RaidersAreOne Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 6 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Crazy right... been screaming about taking the best player for years, do it and some are unhappy. The Raiders got a top 7 player at 13 overall and some are mad because they didn't reach on a CB I guess in what was seen as the worst year for CB prospects in a few years. Top 7 is even too low imo. Positional value aside I think Brock was a top 4 player this draft (Caleb, Alt, Harrison, Bowers). I really liked Daniels, Fuaga, and others too of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 TE is undervalued. This ain’t 1995, these guys are lining up all over the place and catching 100 balls and we got one that blocks in the run game or even the a hand off. In a world where WRs like Aiyuk are commanding 30+ mil, give me a TE like Bowers all day 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said: Top 7 is even too low imo. Positional value aside I think Brock was a top 4 player this draft (Caleb, Alt, Harrison, Bowers). I really liked Daniels, Fuaga, and others too of course. Some people had him at 2 behind Harrison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: I read it's precautionary. Sore foot, he could play if there was a game tomorrow. Coo thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 3 hours ago, Geezy said: TE is undervalued. This ain’t 1995, these guys are lining up all over the place and catching 100 balls and we got one that blocks in the run game or even the a hand off. In a world where WRs like Aiyuk are commanding 30+ mil, give me a TE like Bowers all day Undervalued based on what exactly? Certainly not production... Three TE's over the last three decades have consistently produced at levels warranting a top 15 pick, Kelce, Gronk and Gonzo. Over the last 5 years give me one TE other than Kelce (Andrews had one monster season) that has the production average worthy of a top 15 pick in the 1st round? There are 32 teams in the NFL and one TE (Kelce) has consistently produced numbers worthy of a top 15 selection. FYI he has Pat Mahomes throwing him the ball not the staches... Hopefully Bowers will be added to that list but odds indicate that he will not. Kelce 1218/8.4 Andrews 861/7.4 Kittle 876/6 Like I have said if Mayer was the full time starter it would be safe to assume he would average 650/4. Is a top 15 pick worthy of an increase in production of 200 yards and 2 to 3 TD's, that is assuming he produces in line with Andrews and Kittle or are you claiming Bowers is a unicorn and his production will blow all of those players away? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 10 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Undervalued based on what exactly? Certainly not production... Three TE's over the last three decades have consistently produced at levels warranting a top 15 pick, Kelce, Gronk and Gonzo. Over the last 5 years give me one TE other than Kelce (Andrews had one monster season) that has the production average worthy of a top 15 pick in the 1st round? There are 32 teams in the NFL and one TE (Kelce) has consistently produced numbers worthy of a top 15 selection. FYI he has Pat Mahomes throwing him the ball not the staches... Hopefully Bowers will be added to that list but odds indicate that he will not. Kelce 1218/8.4 Andrews 861/7.4 Kittle 876/6 Like I have said if Mayer was the full time starter it would be safe to assume he would average 650/4. Is a top 15 pick worthy of an increase in production of 200 yards and 2 to 3 TD's, that is assuming he produces in line with Andrews and Kittle or are you claiming Bowers is a unicorn and his production will blow all of those players away? Who would you have taken over Bowers while on the clock at 13? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 3 hours ago, big_palooka said: Who would you have taken over Bowers while on the clock at 13? I don't watch much college football or study individual players due to time constraints. However I do understand value baed on roster needs and positional value. Based on our roster needs I have said may times that I would have been in favor of a slight trade up for a QB or a slight trade back for a CB or OT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 24 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: I don't watch much college football or study individual players due to time constraints. However I do understand value baed on roster needs and positional value. Based on our roster needs I have said may times that I would have been in favor of a slight trade up for a QB or a slight trade back for a CB or OT. So you’re making all this up off of perceived positional value. If we took Joe Schmo that played a position of need you’d be ok, only until they flopped then you’d be back on your dumpster fire rants. We been getting hosed for years drafting need, we take a stud BPA and it’s a problem, I don’t get it. also what you’re failing to understand, guys develop. It’s clear the believe in guys like Jakorian Bennett, who’s had a good camp. Guys develop and sometimes you can fill holes with guys already on the roster. And Glaze seems to be the RT of the future. There’s different ways to skin a cat. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 13 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Undervalued based on what exactly? Certainly not production... Three TE's over the last three decades have consistently produced at levels warranting a top 15 pick, Kelce, Gronk and Gonzo. Over the last 5 years give me one TE other than Kelce (Andrews had one monster season) that has the production average worthy of a top 15 pick in the 1st round? There are 32 teams in the NFL and one TE (Kelce) has consistently produced numbers worthy of a top 15 selection. FYI he has Pat Mahomes throwing him the ball not the staches... Hopefully Bowers will be added to that list but odds indicate that he will not. Kelce 1218/8.4 Andrews 861/7.4 Kittle 876/6 Like I have said if Mayer was the full time starter it would be safe to assume he would average 650/4. Is a top 15 pick worthy of an increase in production of 200 yards and 2 to 3 TD's, that is assuming he produces in line with Andrews and Kittle or are you claiming Bowers is a unicorn and his production will blow all of those players away? Bowers is seen as a generational prospect, and seems to be living up to the hype. You’re so enamored on stats, but look at the offenses those guys you named, all dynamic offenses and usually in the playoffs. Look at what LaPorta did for the Lions. We didn’t just take a TE, we took a guy that can excel in different roles and is a beast after the catch. I don’t think Bowers is getting 1000 plus this year, dude to QBs, other weapons and our run game. But he’ll be the #1 option when Adams is gone, similar to how Kelce is KCs 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 2 minutes ago, Geezy said: So you’re making all this up off of perceived positional value. If we took Joe Schmo that played a position of need you’d be ok, only until they flopped then you’d be back on your dumpster fire rants. We been getting hosed for years drafting need, we take a stud BPA and it’s a problem, I don’t get it. also what you’re failing to understand, guys develop. It’s clear the believe in guys like Jakorian Bennett, who’s had a good camp. Guys develop and sometimes you can fill holes with guys already on the roster. And Glaze seems to be the RT of the future. There’s different ways to skin a cat. Some people just don't get it. I don't know how to better explain my point than what has already been said. I am laying down facts and you're relying on emotion and feel good vibes. Like I have said over the last 30 years 3 TE's have proven to consistently produce at a level worthy of a top 15 selection. We already have Mayer a 2nd rounder from last year on the roster who would produce 650/4 if he was a full time player. We have glaring needs at QB, CB and OT yet we went with another TE. Is a top 15 pick worthy of a production increase of 200 or 2/3 if Bowers produces in line with Andrews or Kittle or are you saying Bowers, who has never taken an NFL snap is a far superior player to either of those two and will produce in line with HOFers like Kelce, Gronk and Gonzo? It's a simple question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 5 minutes ago, Geezy said: Bowers is seen as a generational prospect, and seems to be living up to the hype. You’re so enamored on stats, but look at the offenses those guys you named, all dynamic offenses and usually in the playoffs. Look at what LaPorta did for the Lions. We didn’t just take a TE, we took a guy that can excel in different roles and is a beast after the catch. I don’t think Bowers is getting 1000 plus this year, dude to QBs, other weapons and our run game. But he’ll be the #1 option when Adams is gone, similar to how Kelce is KCs 1. How would you define a TE's value without using stats? Emotion.... Got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 19 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: I don't watch much college football or study individual players due to time constraints. However I do understand value baed on roster needs and positional value. Based on our roster needs I have said may times that I would have been in favor of a slight trade up for a QB or a slight trade back for a CB or OT. What a cop out answer..... But I'll bite... Raiders have a franchise LT and drafted an OT in round 3. The CB class lacked a true #1 and was seen as one of the worst in a few years. And 2025's class looks exceptional by contrast. Not seeing the "value" of either position over a top 5 ranked player overall in Bowers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 7 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Some people just don't get it. I don't know how to better explain my point than what has already been said. I am laying down facts and you're relying on emotion and feel good vibes. Like I have said over the last 30 years 3 TE's have proven to consistently produce at a level worthy of a top 15 selection. We already have Mayer a 2nd rounder from last year on the roster who would produce 650/4 if he was a full time player. We have glaring needs at QB, CB and OT yet we went with another TE. Is a top 15 pick worthy of a production increase of 200 or 2/3 if Bowers produces in line with Andrews or Kittle or are you saying Bowers, who has never taken an NFL snap is a far superior player to either of those two and will produce in line with HOFers like Kelce, Gronk and Gonzo? It's a simple question... You don’t even know who youd draft, you’re just yapping. If you don’t know the players why not just wait and see how it plays out? No sense in the back and forth because you can’t even name a specific player who you’d have taken over him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 7 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Some people just don't get it. I don't know how to better explain my point than what has already been said. I am laying down facts and you're relying on emotion and feel good vibes. Like I have said over the last 30 years 3 TE's have proven to consistently produce at a level worthy of a top 15 selection. We already have Mayer a 2nd rounder from last year on the roster who would produce 650/4 if he was a full time player. We have glaring needs at QB, CB and OT yet we went with another TE. Is a top 15 pick worthy of a production increase of 200 or 2/3 if Bowers produces in line with Andrews or Kittle or are you saying Bowers, who has never taken an NFL snap is a far superior player to either of those two and will produce in line with HOFers like Kelce, Gronk and Gonzo? It's a simple question... By some people, you mean you? Facts - Bowers is seen as a generational TE talent. He was a projected top 5 pick. He dominated college football from his freshman year. You'd rather pass on a generational prospect for a RT or mid CB in a bad class because if Mayer. Moving on.... at least you finally said the quiet part out loud. You don't watch college football or study the players. That's all I need to know. You're opinion is meaningless on the subject. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 7 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: How would you define a TE's value without using stats? Emotion.... Got it. So stats are the only way to judge a players value? You’re a stat sheet guy, that don’t watch college football but has the strongest opinion of the draft lol got it… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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