Alabam DL Coach Karl Dunbar Hired To Be Steelers DL Coach

[Armsteeld2]

Sources: Alabama assistant (and Former Rex Ryan assistant) Karl Dunbar is in discussions with the #Steelers to be their next defensive line coach.

Twitter: Manish Mehta

Interesting!  Seems like Steelers are getting a great DL Coach and losing a great one as well.  Thoughts?  I’ll do more searching on Dunbar.

UPDATE: 

BREAKING | The Pittsburgh @Steelers are hiring Crimson Tide defensive line coach Karl Dunbar as their defensive line coach trib.al/brQXVki

[Blitzburgh]

Anyone have any news/update on Mitchell?

Seems odd we are hearing about a hiring without news of a departure.

[Armsteeld2]

More information regarding Dunbar and Mitchell courtesy of Steelers Depot:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/02/report-alabamas-karl-dunbar-discussions-steelers-next-dl-coach/

Seems Mitchell will groom Dunbar who is a former Steelers player and also coached with Coach Tomlin in Minnesota.

[VigilantZombie]

Apparently this is now a done deal and will soon be announced.

[warfelg]

Alabama has long run a hybrid 3-4/4-3 front under Saban and Dunbar's coaching.  I really like this move as Dunbar is great at coaching a 2-gap and 1-gap style player.  Met him at a coaching summit and he's a very smart, great communicating man.  Can really develop guys, and you saw it with how many Alabama front 7 prospects from from good players to elite prospects under him.

[August4th]

seems like everywhere he goes a solid to great D-line forms .. really like the hire

[Alex]

Who do you think benefits the most from this move? Player-wise.

What does this implicate? I think it suggests the Steelers want to continue with our defensive line being our "pass rushers" if anything, I think we are getting a nose tackle. Dunbar LOVES a nose tackle. 

[warfelg]

11 hours ago, Alex said:

Who do you think benefits the most from this move? Player-wise.

What does this implicate? I think it suggests the Steelers want to continue with our defensive line being our "pass rushers" if anything, I think we are getting a nose tackle. Dunbar LOVES a nose tackle. 

I think it benefits the OLB's to be honest.  His DL players aren't getting huge sack numbers.  He likes his OLB's to get depth collapse the pocket from behind into the penetrating DL players.

[Chieferific]

9 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I think it benefits the OLB's to be honest.  His DL players aren't getting huge sack numbers.  He likes his OLB's to get depth collapse the pocket from behind into the penetrating DL players.

Hmmmm, this sounds like the 3-4 of old. There are still a lot of holes to fill. A fat guy in the middle, at least 1 OLB (maybe he can make something out of Dupree), and 2 ILBs. What a mess. 

[warfelg]

Just now, Chieferific said:

Hmmmm, this sounds like the 3-4 of old. There are still a lot of holes to fill. A fat guy in the middle, at least 1 OLB (maybe he can make something out of Dupree), and 2 ILBs. What a mess. 

Nope.  It's not a difference in who you need.  It's a difference in assignments.  Bama doesn't 2 gap much outside of one of the DE's.  Otherwise it is a 1 gap front.  The 3-4 of old had 3 2-gap players.  Dunbar goes with 1 maybe 2 2-gap players at one time.

The difference comes in the last 2-3 years we haven't asked our OLB's to bend the edge or push in.  They were mearly bookends to contain the QB so Tuitt and Heyward would 1 gap up the gut.  With the fronts that Dunbar has coached, the OLB's are asked to push in from a back side contain.

The best analogy I can put this to:

Think of the old 3-4 as taking your trash and tying the top of the drawstring bag.  The bag is the 3 DL playing 2 gap.  The OLB's were the strings keeping it in there.  You are the secondary doing most of the work because the trash can't "figure out" how to escape (IE: The zone confused the QB and the rush was getting there because they had time)

The last few years were like stomping down into the bag but not tying it.  Your foot is now the 1-gap playing DL.  The OLB's were the bag just making sure nothing got out.  Doesn't always work.  You are the secondary, and unless you stomp quick and really cover it up, trash is likely flying out all over the place.  (IE: The back end isn't good enough to give the front time, so quick passes kill that)

Now imagine this under Dunbar: You take the bag, you stomp on the trash to put it under pressure, then you tie off the top very tight Infact you knot the bad as opposed to the strings. (IE: The pass rush puts pressure fast, closes in quicker, and leaves fewer openings, so the front and backend work in closer harmony)

So bringing this back to the field:

Dunbar is more going to put in a combo of what the old 3-4 was and is going to help sprinkle in 4-3 hybrid fronts.

I think with him, in run down 2-4-5 looks we see Tuitt-Hargraves or Alualu-Hargraves as the 2 DL players as opposed to Heyward and Tuitt.  In 3-4 looks I wouldn't be shocked to see some Hargrave-Heyward-Tuitt looks and have Tuitt and Hargrave 2-gap on guys that will need help on them while Heyward get's the center 1 on 1.  I would expect some more twists and stunts to see Dupree/Watt rushing from different places.

[Chieferific]

35 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Nope.  It's not a difference in who you need.  It's a difference in assignments.  Bama doesn't 2 gap much outside of one of the DE's.  Otherwise it is a 1 gap front.  The 3-4 of old had 3 2-gap players.  Dunbar goes with 1 maybe 2 2-gap players at one time.

The difference comes in the last 2-3 years we haven't asked our OLB's to bend the edge or push in.  They were mearly bookends to contain the QB so Tuitt and Heyward would 1 gap up the gut.  With the fronts that Dunbar has coached, the OLB's are asked to push in from a back side contain.

The best analogy I can put this to:

Think of the old 3-4 as taking your trash and tying the top of the drawstring bag.  The bag is the 3 DL playing 2 gap.  The OLB's were the strings keeping it in there.  You are the secondary doing most of the work because the trash can't "figure out" how to escape (IE: The zone confused the QB and the rush was getting there because they had time)

The last few years were like stomping down into the bag but not tying it.  Your foot is now the 1-gap playing DL.  The OLB's were the bag just making sure nothing got out.  Doesn't always work.  You are the secondary, and unless you stomp quick and really cover it up, trash is likely flying out all over the place.  (IE: The back end isn't good enough to give the front time, so quick passes kill that)

Now imagine this under Dunbar: You take the bag, you stomp on the trash to put it under pressure, then you tie off the top very tight Infact you knot the bad as opposed to the strings. (IE: The pass rush puts pressure fast, closes in quicker, and leaves fewer openings, so the front and backend work in closer harmony)

So bringing this back to the field:

Dunbar is more going to put in a combo of what the old 3-4 was and is going to help sprinkle in 4-3 hybrid fronts.

I think with him, in run down 2-4-5 looks we see Tuitt-Hargraves or Alualu-Hargraves as the 2 DL players as opposed to Heyward and Tuitt.  In 3-4 looks I wouldn't be shocked to see some Hargrave-Heyward-Tuitt looks and have Tuitt and Hargrave 2-gap on guys that will need help on them while Heyward get's the center 1 on 1.  I would expect some more twists and stunts to see Dupree/Watt rushing from different places.

Great analogy/breakdown. But doesn't 'Bama use a 2 Gap NT? Maybe I just assumed they did. I still see the need for a NT but that need can be addressed later in the draft as it would be a situational type need. Also, no matter the scheme, ILBs are a HUGE need with this Defense. I have zero faith in VW and whomever else is currently on the roster as the STARTERS. I'd be ok with Timmons coming back but not ecstatic and that still leaves a hole. Watt seems like he'd thrive in your described role but Dupree's effectiveness is "to be continued".  Again, great breakdown. If the Defense is headed in the direction as you describe, that's exciting. I do have some concerns over employing a 2-4-5 but maybe that has more to do with how it was ran last season. 

[Alex]

I would give Dupree another year; he's more efficient than Jarvis Jones ever was and better in coverage than Jason Worilds was. Everything our defense has done is based on a theory. 

If Hargraves could develop the run-stuffing ability. If Tuitt could be more consistent. If Vince Williams can play in the coverage. If Dupree can contain the run better. If Ryan Shazier is coming back or not. Only Cameron Heyward is a certainty on this defense and TJ Watt will be the huge benefactor from playing behind Cameron Heyward. In modern era; you aren't going to find a player like Patrick Willis just like you won't find a JJ Watt. We have to give up on that.

Instead, look at what we CAN fix; nose tackle is the most obvious answer. Not just Vita Vea but I really like Tim Settle (Also have thought about Da'Ron Payne, he's a really good player who lost weight to be more efficient, absolutely can survive in a modern 3-4 scheme as a nose tackle). It's a really good linebacker class, not so great pass-rushing class. 

Also, from what I see from Dunbar- we don't have the ideal personnel for his defense, however, I can see him applying his philosophy toward the current defense. More 4-2-5. The defensive linemen will do the pass-rushing and the ends will do more containing. This is why I absolutely love the idea of seeing Heyward being one on one against the center. I think it does give our defense more tune-up. Also, I think it'd also mean we are getting a true thumper in the draft maybe. Somebody who isn't that great in coverage but will kill you in the run game and with blitzing. Micah Kiser came to mind. 

[Armsteeld2]

When I read “Dupree in coverage” as a positive, I think to which game?  I can’t remember ONE game where Dupree was in Zone or Man and was in good coverage.  Simply dropping into space is why the Steelers medium Zone is so dang gone bad!  

[Alex]

5 minutes ago, Armsteeld2 said:

When I read “Dupree in coverage” as a positive, I think to which game?  I can’t remember ONE game where Dupree was in Zone or Man and was in good coverage.  Simply dropping into space is why the Steelers medium Zone is so dang gone bad!  

My comment about Dupree was generous. We didn't ask World's to drop in the coverage because he COULDN'T. Where Dupree does have the ability, doesn't mean he's good at it. Hopefully this clear up a bit.

[Armsteeld2]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

My comment about Dupree was generous. We didn't ask World's to drop in the coverage because he COULDN'T. Where Dupree does have the ability, doesn't mean he's good at it. Hopefully this clear up a bit.

Yeah that rant was more at the Steelers.  Hopefully our two new defensive coaches can show Butler that our OLBs need to be rushing and setting the edges rather than being wasted in space.  Steelers need to go back to the OLBs weighing between 240-250 and not guys weighing damn near 270.  Straight line speed is one of the most overrated traits of a player.