Detroit signs Jared Goff to 4 year extension worth $212 million/$170 M guaranteed

[Soggust]

8 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

I agree. 

There are two or three qbs that carry their team. 

Mahomes, Josh Allen and maybe Lamar. 

 

Everyone else has significant needs be it a line a defense or recieving core. 

I broadly agree with you, but I think that one could make the case that given their lack of championships, that Allen and Lamar haven't exactly proven themselves to be able to carry a team to the promised land either.

I think the narrative that "you need an elite QB who can carry the team" is the real overblown one, tbh.

[StatKing]

8 hours ago, nagahide13 said:

ARSB is also 24 now so I'm not sure why we only care about age when it comes to Packers players but when it comes to the Lions they're just all-pros and not young. I'm assuming he's calling Sam Laporta the top 3 TE but doesn't know that he was drafted in 2023 and was a rookie last year... Again ignoring his age and just calling him great.

It doesn't fit their narrative about the Packers being an ascending team and what the Lions are doing completely breaks their brain when it comes to team building that's why.

[Jameson_Neat]

10 hours ago, nagahide13 said:

ARSB is also 24 now so I'm not sure why we only care about age when it comes to Packers players but when it comes to the Lions they're just all-pros and not young. I'm assuming he's calling Sam Laporta the top 3 TE but doesn't know that he was drafted in 2023 and was a rookie last year... Again ignoring his age and just calling him great.

To be fair, not one of those bullet points had any merit. 

 

[lavar703]

10 hours ago, 43M said:

Just because "it happens" doesn't mean its smart.   Its not, and there are far more examples to support paying "lesser" QBs too much money being bad long term decisions (like the example you gave) than the opposite.

You can win a Super Bowl with a Joe Flacco-type QB. Jimmy Garappolo was a stupid game plan in the second half away from winning a Super Bowl. I'm not exactly sure if its smart or not however we chose not to pay Kirk and have shuffled through like 20 QBs since. We finished top 5 in DVOA for defense like two years ago and couldn't get to the playoffs because we were starting Taylor Heinicke. You have to at least have someone competent to develop your roster. Unfortunately paying those competent starters is a part of the game. 

[Forge]

19 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

You can win a Super Bowl with a Joe Flacco-type QB. Jimmy Garappolo was a stupid game plan in the second half away from winning a Super Bowl. I'm not exactly sure if its smart or not however we chose not to pay Kirk and have shuffled through like 20 QBs since. We finished top 5 in DVOA for defense like two years ago and couldn't get to the playoffs because we were starting Taylor Heinicke. You have to at least have someone competent to develop your roster. Unfortunately paying those competent starters is a part of the game. 

Jimmy g was being a competent 4th quarter playoff QB away from a super bowl win. Worst 4th quarter playoff QB there's ever been. Amazing how consistently bad he was in the playoffs in the 4th quarter.

I don't disagree with your argument as a  whole, but flacco is a bad example. Flacco won on his rookie deal and counted for less than 4 percent of the cap that year. Once he got paid, he never got close again. Eli winning is probably a better example, or that QB mess in Denver a decade ago. 

Super bowls are littered with guys like Jimmy losing the super bowl, fewer of them actually winning it. Mostly, once those guys get paid, it's really just hard to win with them consistently. You have to crush some drafts. The margins are definitely thinner, so you need some luck or to hit on some smaller rate throws (Jimmy completing that pass to Sanders, for example). 

The lions are in a real good spot because they smashed recent rookie classes. So that leaves them in a good spot to pay goff while key contributors have smaller cap hits.  If they had bricked those recent draft classes, I think they may have just let Goff go. 

 

[lavar703]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

Jimmy g was being a competent 4th quarter playoff QB away from a super bowl win. Worst 4th quarter playoff QB there's ever been. Amazing how consistently bad he was in the playoffs in the 4th quarter.

I don't disagree with your argument as a  whole, but flacco is a bad example. Flacco won on his rookie deal and counted for less than 4 percent of the cap that year. Once he got paid, he never got close again. Eli winning is probably a better example, or that QB mess in Denver a decade ago. 

Super bowls are littered with guys like Jimmy losing the super bowl, fewer of them actually winning it. Mostly, once those guys get paid, it's really just hard to win with them consistently. You have to crush some drafts. The margins are definitely thinner, so you need some luck or to hit on some smaller rate throws (Jimmy completing that pass to Sanders, for example). 

The lions are in a real good spot because they smashed recent rookie classes. So that leaves them in a good spot to pay goff while key contributors have smaller cap hits.  If they had bricked those recent draft classes, I think they may have just let Goff go. 

 

The difference for me is I don't see Goff as that kind of QB. I think he's better than those guys. I think he's solidly in the top 10 at this point. 

[Flounch]

15 hours ago, lavar703 said:

It’s not dumb logic. It’s how contracts work. He’s going to be surpassed by a bunch of QBs in the next few years. It’s no different than when Flacco signed his $20M deal and nobody could believe a player was making that much money. The cap will go up and so will salaries. 

It's how contract work ? IS there a rule written in the law that said the next QB to sign a contract has to be higher than the actual highest paid QB in the league ? 

Just waiting for a brave GM who will say to his QB, i won't give you the highest contract for a QB because you are not Mahomes. 

[Mdpackfan22]

13 hours ago, Jameson_Neat said:

Which TE is the top 3 one? 

TJ Hockenson....

 

(Yes im aware he was traded halfway thru the year)

[Mdpackfan22]

11 hours ago, nagahide13 said:

ARSB is also 24 now so I'm not sure why we only care about age when it comes to Packers players but when it comes to the Lions they're just all-pros and not young. I'm assuming he's calling Sam Laporta the top 3 TE but doesn't know that he was drafted in 2023 and was a rookie last year... Again ignoring his age and just calling him great.

Must have forgotten when the Lions had TJ Hockenson..

 

Also good job ignoring the OL and running game point to try and fit a narrative. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 21 by Mdpackfan22

[Forge]

8 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

The difference for me is I don't see Goff as that kind of QB. I think he's better than those guys. I think he's solidly in the top 10 at this point. 

That's fine, but that's kind of what these guys do. 3 years ago, Goff would have been just inside the top 20 for most and guys like Tannehill and Carr would have been top 10ish guys. Goff may have been behind Jimmy for people. Kirk often oscillates like this as well and I'd have him right around the top 10 almost year in and year out. Now,  ultimately it doesn't matter because I don't think the surrounding cast is going anywhere and I think he's going to continue to play well. My biggest concern would be if Ben Johnson leaves after this year. 

Goff is better than the likes of Joe Flacco over his career, but he's still in that QB range that annoys you to death and I wouldn't have him outside of the Kirk range, tbh.   No shame in that either. I think it's a good QB. Winning is hard and great QBs have an advantage in the playoffs. 
 

Historically, Goff's playoff performances really show him off as that type of QB as well. This was the first year where he had a good playoff run, tbh. He continued to have true struggles against pressure though (averaged like .3 yards per attempt under pressure in the playoffs of something bizarre like that according to steven ruiz). 

 

He may be hitting his peak right now though, tbh. For a pure pocket passer, that's not the craziest thing. 

[Mdpackfan22]

3 hours ago, StatKing said:

It doesn't fit their narrative about the Packers being an ascending team and what the Lions are doing completely breaks their brain when it comes to team building that's why.

In what universe am I not giving credit to the Lions team building strategy..?

[Jameson_Neat]

17 minutes ago, Mdpackfan22 said:

Must have forgotten when the Lions had TJ Hockenson..

 

Also good job ignoring the OL and running game point to try and fit a narrative. 

 

 

 

 

The Lions finished 11th in total rushing yards and 15th in YPC in 2022. The Packers finished 15th in total rushing yards and 9th in YPC in 2023. Those numbers don't suggest one team being a top tier unit and the other a bottom tier unit.

Hockenson played in 7 games and no one had him as a top 5 TE in 2022, let alone top 3. 

 

 

 

[Sllim Pickens]

I don't get all of the people clamoring over Goff's weapons and OL. 

Yes the OL played well this year but other than Sewell and Ragnow (who was hurt a few games this year) nobody had any of our other OL at the top of OG or OT rankings.  Glasgow was a cheap free agent add, Jonah Jackson was hurt all of the time and really wasn't great in pass protection and Decker struggled too but had a great year.  You can say he has a great OL coach and gets the most out of guys but the line has struggled to stay healthy and still isn't full of big names. 

The WR core Goff has had since he got to Detroit has been laughable.  He has since taken a rookie WR in ARSB and helped turn him into a star and a rookie TE to break rookie TE records.  Other than that he has had Josh Reynolds as his #2 who was a mid season free agent ick up because nobody wanted him and Kalif Raymond.  Nobody is clamoring for that WR core.  Jamo has talent but is unproven, been hurt and suspended.  If you rank the top WR duo's or trios in the league, the Lions are not in the top 20 even with ARSB being a top 5 WR now.  

People say Lamar and Josh Allen are the guys who deserve these deals but Lamar hasn't made it to the Super Bowl and his playoff performances have been rough. He has had a ton of highly drafted WRs and Odell and Mark Andrews. Josh Allen has been to one AFC championship game and lost with Stefon Diggs and Davis and a good OL. Justin Herbert has had one of the elite WR duos in the league and Austin Ekeler and Herbert has played in one playoff game. Dak has had elite WR groups and RBs his whole career. Everyone has weapons, but getting them the ball in ways to excel is a big part of it and Goff is great at that. 

The Lions are a super young team and Goff has been the locker room leader who has been there to help them develop.  Our best players are all 25 or under aside from Goff and Ragnow. Goff has quickly turned around a team completely devoid of talent and led them to the NFC championship game and if Josh Reynolds caught one of two balls that hit his hands, the Lions would have been in the Super Bowl.  Which would have been the second Super Bowl in Goff's career. 

[LeotheLion]

19 hours ago, Mdpackfan22 said:

Stroud produced far better than Love? 

 

-Love had 36 TDs compared to 26 for Stroud 

-Love had a higher completion %

-Love had a higher QBR

 

In what world did Stroud far outproduce Love?

 

I didn't know you used stats, I thought it was just eye test?

Yards per attempt: Stroud 8.2, Love 7.2

Yards per game: Stroud 273.9, Love 244.6

TD/Int ratio: Stroud 4.6, Love 2.9

QB Rating: Stroud 100.8, Love 96.1

ANY/A: Stroud 7.47, Love 6.67

So it looks like he outproduced him in the real world. ANY/A is the stat that has the highest correlation with wins, that is a pretty significant difference between the 2. Stroud ranked 3rd, Love 9th. FWIW, Goff was 7th.

15 hours ago, Mdpackfan22 said:

-Top 3 OL

-Top 3 TE

-One of the best rushing attacks in the league 

-ARSB

 

Yeah the talent level on the Lions offense was pretty damn good in 2022

The ignorance that you continually show is absolutely hilarious. Do you think 7 games of TJ Hockenson and then 10 games of Brock Wright constitute a top 3 TE for the Lions? Sure they have ARSB, he had 1200 yards and 6 TDs as a sophomore. I wouldn't call him a top 10 WR at that point and then the rest of the WRs were DJ Chark, Kalif Raymond, and Josh Reynolds. Every weapon for the last 10 games were JAGs besides one guy. 

The Lions that year finished 11th in rushing yards and 15th in yards per rush. Does that sound like one of the best rushing attacks in the league or merely above average?

You continually hype of supporting casts to tear down the QBs. It can work if you don't lie about your claims, but your exaggerations are just absurd. 

[Mdpackfan22]

1 hour ago, LeotheLion said:

I didn't know you used stats, I thought it was just eye test?

Yards per attempt: Stroud 8.2, Love 7.2

Yards per game: Stroud 273.9, Love 244.6

TD/Int ratio: Stroud 4.6, Love 2.9

QB Rating: Stroud 100.8, Love 96.1

ANY/A: Stroud 7.47, Love 6.67

So it looks like he outproduced him in the real world. ANY/A is the stat that has the highest correlation with wins, that is a pretty significant difference between the 2. Stroud ranked 3rd, Love 9th. FWIW, Goff was 7th.

The ignorance that you continually show is absolutely hilarious. Do you think 7 games of TJ Hockenson and then 10 games of Brock Wright constitute a top 3 TE for the Lions? Sure they have ARSB, he had 1200 yards and 6 TDs as a sophomore. I wouldn't call him a top 10 WR at that point and then the rest of the WRs were DJ Chark, Kalif Raymond, and Josh Reynolds. Every weapon for the last 10 games were JAGs besides one guy. 

The Lions that year finished 11th in rushing yards and 15th in yards per rush. Does that sound like one of the best rushing attacks in the league or merely above average?

You continually hype of supporting casts to tear down the QBs. It can work if you don't lie about your claims, but your exaggerations are just absurd. 

I didn't know you used stats, casually forgetting the 23 rushing TDs. Good for 3rd in the league. The ignorance you continually show is absolutely hilarious