Enough with the KP narratives

[rlon]

Nobody needed to make this guy look bad, he did that himself. I rooted for him with all of my heart and because I thought the comeback potential would be matched with passing productivity at some point. It wasn’t, in two years, and he shrunk from competition first real challenge he got, even after they largely mismanaged the QB situation, arguably in his favor for the better part of two years. Who cares what his former coach says, the guy ( i.e. the coach)isn’t on the pro level and never will be. And, who cares what Steeler beat writers say…nobody needed to force a franchise protecting narrative, as it was clear to me, one of the most ardent Pickett supporters since the draft pick…that I was simply wrong. The guy is soft.

[Xmad]

Don't forget he has small hands.

[rlon]

Anyone have any thoughts on Texas A&M QB Weigman as a potential late round 1 through day 2 option for the Steelers? He moves around very well, good feel for pressure, while poised and accurate, with good arm strength. I see some day 3 estimates, but I think he will really climb much higher.

[rlon]

9 minutes ago, rlon said:

Anyone have any thoughts on Texas A&M QB Weigman as a potential late round 1 through day 2 option for the Steelers? He moves around very well, good feel for pressure, while poised and accurate, with good arm strength. I see some day 3 estimates, but I think he will really climb much higher.

Just to add to this, and I hope someone else has watched tape and or has an opinion here. What jumps out at me about Weigman is the quickness of his release. That and his accuracy are a recipe for success on any level. He needs to learn touch on the ball, however, particularly with deep passes, and like many other college QBs he is not going through pro level progressions or dealing with very tight windows yet. He seems to overthrow a little, and the ball will sail, more like a rocket ball than what would be the product of a lack of arm strength though. Is there some Favre in this guy? He’s more athletic. 

[Steeler Hitman]

On 6/29/2024 at 9:12 PM, rlon said:

Nobody needed to make this guy look bad, he did that himself.

I was one of the happiest fans that the Steelers were able to draft Kenny despite him not being necessarily my first choice for picks. Despite that I understood why Mr. Colbert drafted him.  He was not a sexy pick, but I thought he had what the Steelersers needed above neck and right below the chin (brains and heart/character).  I still like the kid, but I am disapointed with how he handled competition and adversity. 

I rooted for him with all of my heart and because I thought the comeback potential would be matched with passing productivity at some point.

I thought the same thing as well. I also defended him and criticized the staff for not always putting him in a position to be successful. Najee has encountered some of the same thing at RB with an inconsistent OL and a QB who couldn't scare a defense with his arm. 

It wasn’t, in two years, and he shrunk from competition first real challenge he got, even after they largely mismanaged the QB situation, arguably in his favor for the better part of two years.

He looked ready to take the next step, but after the first four games, he seemed to be a bit snake bit from good pass rushers, pressure, and a lack of a consistent run game. These are not things that you give a young QB to help in his development. I had said that he was mismanaged and as bad as everyone wanted to play him in his rookie season, I would have let him sit for a full year or at least until the end of the season. We've discussed all of this in the past, but the Steelers as an organization didn't do some things and Kenny also didn't step up to some things. As they say, you still play the hand that you are dealt. 

Who cares what his former coach says, the guy ( i.e. the coach) isn’t on the pro level and never will be. And, who cares what Steeler beat writers say…

Kenny's coach has to say something and bblme someone to help his client save face and gain some confidence. Beat writers and media will sway with the prevailing wind.  Some are probably the same people who said bench Kenny or let Mason start ahead of him.  

nobody needed to force a franchise protecting narrative, as it was clear to me, one of the most ardent Pickett supporters since the draft pick…that I was simply wrong. The guy is soft.

I was wrong too. I still hope he gets his act together. I am disapointed in his Pittsburgh experience. I hope he can learn and grow from it, be it not in Pittsburgh. The one saving grace is that I was in the process of ordering a Kenny Pickett jersey for 2024. 😁😂🤣😅 He at least kept me from wasting a $150.00. 

 

[warfelg]

17 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

Kenny's coach has to say something and bblme someone to help his client save face and gain some confidence. Beat writers and media will sway with the prevailing wind.

Tin foil hat time:

Kenny has been a shorts and helmet guy the entire time in his pro career. Every year he’s an OTA/Minicamp stud. 

So when you pair:

-Wilson isn’t the runaway winner of the comp so far. 

-Fields having small accuracy issues. 

-Hurts “looking bad” in OTAs. 

-Kenny “looking good” in OTAs. 

It becomes very easy for his personal coach to go “look they’re the issue”. 

I think the bigger issue though, and where something like this doesn’t help, the issue to him being out isn’t this stuff of performance because the tape is out there. It’s the character stuff that’s gone out. Can you say some of it is character assassination? Maybe. Wouldn’t be the first time the negative of a player was held back by local media and dumped after the fact. But because this is a guy that the character things are the problem, he and his people should keep their heads down and let his new teammates speak to that. 

I feel like if that narrative perpetuates and continues he’ll be the type of backup who just floats team to team every 1-2 years. Because to be Frank, he’s a good type of backup to have because he won’t cost you games. Granted he’s unlikely to win you games either. 

[Xmad]

I'd just like to point out in his entire career so far he's thrown 13 TDS and 13 Ints, 14-10 as a starter. 

Only once in his career did he throw for 300 yards (His first game on 54 throws) 1 game of multiple TD passes. (16 of 28 against the raiders....) oof.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask?q=pickett+all-time+record+as+starter

Ya'll drafted the best QB from the 2022 draft class. He's even a multiple time super bowl champion......Chris Oladokun....about 10 picks ahead of....top 10 QB....brock purdy.

Russel can't be that bad right? 

Fields is at least talented....if only he could throw consistently....

John Rhys Plumlee has tiny hands and he's under 6'0. The odds are against him.

Kyle Allen alleged bastard brother of Josh Allen (Jacksonville one) might be your best QB.

[3rivers]

KP wasn't good, but his OL was trash and OC shouldn't have even been in the league, but thats what tomlin wanted and had. KP better be much better in philly , because it can't get much worse . That 23' steelers offence was some of the worst ever

[rlon]

4 hours ago, 3rivers said:

KP wasn't good, but his OL was trash and OC shouldn't have even been in the league, but thats what tomlin wanted and had. KP better be much better in philly , because it can't get much worse . That 23' steelers offence was some of the worst ever

He will be a career backup if he stays in Philly, how will he be better if he doesn’t play? His preseason performance will be the indicator? We know he’s good before the games matter. 

[3rivers]

13 hours ago, rlon said:

He will be a career backup if he stays in Philly, how will he be better if he doesn’t play? His preseason performance will be the indicator? We know he’s good before the games matter. 

agree he will be QB2 over there, but he has a much better OL, coaching and possibly team overall. Just an all around better situation .  He's gone, was part of a terrible era here but not the entire reason it was terrible.  Grossly overpaid mitch was more terribler    , they over pay him and chuks but will let good OL like Daniels walk. The steeler way it seems.

I was a bit annoyed when the wilson talks were happening, but thats what tomlin needs to bail him out, a proven vet for next to free. Even with that, they still wasted opportunities this offseason (Sneed) . As a result, I expect more of the same, but if we play Baltimore in the playoffs (if we get in) then the playoff drought will be over with, thats about it. 

 

[3rivers]

On 7/3/2024 at 10:18 AM, warfelg said:

I feel like if that narrative perpetuates and continues he’ll be the type of backup who just floats team to team every 1-2 years. Because to be Frank, he’s a good type of backup to have because he won’t cost you games. Granted he’s unlikely to win you games either. 

I would say that KP had the worst situation here, terrible OL and coaching.

  He is in a much better place and could be decent there, or should be.  I can't evaluate his time here because this coaching staff and OL were that bad.  Maybe the Eagles will get 4th quarter KP all game with their coaches and OL so he might actually win games as well. Not a fan of his either, just stating the differences in the teams. 

He might be their Charlie Batch as well, could have another 10 years like that and nothing wrong with that. He won't be injured all the time and have to watch mitch hook slide way before the 1st down marker instead of diving for the 1st etc.....

It's not a major loss as of now for the steelers, KP didn't seem special thats for sure. They never prepared properly for Ben's exit, wasted Mason and had a terrible UFA signing mitch . Bens whining about retiring when he didn't get his way didn't help either.   Imagine if Wilson wasn't available what this team would be doing for QB? They probably trade much more to get Fields. 

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, 3rivers said:

I would say that KP had the worst situation here, terrible OL and coaching.

So? Also, that OL can't be so terrible that our run game could work the last two years to know what you have in Najee and simultaneously be so bad that you don't know with Kenny.

1 hour ago, 3rivers said:

He is in a much better place and could be decent there, or should be.  I can't evaluate his time here because this coaching staff and OL were that bad. 

You can easily evaluate him because there's tape and you can parse out what's on him and what isn't. Now opinions of those parts may differ, but you can still do that. 

Frankly - statements like this keep like the preemptive setup that if he even does ok, like needs to play 2 games and the Eagles go 2-0 or 1-1, like you are going to end up complaining and whining about our coaching staff and they should be fired because a player did better somewhere else. First off, it happens all around the NFL. Second off, most those guys people on here complained about going elsewhere ended up not having great seasons. Dodson is about the only one. I know raiders fans that ended up annoyed with Spillaine, Nelson was so unwanted he retired in his "prime" according to him, Witherspoon is still a FA, Sutton was frankly not good.

1 hour ago, 3rivers said:

Maybe the Eagles will get 4th quarter KP all game with their coaches and OL so he might actually win games as well. Not a fan of his either, just stating the differences in the teams. 

You keep coming back to OL and Coaches. I'm sure there's plenty of people on here who study tape much more than me who can tell you KP missed some rather easy ones that were layups. And the OL helps if he doesn't spin out of the pocket, walk himself into sacks, and hold the ball too long. Part of what makes the Eagles OL look so good is that Hurts knows how to avoid pressure, and the same was true with Foles. When it was Wentz, he had feel for the pocket like Kenny and the OL wasn't nearly as highly regarded.

If we're going to state differences how about also including better WR core, better TE group, better starting RB (yes I would take Saquon over Najee).

1 hour ago, 3rivers said:

It's not a major loss as of now for the steelers, KP didn't seem special thats for sure. They never prepared properly for Ben's exit, wasted Mason and had a terrible UFA signing mitch . Bens whining about retiring when he didn't get his way didn't help either.   Imagine if Wilson wasn't available what this team would be doing for QB? They probably trade much more to get Fields. 

Losing Kenny is a nothing for me. In fact it's a positive because Khan saw a chance to improve a positional group and took it.

Never preparing for Ben's exit is on the FO. They didn't waste Mason, it's not like he went out and signed a deal being a starter. They had a bad signing in Mitch because their backs were up against the wall. The situation wasn't great for a rookie, they were drafting too low, needed a QB in a terrible QB draft, and didn't exactly have the cap space to make a bold move (trading for a QB who wanted out). 

If Wilson wasn't available? We're likely bringing back Kenny for one last year. Mitch out. Maybe then we retain Mason and let those two battle it out.

IMO Kenny's issue was he never actually needed to 'win' anything. So the moment Khan and Tomlin said competition I'm sure his mind was made up he wanted out. He never was challenged at Pitt after becoming the starter despite 3/5 years being an UDFA type player. Then had one good year as a supersenior against a weak ACC that pushed him to the top of the QB board that year. Then through the predraft process no other QB did well enough to challenge him. Then here, it's not like he "won" the starting position, rather Mitch was so bad that Kenny needed to be put in. Then least year, again it's not that Kenny was challenged and won, it's that Mitch and Mason were so bad that Kenny wasn't challenged. 

We generally see the same thing over and over on and off the field with Kenny. It's that when he's challenged he tends to fold. Too much pressure? Let me roll out. First read isn't there? Let me just fling it over here without reading the field. Second read is covered? Oh I'm just going to start running with my eyes down.

 

Look, there's nothing wrong with being a career backup and a guy who can step in and help keep a team afloat when the starter goes down. In fact it's a great living. Ask Chase Daniel who made tens of millions doing just that.

The issue I have with Kenny is that narratives are being set up already that if he even looks average then people are going to blame the team. He had games where he looked average here and we thought and talked about "if you can just get that Kenny for 17 games you can win in the postseason". The issue is we have enough film to know that we can't rely on that. He's got more below average tape then average tape.

[3rivers]

KP missed a few for sure, not a real fan of KP either.  My point was that he was far from a decent situation here.  No point wasting time watching it over again either, life has other more important events that to rewatch one of the worst offences in memory. 

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

The issue I have with Kenny is that narratives are being set up already that if he even looks average then people are going to blame the team. He had games where he looked average here and we thought and talked about "if you can just get that Kenny for 17 games you can win in the postseason". The issue is we have enough film to know that we can't rely on that. He's got more below average tape then average tape.

why care much though? His environment here was bad, he might be better than we though. It's over with, it doesn't matter who is right or wrong about KP. Colbert was wrong about drafting him but GM's make mistakes as well. 

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Then least year, again it's not that Kenny was challenged and won, it's that Mitch and Mason were so bad that Kenny wasn't challenged. 

not IMO. It's the steeler way, he was drafted as the future and a RD1 pick - he plays out his contract and is almost unchallenged in the coaches eyes.  Mason stepped in and was much better (and this exposed tomlin) , but he wouldn't have had the chance if mitch wasn't so horrible.  Lets hope smith can get the most out of this offence, he's not a tomlin coaching tree hopeful, but rather an established OC in the league.

 

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Part of what makes the Eagles OL look so good is that Hurts knows how to avoid pressure, and the same was true with Foles. When it was Wentz, he had feel for the pocket like Kenny and the OL wasn't nearly as highly regarded.

Eagle OL is possibly the best, ours in the first half last year was terrible. 

KP might do well in philly, good for him. Here it wasn't good, not all his fault. This organization needs to get priorities in order, don't draft RB and QB in RD1 with no OL. Start there, and try to balance the cap spent on offence and defence. KP had one of the least costly offences, so that doesn't help either. 

while we are here  can I ask: did you think mitch was going to be that bad when we signed him?  I laughed about the signing, but thought he would be a bit better, not much but some.  What a bad signing, and Khan gives him and extra year 

 

[jebrick]

16 hours ago, rlon said:

He will be a career backup if he stays in Philly, how will he be better if he doesn’t play? His preseason performance will be the indicator? We know he’s good before the games matter. 

That was my ceiling for him when he was drafted

[Dcash4]

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

We generally see the same thing over and over on and off the field with Kenny. It's that when he's challenged he tends to fold.

We do? When?

You mean the time he came back from injury after his best game as a pro following the firing of the worst OC in the history of the NFL? Yeah, crazzzzy to be upset that you lost your job to injury after playing well. 

Or the Russell Wilson signing for "competition"? Except, no agent in their right mind would allow a 30+ year old vet seeking one last big contract to take a one year minimum deal where he isn't the starter. 

Can we stop acting like every player the steelers let go of this season were a menace to society?