers full of veterans that could decline any year. 

[StatKing]

2 hours ago, Spartacus said:

I mean I get it but frankly what did the Bears do to overtake Green Bay? Green Bay lost no one outside of Aaron Jones who they replaced with Josh Jacobs which is a lateral move but they didn't really lose talent there. They added a pro bowl level safety and 3 draft picks to by far the biggest weakness as a position as well as adding two draft picks to probably there 2nd biggest weakness at LB. Its not like they are an old team like in years past either. They were the youngest offense by far in the NFL last year and one of the youngest defenses. I just don't see how anyone can put this unproven Bears team in front of a most likely ascending Packers team. This isn't Aaron Rodgers Packers full of veterans that could decline any year. 

I think it really depends on how you view Caleb Williams. Going from one of the biggest QB busts in the last decade to even an average QB is worth atleast two wins in my opinion. Team progression isn't always linear either. Yes, the Packers looked promising at the end of last season but who's to say that wasn't fools gold in an extremely weak NFC?

Edited May 13 by StatKing

[StatKing]

3 hours ago, Danger said:

There's a saying about off seasons, if you're not getting better, you're going backwards because the rest of the teams in the league are making moves to improve. Dallas is definitely a good look at this sort of outlook this year. They didn't lose a too much, but they did nothing to get better at all.

Every fanbase thinks they got better during the off season. I'm very optimistic about the Packers this year but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they don't make the playoffs. There's no guarantee our young guys from last year progress.

[renndawg37]

The Giants are an option, but the Titans aren't? 

[Dr LBC]

On 5/10/2024 at 12:25 AM, Hunter2_1 said:

On 5/9/2024 at 8:27 AM, Jakuvious said:

Nope.

They'll be less stupid of a team with Harbaugh in charge now. But I don't think that rebuild is close to complete, though. They need another year to build back up. 2025 is more likely. I should be used to people talking themselves into the Chargers every offseason, but it is a little weird to me that their offseason was basically dumping all of their skill position guys, and then the draft, and people are sold already. There were some moves in there they had to make, but it doesn't exactly scream one year turnaround, to me. Hell, they were worse than Denver and Las Vegas last year. Got analytics nerds getting excited that they're talking about going ground and pound with Gus Edwards. I don't really get it. Still feels like Justin Herbert in a very incomplete team, to me.

Yeah mostly agreed. Very incomplete. I would think the defense is going to improve a bit though under a tighter ship, even though coordinator inexperienced as a DC at this level 

Also, it's a matter of how the schemes are going to change and how effective that will be versus Kansas City's model.  By and large, Mahomes has managed to be fairly impervious to the "just keep it out of his hands" approach that teams of a similar build to what Harbaugh and Roman are expected to implement with the Chargers - Baltimore only managed a 1-point win at home to start the 2021 season and that was on the back of the Chiefs defense giving up 12 unanswered points in the 4th quarter to blow a double-digit lead.  And LA's got a ways to go - not to mention needs to actually stay healthy - to get to Baltimore defense levels.

We may see the Chargers make a record improvement on the back of Harbaugh managing to keep them from making the dumbass game-losing mistakes they made under Staley and that getting them wins against teams they should beat and even some deadheat matchups, but KC's still going to be a juggernaut in the AFC if Mahomes is healthy and I doubt we see the seasonal-split of the inter-division matchups between them and the Chargers that we saw in the Staley years; probably close games, but edging in KC's favor by a score-plus more times than not for the first 2 seasons of Harbaugh at least.

Edited May 14 by Dr LBC

[Dr A W Niloc]

12 hours ago, Spartacus said:

What did the Packers do to get ousted by the Bears? 

Good question.  Enthusiasm for the Packers dimmed significantly after their tread-water draft.  Best Player Available makes sense for extremely good and bad teams but Green Bay is neither.  A more Draft 4 Need approach (which is always preferred for late round lottery tickets, at least) might have kept the NFC-North closer:

Pik Rk-PFFR DraftBz 40Yd  Green Bay         College   Team Pstn Dif  Tall Lbs

30. 16-81.6  3 88.8 4.55  Nate Wiggins      Clemson   G.B.  CB3  +4  6'2" 185
45.  1-90.8  2-86.3 4.51  Edgerrin Cooper   Texas A&M G.B.  LB1  +2  6'3" 230
58*  2-83.9  4-84.7 5.33  Cooper Beebe      Kansas St G.B.  OG1 +23  6'4" 335
88.  4-84.0  8 83.8 4.50  Tykee Smith       Georgia   G.B.  FS5 -57  5'10 205
91.  4-75.5  2-86.0 4.56  Ja'Tavion Sanders Texas     G.B.  TE4  +6  6'4" 243
111  1-87.6 31-81.3 5.08  Mason McCormack   S Dakota  G.B.  OG5 ---  6'5" 316
163  2-88.3 18-80.1 4.50  Kitan Oladapo     OregonSt  G.B. SS15 -21  6'1" 217
170  2-91.1 18-84.1 4.47  Malik Washington  Virginia  G.B. WR26 +77  5'8" 194
202  2-91.3 25 75.6 4.49  DwightMcGlothern  Arkansas  G.B. CB10 +51  6'2" 188
255  3-91.2 15 79.0 4.60  Sebastian Castro  Iowa      G.B. CB17 -12  5'11 205

The team schedule takes a nasty turn, from 7th softest to 4th toughest.  On the plus side, Edgerrin Cooper may make the transition to the new defense smoother.  On the down side, the offensive line continues its downward drift.

[Hunter2_1]

11 hours ago, renndawg37 said:

The Giants are an option, but the Titans aren't? 

😂 

You’re the AFC’s stl4life

[Spartacus]

10 hours ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

Good question.  Enthusiasm for the Packers dimmed significantly after their tread-water draft.  Best Player Available makes sense for extremely good and bad teams but Green Bay is neither.  A more Draft 4 Need approach (which is always preferred for late round lottery tickets, at least) might have kept the NFC-North closer:

That just makes me question what you actually thought the Packers needs were? Outside of a possible need at CB (They have a true #1 in Jaire Alexander and won against both the Chiefs & Lions with Ballentine, Valentine, & Nixon all starting without issue). They are also returning Eric Stokes who was promising as a rookie but unfortunately tore an ACL and has had trouble staying healthy.  What position of need didn't they address? Their 3 biggest needs were depth on the OL, LB, Safety, and I'd argue DC.

Their starting 5 I would have no issue walking into next year with Walker, Jenkins, Meyers, Rhyan, and Tom. Both Tom & Jenkins are pro bowl level players, Walker is league average, Meyers & Rhyan are upgradeable but not pressingly so. All started the majority of the games last year with no real issues. The depth is really what took a hit with JRJ and Nijman leaving. Bahk hadn't played in almost 2 seasons so he was no real loss at this point. They added depth at the OL with 3 draft picks including their 1st round pick shoring up that issue and giving the possibility at upgrading at T, C, or G. 

Linebacker they have one guaranteed starter in Walker who has shown plenty of promise and McDuffie who has been pretty good in spot duty but probably not someone you want starting every game. They added the best LB in the draft in Cooper  and then followed it up with additional depth and a similar player physically in Hopper. 

There biggest need was by far safety. They lost both Savage & Owens but they were both mediocre to begin with. They added the best safety available in FA and then drafted 3 additional safeties to compete for the other position including one of the best safety prospects in the draft. 

 

[FrantikRam]

I don't feel like saying this over and over and over again for the second straight year after Vegas was laughably wrong last year and will be laughably wrong this year, along with most people here (I see some having us as a team who will miss the playoffs this year)....so I'll try to be succinct.

I was right last year and barring some catastrophic injury situation, the Rams are making the playoffs and will be one of the better teams in the NFC

[Dr A W Niloc]

3 hours ago, Spartacus said:

That just makes me question what you actually thought the Packers needs were?

     In this context a need is a position where the team does not have a starter quality player:  a top 32 QB, RB1, TE, or OC;  a top 64 OT, OG, or Safety;  a top 96 WR or CB; or a top 80 (this number is arbitrary) front seven defender (Edger, DT, NT, or LB).  A want is a player dangerously close to that cutoff line.  Mock draft consensus doesn't help here.  One has to look at the actual roster.

     As the search for Jaire Alexander's partner continues CB2 was the primary need.

     MLB became a need because of the transition on defence.  Cooper was an excellent choice.  The OLBs remain areas of want.

     Their only other need could be at RG, even if Sean Rhyan is healthy.  Enter RT Jordan Morgan, who cannot be considered a replacement for Zach Tom--by far the best O-Lineman on the team.  Morgan becomes the RG, a position that could be filled directly with Cooper Beebe at #58.

Quote

[Their] biggest need was by far safety.

     Xavier McKinney is downright excellent at FS but I took Tykee Smith as a luxury pick, knowing that Tight End and Strong Safety (virtually the only defensive position in abundant supply this year) would be easy positions to fill later.

     Sanders, McCormack, and Oladapo were good players at positions of desire.

     Of course, Malik Washington, Dwight McGlothern, and Sebasian Castro were lottery tickets at positions of need or want.  How Castro escaped being drafted is a mystery.

     A final note:  Other than CB2, the Packers didn't have any gaping holes.  Their issue was a lack of above average starters.  That can be much harder to fix.

 Needs:  [OG]  [CB2]               | Wants:  OLBs  TE   DT  [WR1]  {SS}

[scar988]

On 5/13/2024 at 9:44 AM, Spartacus said:

What did the Packers do to get ousted by the Bears? 

They’ll still be competitive 

[StatKing]

7 hours ago, Spartacus said:

That just makes me question what you actually thought the Packers needs were? Outside of a possible need at CB (They have a true #1 in Jaire Alexander and won against both the Chiefs & Lions with Ballentine, Valentine, & Nixon all starting without issue). They are also returning Eric Stokes who was promising as a rookie but unfortunately tore an ACL and has had trouble staying healthy.  What position of need didn't they address? Their 3 biggest needs were depth on the OL, LB, Safety, and I'd argue DC.

Their starting 5 I would have no issue walking into next year with Walker, Jenkins, Meyers, Rhyan, and Tom. Both Tom & Jenkins are pro bowl level players, Walker is league average, Meyers & Rhyan are upgradeable but not pressingly so. All started the majority of the games last year with no real issues. The depth is really what took a hit with JRJ and Nijman leaving. Bahk hadn't played in almost 2 seasons so he was no real loss at this point. They added depth at the OL with 3 draft picks including their 1st round pick shoring up that issue and giving the possibility at upgrading at T, C, or G. 

Linebacker they have one guaranteed starter in Walker who has shown plenty of promise and McDuffie who has been pretty good in spot duty but probably not someone you want starting every game. They added the best LB in the draft in Cooper  and then followed it up with additional depth and a similar player physically in Hopper. 

There biggest need was by far safety. They lost both Savage & Owens but they were both mediocre to begin with. They added the best safety available in FA and then drafted 3 additional safeties to compete for the other position including one of the best safety prospects in the draft. 

 

The entire defense is a question mark if you ask me. We've spent a lot of draft capital on guys who havent produced up to their draft status. What proven player do we have at DT besides Kenny Clark? Rashan Gary is paid like a top 10 pass rusher but has never been one and Quay Walker has been average at best. Potential can only take you so far.