SDotNova Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, jetskid007 said: You all may think I'm crazy, but I think there's only two things that separates Josh Rosen and Peyton Manning as prospects: (1) name; (2) maturity & intangible questions. Look at Manning's player profile from 1998... To take it a step further, look at some of the measurables... Manning: 6'5 1/4", 230 lb., (27.1 BMI), 31.5" arm, 10.125" hand, 28 wonderlic Rosen: 6'4", 226 lb. (27.5 BMI), 31.75" arm, 9.875" hand, 29 wonderlic That's how I look at Rosen. Maybe not the same career as Peyton, but he has the kind of talent where he can put a team on his back and consistently win for you. Whether or not he's as committed to the game as Manning will make the difference between him being a future Hall of Famer or not. I think that's the biggest thing with these 4 QB's. If they are committed, they'll be good to great. I forget who said it but they pointed to QB's like Matt Barkley and said part of the reason why he flopped is because he wasn't committed. Some of these guys are just good at the game. I think it was Willie Colon. He named another player who I am forgetting. But Rosen does have that level of potential for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, jetskid007 said: You all may think I'm crazy, but I think there's only two things that separates Josh Rosen and Peyton Manning as prospects: (1) name; (2) maturity & intangible questions. Look at Manning's player profile from 1998... To take it a step further, look at some of the measurables... Manning: 6'5 1/4", 230 lb., (27.1 BMI), 31.5" arm, 10.125" hand, 28 wonderlic Rosen: 6'4", 226 lb. (27.5 BMI), 31.75" arm, 9.875" hand, 29 wonderlic That's how I look at Rosen. Maybe not the same career as Peyton, but he has the kind of talent where he can put a team on his back and consistently win for you. Whether or not he's as committed to the game as Manning will make the difference between him being a future Hall of Famer or not. I see more a Matt Ryan type guy from Rosen early that can develop into that Rodgers type as he matures. Where with Mayfield is a Case Keenum type guy initially that potentially could become Wilson. I’ll take option 1 all day over 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwhich2 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 On this "committed to the game" BS going around also: There aren't many people in the world that are actually "committed to the game" as in they love football and will do anything for football. You just have to think if it from a sense of "will he be committed to his craft and his job." Curtis Martin did not like the game of football particularly. However, he was the type of person that believed if you did something, you should put all your ability into it and make sure you do it right. He also recognized what the game could mean for him and his family. Your motivation doesn't have to be a love of the game. Sure that helps, but it's not the end all. About Rosen: (disclaimer being that there's no actual indication that he doesn't love the game but whatever). If you're looking for proof that Rosen is going to be dedicated to his craft just look at his sports life so far. He comas from a tennis background where form is extremely important and can only be found/maintainded through constant practice, dedication, and attention to detail. This shows in his football game too. You don't become labeled a "technician" without extreme dedication and practice. Outside interests don't ewally matter when you're getting your **** together and keeping up on your game. His work and style shows more than enough to me that he's focused and that motivation won't be an issue. Rosen is obviously talented but his strengths aren't just about being inherently good at football. They have a lot more to do with receiving and utilizing proper coaching throughout his life, and understanding things at a conceptual level because he's a smart dude that questions stuff. Nothing being said about Rosen is bad to me. Its all good. Sorry he's not Jamal Adams saying he would die on the field or whatever but stop questioning the dudes "commitment." ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDotNova Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, Sandwhich2 said: Deep ball accuracy? For real? I found one "deep ball" in 5 games watching Mayfield that didn't require his WR to make a drastic adjustment and it was to Dede Westbrook in 2016. His strengths arr his mobility, intermediate accuracy, and that he reads the field better than probably any of the QBs in the class. His deep ball is very problematic to me, and I don't think he actually knows how to properly sit and deliver in the pocket but realizes on very good mobility to get our and reset his feet. I barely ever saw him take a step up, reset, throw or even side step, reset, and throw. It's alway, Wait until pocket breaks down, run away 5 to 6 steps, reset, throw. He gets away with that because he's got a very quick release and gets back into stance quickly, but it worries me. Still Rosen for me as my top choice. I'd be fine with Baker also but I can't understand some of the evaluations on him. His height has nothing to do with my evaluation by the way, so don't come at me with that. By decision making, I also meant reading the field/defense. So, I think we are both in agreement there. He is the best processor of the top 4 QBs with Rosen a close second. I agree about his mobility and intermediate accuracy. I also agree with you on him not being able to sit in the pocket. He rolls out to buy himself more time and some times he does that prematurely. But he is able to roll out in either direction and set his feet properly. He also rolls out while still looking down field with the intention of passing the ball. I think the only thing we disagree with is deep ball accuracy. I'll watch more of him this weekend but I always saw him hitting his receivers in stride on deep balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwhich2 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Yeah we definitely agree for the most part. If you find any good deep ball clips hit me up with them, I definitely haven't watched every game of his hah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Rolling out of shotgun is much easier than coming out of under center. lol. He will learn how to deal with NFL speed anyway. As for deep ball crap, it doesn't require deep ball in Bates' playbook as it probably limits to Robby Anderson and his replacement for few deep routes. Save deep balls for creative runs by receivers such as fake, fast start, break free, etc. Mayfield can do those but as far as "contest" deep ball is concerned, Mayfield needs to figure out how to make money throws in NFL. Many NFL qbs with average arm can make deep throws. Why can't Mayfield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Bobby816 said: And I disagree with that. Back when Daniel was playing the spread system wasn’t nearly as common as it is now. So it was looked at as a huge knock on him, where as now tons of teams run it. Package that with him being nearly 2” shorter than that of Mayfield that’s why he was an UDFA. I’ll 100% say I think Mayfield is a better prospect than that if Daniel. But I just cannot get behind Mayfield being 3rd pick worthy. At 6 I said I’d be ok with drafting him. At 3 I’ll even be ok with drafting him. But will not like it at all of Darnold or Rosen are available. I don’t think at all Darnold will be there... but Rosen I think will. And I believe drafting Mayfield over Rosen will haunt us. Especially if it’s the Bills or Dolphins who then trade up and grab him. It doesn't matter. Guys played in the pistol, etc. that were not NFL type offenses. It's the same thing. And he's 3/4 of an inches shorter, not two. And again, saying you're comfortable with someone at 6, but not at a 3 makes no sense. Either you think the guy is a franchise QB or not. If so, it shouldn't matter when you take him. If you don't, it's cool, but then he's not worth a first round pick in your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Bobby816 said: The greats don’t need that though. You can put Brady, Rodgers, Brees in any system and they will succeed. My point is... you don’t need to cater every detail of the franchise to Rosen like you do with Mayfield. Of course you want to add weapons and try and work the best scheme for your QB. But the options are way more wide open with Rosen then that of Mayfield. Another thing I haven’t seen may talk about is how long Mayfield had to throw a lot of the time. You watch some of his highlights and he has a lot of TDs where he had like 8 seconds to throw the ball with no one close to him. Something that will never happen at the next level. That's not true. Brees didn't thrive in San Diego. Put Brady in a Harbaugh's offense that he ran in San Fran. Would he succeed in an option based offense? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 57 minutes ago, SDotNova said: Every QB is a system QB even the greats. Have Brady run RPOs and see what happens. You are giving credit to Oklahoma's success to everyone except their main guy. Baker is the only first round talent they have on that offense. Aside from Baker, they have a TE who may be a day 2 pick and another FB/TE who is a day 3 pick. They also have an OT who will likely be a day 2 pick. Maquise Brown may also eventually be a day 2 prospects. I'm sure you have more NFL talent on USC. Georgia and OSU definitely have more NFL talent on their defenses. Exactly. Ever QB is a system QB and there's always a system that someone doesn't fit in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said: That's not true. Brees didn't thrive in San Diego. Put Brady in a Harbaugh's offense that he ran in San Fran. Would he succeed in an option based offense? Nope. You’re missing the point though. The point is Mayfield needs a very specific system for him to succeed. Rosen doesn’t. What can’t Rosen run? A read option offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.O Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Screw this let’s just run Wild Cat 100% of the time now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said: That's not true. Brees didn't thrive in San Diego. Put Brady in a Harbaugh's offense that he ran in San Fran. Would he succeed in an option based offense? Nope. Brees didn't thrive in SD? That is new to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: You’re missing the point though. The point is Mayfield needs a very specific system for him to succeed. Rosen doesn’t. What can’t Rosen run? A read option offense? I'm not missing the point. You said Rosen can succeed in any system, which isn't true. Every QB has an ideal system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Dr.O said: Screw this let’s just run Wild Cat 100% of the time now Yeah... Forget top qbs and draft Mike White for that formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Just now, JetsandI said: Brees didn't thrive in SD? That is new to me. He played at a top 10-15 level. Not a top 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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