Broncos trade for Su'a Cravens safety from Redskins

[DoleINGout]

On 3/28/2018 at 6:15 PM, Broncofan said:

Love the deal.  Just wish we had passed on resigning Todd Davis.   Cravens actually fits a big need for us.   Davis was an uninspired signing.  This is great for us with the low price (LAR 5th from Talib trade and moving 7 spots in Rd 4-5 2x).   Davis and Marshall can’t be on the field together for passing downs and even on 1st down O’s just exploited our TE/RB lack of coverage from our ILB’s.  This helps a lot there. 

WAS wasn’t getting anything more of value given last year so this is getting max value from a sunk cost for them.  The extra 3rd y year is a big future plus for Elway. 

With our cap situation and the reality that we aren’t legit contenders for 2018 this helps our long term team construction and cap health.   Veldheer was a stopgap but we needed to keep the Qb from getting killed. This is a much stronger long term move.  Tip my cap to Elway here.   

I consider the Broncos a contender this season.

[Marcus21]

There is no way he was coming back to Washington. If we couldn't have found a trade partner, he would have been cut. He was toxic in the locker room. His rookie season wasn't without issue. He had a bruise on his arm and refused to play while hurt......not injured. This rubbed some players the wrong way when he was seen playing ping pong in the locker room with the "injured" arm. Then he had the "retirement" issue just after the last cut down to 53. Maybe he will get his act together and contribute for Denver. I don't think he was going to beat out Monte Nicholson or DJ Swearinger for one of our starting safety positions. We tried to play him as a nickel/dime linebacker and he cried about that continuously. Personally, I am glad we got anything for him.

[Broncofan]

6 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

I consider the Broncos a contender this season.

Too many holes to fill, and too little talent...

1.  OL - Veldheer was a massive need move, our RT talent is literally nonexistent.  He's still got risk.  Our rookie LT led the league in holding penalties, and is 26.  Our G's are either young and unproven (McGovern) or have injury concerns that make it hard to think beyond 2018 (Leary's back & knee), and a C who when healthy in 2015-6 was a top 5 guy - but coming off 2 hip surgeries, was a bottom 10 guy, being overpowered week in & week out.   

2.  RB & TE - we have young guys, and a lot of unproven players.  CJ Anderson is on his way out, with our cap situation, Elway's not even committed to him this season being on the roster after the draft.  Jake Butt is a great value pick last year - but no guarantee he's the same after 2nd ACL injury, or he puts it together in year 2.   The problem is we lack big play guys at either spot.   

3.  ILB play - Cravens addresses the pass-covering side, but it doesn't change the fact both our ILB's are very limited (Marshall's injuries robbed him of his range, and Davis was just a 2-down run stuffer exposed with any type of pass coverage).  At least our HC & Elway both ID'd LB will get addressed long-term this draft (Day 2-3).

4.  DL - this was supposed to be an area of strength - but with Wolfe's neck injury, and Gotsis’ arrest (who was just a run-stuffer so far, but those matter), sudden we're very thin in dependable talent.  We had to get a 6th DL in FA DL Clinton McDonald because of this sudden loss of depth.

5.  Secondary - Talib wasn't let go because he was awful - he was too expensive to keep given the risk of decline this year, and even more the next.  We needed the $ to rebalance our roster - but in doing so, we also thinned out the key pillar of our D (with our EDGES) - the No-Fly zone is now really only bringing back Chris Harris as an All-Pro/Pro-Bowl talent at the peak of his game.  We hope Bradley Roby is able to step up into the 2nd CB role, but it's no given.   And our 3rd CB is a mess - our 3.99 pick last year,  Braden Langley, was a horrible reach.   Not football-ready.   If he can contribute in Year 3, it would be a surprise....just meh when you look at the CB crop last year, so deep, but that's Elway's famous Day 2 weakness to reach badly for tool-project guys with zero football skills.   We did get FA Tremaine Brock we hope he can be our slot guy.  If he isn’t we are in big trouble.  

5.  3rd WR - no options we can count on, as Elway's Day 2 MO of going insane-physical-tools-but-raw-to-no-fooball-skills profile again took Carlos Henderson, who got a redshirt year for a 4-week injury on IR-no return.  Before guys like Kenny Golladay and Chris Godwin and Dede Westbrook went (and even guys like Chad Williams and Josh Reynolds taken later offer real hope - and to be fair, at least Westbrook had off-the-field flags).    Our top 2 WR's are still effective, but not game-breakers, ballfight-winners, they're hitting that age where they are great dependable guys, but we need true threats at 3rd WR (or TE/RB in pass-catching) - otherwise, teams can take both guys out pretty easily. 

And all of those issues are there before we figure out if Keenum is an OK QB with a much worse OL, less talent at the skill positions, and a D that won't be elite like 2017 MIN's.

We have holes, aging talent - and worst of all, we have little to no cap space left (30th out of 32 teams for 2019+).  Even if we unload 5-6 aging expensive or injury-risk vets (Wolfe, Leary, Marshall, Stewart, one of our 2 WR's in Sanders/Thomas), we'd still be a bottom-10 team in cap space - and then have those 5-6 spots to fill.    And while some of those holes may be filled with stopgaps - the reality is we really only return to contention if we start drafting well like Elway used to before becoming a need-early guy once we were contenders.  And fixing his Day 2 MO weakness.    If you look at our draft history, the reinforcements from 2014-16 not coming are why we are in this predicament.  And 2017 isn't looking great.  So it's hard to then hope Elway will knock it out of the park for 2018, given his history.  

So, I wish I shared your view.  I'd love nothing more to be wrong here on this take, but it doesn't look good at all for 2018.  Signings like Cravens, though, gives real hope for 2019+ - which is a more realistic goal for us.  Being from a perennial winner, though, Elway can't just blow it up and not even try for 2018, I get the PR angle - but these are the moves we need to be doing with our cap health and lack of overall talent on our roster.   

[DoleINGout]

3 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Too many holes to fill, and too little talent...

1.  OL - Veldheer was a massive need move, our RT talent is literally nonexistent.  He's still got risk.  Our rookie LT led the league in holding penalties, and is 26.  Our G's are either young and unproven (McGovern) or have injury concerns that make it hard to think beyond 2018 (Leary's back & knee), and a C who when healthy in 2015-6 was a top 5 guy - but coming off 2 hip surgeries, was a bottom 10 guy, being overpowered week in & week out.   

2.  RB & TE - we have young guys, and a lot of unproven players.  CJ Anderson is on his way out, with our cap situation, Elway's not even committed to him this season being on the roster after the draft.  Jake Butt is a great value pick last year - but no guarantee he's the same after 2nd ACL injury, or he puts it together in year 2.   The problem is we lack big play guys at either spot.   

3.  ILB play - Cravens addresses the pass-covering side, but it doesn't change the fact both our ILB's are very limited (Marshall's injuries robbed him of his range, and Davis was just a 2-down run stuffer exposed with any type of pass coverage).  At least our HC & Elway both ID'd LB will get addressed long-term this draft (Day 2-3).

4.  DL - this was supposed to be an area of strength - but with Wolfe's neck injury, and Gotsis’ arrest (who was just a run-stuffer so far, but those matter), sudden we're very thin in dependable talent.  We had to get a 6th DL in FA DL Clinton McDonald because of this sudden loss of depth.

5.  Secondary - Talib wasn't let go because he was awful - he was too expensive to keep given the risk of decline this year, and even more the next.  We needed the $ to rebalance our roster - but in doing so, we also thinned out the key pillar of our D (with our EDGES) - the No-Fly zone is now really only bringing back Chris Harris as an All-Pro/Pro-Bowl talent at the peak of his game.  We hope Bradley Roby is able to step up into the 2nd CB role, but it's no given.   And our 3rd CB is a mess - our 3.99 pick last year,  Braden Langley, was a horrible reach.   Not football-ready.   If he can contribute in Year 3, it would be a surprise....just meh when you look at the CB crop last year, so deep, but that's Elway's famous Day 2 weakness to reach badly for tool-project guys with zero football skills.   We did get FA Tremaine Brock we hope he can be our slot guy.  If he isn’t we are in big trouble.  

5.  3rd WR - no options we can count on, as Elway's Day 2 MO of going insane-physical-tools-but-raw-to-no-fooball-skills profile again took Carlos Henderson, who got a redshirt year for a 4-week injury on IR-no return.  Before guys like Kenny Golladay and Chris Godwin and Dede Westbrook went (and even guys like Chad Williams and Josh Reynolds taken later offer real hope - and to be fair, at least Westbrook had off-the-field flags).    Our top 2 WR's are still effective, but not game-breakers, ballfight-winners, they're hitting that age where they are great dependable guys, but we need true threats at 3rd WR (or TE/RB in pass-catching) - otherwise, teams can take both guys out pretty easily. 

And all of those issues are there before we figure out if Keenum is an OK QB with a much worse OL, less talent at the skill positions, and a D that won't be elite like 2017 MIN's.

We have holes, aging talent - and worst of all, we have little to no cap space left (30th out of 32 teams for 2019+).  Even if we unload 5-6 aging expensive or injury-risk vets (Wolfe, Leary, Marshall, Stewart, one of our 2 WR's in Sanders/Thomas), we'd still be a bottom-10 team in cap space - and then have those 5-6 spots to fill.    And while some of those holes may be filled with stopgaps - the reality is we really only return to contention if we start drafting well like Elway used to before becoming a need-early guy once we were contenders.  And fixing his Day 2 MO weakness.    If you look at our draft history, the reinforcements from 2014-16 not coming are why we are in this predicament.  And 2017 isn't looking great.  So it's hard to then hope Elway will knock it out of the park for 2018, given his history.  

So, I wish I shared your view.  I'd love nothing more to be wrong here on this take, but it doesn't look good at all for 2018.  Signings like Cravens, though, gives real hope for 2019+ - which is a more realistic goal for us.  Being from a perennial winner, though, Elway can't just blow it up and not even try for 2018, I get the PR angle - but these are the moves we need to be doing with our cap health and lack of overall talent on our roster.   

Yah but I think I think the Broncos are a contender this season.

[renndawg37]

On 3/30/2018 at 5:03 PM, DoleINGout said:

Yah but I think I think the Broncos are a contender this season.

Can't argue with the points you made. 

[Oregon Ducks]

On 3/30/2018 at 4:13 AM, DoleINGout said:

I consider the Broncos a contender this season.

Is Elway playing QB?

[DoleINGout]

5 hours ago, Oregon Ducks said:

Is Elway playing QB?

No but Paxton Lynch won't be on the team either so...

[Leoric]

On 4/3/2018 at 2:22 PM, Oregon Ducks said:

Is Elway playing QB?

Elway is really old but still looks to be in great shape. Tbh they probably could do worse. Favre played till he was like 90 and had to be retired for almost five years before I stopped thinking he was coming back.