bruceb Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: Collins can be a play maker. Id love to see 16 games of Collins and Garrett on the field together. on 3rd downs we will have pass rushing options like. Garrett, Ogbah, Larry,Collins or other variations like Garrett Larry Ogbah collins, kirksey, peppers, joe s crowded near the line in a blitz package with some dropping back. Can't argue with any of that. But I am talking about taking the front 7 to a different level, and hedging the bet on health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 I’m not a fan of Mayfield or Allen. However, why is it okay to say Mayfield can be a Wilson or Brees, but you can’t say Allen can be the next Jim Kelly? Look at Kelly’s stats in college. They’re God awful compared to Allen’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Brett Favre is another guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke2056 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 33 minutes ago, candyman93 said: I’m not a fan of Mayfield or Allen. However, why is it okay to say Mayfield can be a Wilson or Brees, but you can’t say Allen can be the next Jim Kelly? Look at Kelly’s stats in college. They’re God awful compared to Allen’s. Are we comparing college stats from today to college stats of the 1980s?? Good lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, duke2056 said: Are we comparing college stats from today to college stats of the 1980s?? Good lord. In what era are these numbers considered good? I’m pretty sure having as many interceptions as touchdowns was never good. Year Team Passing Rushing Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A TD Int Rtg Att Yds Avg TD 1987 Southern Miss 79 194 40.7 1,264 6.5 15 13 107.6 57 169 3.0 1 1988 Southern Miss 178 319 55.8 2,271 7.1 16 5 129.0 51 -15 -0.3 0 1989 Southern Miss 206 381 54.1 2,588 6.8 14 10 118.0 43 -25 -0.6 0 1990 Southern Miss 150 275 54.5 1,572 5.7 7 6 106.6 42 -218 -5.2 0 Career 613 1,169 52.4 7,695 6.6 52 34 116.6 193 -89 -0.5 1 Year Team Games Passing G Rec Att Cmp Pct Yds TD Int Rate 1979 Miami 11 5–6–0 104 48 46.2 721 5 6 108.7 1980 Miami 12 9–3–0 206 109 52.9 1,519 11 7 125.7 1981 Miami 11 9–2–0 285 168 58.9 2,403 14 14 136.2 1982 Miami 7–4–0 81 51 63.0 585 3 1 133.4 Career 45 30–15 676 376 55.6 5,228 33 28 128.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke2056 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Well, we have a new way of choosing our QBs. "Hey, he didn't suck as much as a couple guys from 30 years ago who became good after a few years in the USFL". I mean, why bother comparing him to the 99% of guys with similar stats who sucked in the NFL when we can compare him to the 2 or 3 who did well. Logic 101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGK Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 hour ago, candyman93 said: I’m not a fan of Mayfield or Allen. However, why is it okay to say Mayfield can be a Wilson or Brees, but you can’t say Allen can be the next Jim Kelly? Look at Kelly’s stats in college. They’re God awful compared to Allen’s. Yeah, Duke is dead on. It's because you can't cherry pick one guy from 35 years ago as a case for a modern QB. The game has changed sooooo much. The reason you can say it for Mayfield is that there are guys, right now, succeeding in the NFL despite size issues. There is no active, successful QB who was as bad in college as Allen, and he was that bad at freaking Wyoming. Imagine if he had had to play SEC or BIG10 defenses regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 29 minutes ago, duke2056 said: Well, we have a new way of choosing our QBs. "Hey, he didn't suck as much as a couple guys from 30 years ago who became good after a few years in the USFL". I mean, why bother comparing him to the 99% of guys with similar stats who sucked in the NFL when we can compare him to the 2 or 3 who did well. Logic 101 I think his argument was more along the lines of why can't you do this for Allen, seeing as many do it for Mayfield when they compare him to Brees/Wilson (the two best ever 6ft QBs) and not all the other small guys that put up similar college careers, like Moore, McCoy, Keenum, Wuerffel, Murray, Harrell etc. I'm not really a fan of either guy, or saying a prospect can be a certain NFL player in general, but I get his point personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGK Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 12 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said: I think his argument was more along the lines of why can't you do this for Allen, seeing as many do it for Mayfield when they compare him to Brees/Wilson (the two best ever 6ft QBs) and not all the other small guys that put up similar college careers, like Moore, McCoy, Keenum, Wuerffel, Murray, Harrell etc. I'm not really a fan of either guy, or saying a prospect can be a certain NFL player in general, but I get his point personally. Probably because the list you offered, (outside of maybe Keenum), COMBINED have about the same arm strength as Mayfield . Height isn't usually what kills QBs, it's that short QBs usually don't have strong arms. Mayfield isn't on Allen's level, but he's up there with the rest of the QB class this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said: Probably because the list you offered, (outside of maybe Keenum), COMBINED have about the same arm strength as Mayfield . Height isn't usually what kills QBs, it's that short QBs usually don't have strong arms. Mayfield isn't on Allen's level, but he's up there with the rest of the QB class this year. I think what kills short QBs is mostly the struggle to throw in a muddy pocket with gigantic linemen of both teams around them. Brees has a special ability to find passing lanes and has otherworldly accuracy. Wilson is such a special athlete that he often takes five step drops even out of the shotgun, to gain depth. Then he also has the ability to run around and make things happen on the fly. I don’t know where the idea of Mayfield having a super strong arm comes from. Maybe it’s that deep shot against Texas. I’ve seen him underthrow balls a good few times. I’m also worried about his deep out to the opposite hash. All that being said, I’ll admit I’m not worried about Mayfield failing because he doesn’t have requisite arm strength. It’s other things. By no means should Allen be compared to Favre and Kelly. I think Allen is an inaccurate QB and won’t succeed. But I also think by no means should Mayfield be compared to Brees and Wilson. That’s just as wild in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 hour ago, duke2056 said: Well, we have a new way of choosing our QBs. "Hey, he didn't suck as much as a couple guys from 30 years ago who became good after a few years in the USFL". I mean, why bother comparing him to the 99% of guys with similar stats who sucked in the NFL when we can compare him to the 2 or 3 who did well. Logic 101 How many short QBs have sucked but still put up crazy numbers? So how can we say Mayfield is the next Brees or RW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke2056 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 28 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said: I think his argument was more along the lines of why can't you do this for Allen, seeing as many do it for Mayfield when they compare him to Brees/Wilson (the two best ever 6ft QBs) and not all the other small guys that put up similar college careers, like Moore, McCoy, Keenum, Wuerffel, Murray, Harrell etc. I'm not really a fan of either guy, or saying a prospect can be a certain NFL player in general, but I get his point personally. It's a terrible analogy though. Mayfield was actually a great college QB. How is comparing Allen to guys of yesteryear who were bad remotely the same? I would say a higher percentage (handily) of players who played great in college ended up playing great in the NFL than the percentage of guys who were not that great in college who ended up playing great in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke2056 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, candyman93 said: How many short QBs have sucked but still put up crazy numbers? So we can say Mayfield is the next Brees or RW? I dont like either of them. I just think there is atrocious arguing and ridiculous attempts at making points going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke2056 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, candyman93 said: How many short QBs have sucked but still put up crazy numbers? So we can say Mayfield is the next Brees or RW? That, and sometimes you just have to look beyond the numbers...............if you can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger murdock Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 43 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said: Yeah, Duke is dead on. It's because you can't cherry pick one guy from 35 years ago as a case for a modern QB. The game has changed sooooo much. The reason you can say it for Mayfield is that there are guys, right now, succeeding in the NFL despite size issues. There is no active, successful QB who was as bad in college as Allen, and he was that bad at freaking Wyoming. Imagine if he had had to play SEC or BIG10 defenses regularly. I think he would have been a star if he had SEC or Big Ten talent around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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