Forge Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, beekay414 said: lol which thread? I'm home sick with the flu and I could use some entertainment. The team discussion thread. I was just a jerk in one of my responses lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 Just now, Forge said: The team discussion thread. I was just a jerk in one of my responses lol. Ha, yeah, I see it now. You can always count on the same dudes to be subtle asshats. They are almost always passive aggressive and think their stances are right no matter how much they have to stretch them to fit their narrative. Is Scooooot the same dude that loves to use 5x5 primary assists or PER/60 numbers to "show" that Miles Wood is an NHLer? Or is that Devilsblood? Cuz I always laugh at **** like that. That would be like me using NBA PER/36 numbers for a guy that comes off the bench for 10 minutes a night to show that he could be a valuable starter lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Ha, yeah, I see it now. You can always count on the same dudes to be subtle asshats. They are almost always passive aggressive and think their stances are right no matter how much they have to stretch them to fit their narrative. Is Scooooot the same dude that loves to use 5x5 primary assists or PER/60 numbers to "show" that Miles Wood is an NHLer? Or is that Devilsblood? Cuz I always laugh at **** like that. That would be like me using NBA PER/36 numbers for a guy that comes off the bench for 10 minutes a night to show that he could be a valuable starter lol. I think that is devilsblood, who honestly, outside of the ridiculousness of that argument, hasn't been so bad when I have dealt with him. So somebody on the main board offered from Colorado offered: 2020 1st Zadorov Vladislav Kamenov Sampo Ranta for Coleman & Vats Would you do that deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, Forge said: I think that is devilsblood, who honestly, outside of the ridiculousness of that argument, hasn't been so bad when I have dealt with him. So somebody on the main board offered from Colorado offered: 2020 1st Zadorov Vladislav Kamenov Sampo Ranta for Coleman & Vats Would you do that deal? No. Especially considering they have no leverage in regards to Zadorov. They'd have to do a lot better on the prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 1 minute ago, beekay414 said: No. Especially considering they have no leverage in regards to Zadorov. They'd have to do a lot better on the prospects. See, I'd actually take it in a heartbeat just because of Zadorov (he'd have to be extended prior to the trade though even though he's only an rfa), though you are correct, outside of the market demand, they don't have leverage there unless they want to potentially lose him for nothing in the expansion draft. I'd prefer a better player / prospect than Kamenev (okay with Ranta as a high end flier....he's the equivalent of that 18 year old low A / rookie ball dominican pitcher who throws 102. Most of the time, nothing really comes out of them, but every now and again...boom)...I'd love to get Helleson in there instead, I think. But yeah, I think I'm okay with this return. Talk is that the Kings are only looking for a 2nd + prospect or 2 seconds for Martinez, which is super annoying because he's a defenseman with term. Whether he's better than Vats, I can't really say, but that's a weak return. So I'm thinking the price point for Vats is a 2nd + prospect. So to get a bottom 4 d-man (LIS, I'd want him locked up) + a 1st for Coleman would be insane, and two prospects for Vats wouldn't be crazy. Or if you want to think of it as Z + prospect for Coleman (still a crazy return) w/1st + prospect for Vats (crazy return). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Forge said: See, I'd actually take it in a heartbeat just because of Zadorov (he'd have to be extended prior to the trade though even though he's only an rfa), though you are correct, outside of the market demand, they don't have leverage there unless they want to potentially lose him for nothing in the expansion draft. I'd prefer a better player / prospect than Kamenev (okay with Ranta as a high end flier....he's the equivalent of that 18 year old low A / rookie ball dominican pitcher who throws 102. Most of the time, nothing really comes out of them, but every now and again...boom)...I'd love to get Helleson in there instead, I think. But yeah, I think I'm okay with this return. Talk is that the Kings are only looking for a 2nd + prospect or 2 seconds for Martinez, which is super annoying because he's a defenseman with term. Whether he's better than Vats, I can't really say, but that's a weak return. So I'm thinking the price point for Vats is a 2nd + prospect. So to get a bottom 4 d-man (LIS, I'd want him locked up) + a 1st for Coleman would be insane, and two prospects for Vats wouldn't be crazy. Or if you want to think of it as Z + prospect for Coleman (still a crazy return) w/1st + prospect for Vats (crazy return). I dunno. I'd want better than Kamenev. He's already 23 and not waivers eligible so we'd either have to keep him in Bingo or in Jersey. If they made it Bowers, I pull the trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 1 minute ago, beekay414 said: I dunno. I'd want better than Kamenev. He's already 23 and not waivers eligible so we'd either have to keep him in Bingo or in Jersey. If they made it Bowers, I pull the trigger. Yeah, that's my only real complaint on the offer. I think I'd want something just more appealing than Kamenev. Not even necessarily better lol. Like, Helleson, Bowers, several of their mid top 10 types who may never become anything at the nhl level are just flat out more appealing than Kamenev given waivers, rfa, age, etc. Kamenev could certainly get somewhere at some point (injuries haven't helped), but he's a two way player type that is destined for a bottom 6 role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Forge said: Yeah, that's my only real complaint on the offer. I think I'd want something just more appealing than Kamenev. Not even necessarily better lol. Like, Helleson, Bowers, several of their mid top 10 types who may never become anything at the nhl level are just flat out more appealing than Kamenev given waivers, rfa, age, etc. Kamenev could certainly get somewhere at some point (injuries haven't helped), but he's a two way player type that is destined for a bottom 6 role. I haven't been thrilled with Kamenev as a prospect whatsoever. Seen him with the Admirals here when he was a Preds prospect. Now, he's 23 and hasn't seen consistent NHL minutes nor AHL burn in a few seasons so I feel like he's either too far into his development already or it's stunted due to lack of consistent playing time. He's also only played 70 games total since 2017-2018. I just don't buy him as anything of value nor should an NHL GM. He's a reclamation project, not a trade asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 1 minute ago, beekay414 said: I haven't been thrilled with Kamenev as a prospect whatsoever. Seen him with the Admirals here when he was a Preds prospect. Now, he's 23 and hasn't seen consistent NHL minutes nor AHL burn in a few seasons so I feel like he's either too far into his development already or it's stunted due to lack of consistent playing time. He's also only played 70 games total since 2017-2018. I just don't buy him as anything of value nor should an NHL GM. He's a reclamation project, not a trade asset. The thing is, I really have no interest in Blake long term after this contract ends, which is where this becomes a problem. Getting a bottom 4 pairing LHD is just a damn fine hockey trade at this point in time, and Z is young enough to actually contribute to a rebuild, so he holds a lot of value for me, even if he's never going to be a top pairing quality type guy. Supposedly, teams are shopping hard for guys with term as opposed to guys that are rentals, which is why we are hearing so little of the rental market right now. But we are getting calls on Coleman and Palms, so definitely some interest. And there was still scuttle that we were looking for young guys that can contribute now. I find that a very interesting discussion with regards to trade value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Forge said: The thing is, I really have no interest in Blake long term after this contract ends, which is where this becomes a problem. Getting a bottom 4 pairing LHD is just a damn fine hockey trade at this point in time, and Z is young enough to actually contribute to a rebuild, so he holds a lot of value for me, even if he's never going to be a top pairing quality type guy. Supposedly, teams are shopping hard for guys with term as opposed to guys that are rentals, which is why we are hearing so little of the rental market right now. But we are getting calls on Coleman and Palms, so definitely some interest. And there was still scuttle that we were looking for young guys that can contribute now. I find that a very interesting discussion with regards to trade value. I get it, totally. My thing is, we can do better. Coleman has another year left and it's at a minuscule hit so that's gotta count for something. Colorado, in this scenario, can afford to upgrade Kamenev to Bowers without losing a bit of value. I think we could get Zadorov for much less than Coleman in the offseason, so this would kinda be doing Colorado a favor and that's not something I'm willing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) LIS, if its: 2020 1st Nikita Zadorov Shane Bowers Sampo Ranta I do it. I just have no value on Kamenev whatsoever. Hell, I'd be willing to take out Ranta if it got me Bowers. Edited February 14, 2020 by beekay414 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 1 minute ago, beekay414 said: I get it, totally. My thing is, we can do better. Coleman has another year left and it's at a minuscule hit so that's gotta count for something. Colorado, in this scenario, can afford to upgrade Kamenev to Bowers without losing a bit of value. I think we could get Zadorov for much less than Coleman in the offseason, so this would kinda be doing Colorado a favor and that's not something I'm willing to do. I actually agree with this big time. If they don't unload Z this trade season (which honestly, they may not want to do given they are in a cup run and he's a contributor), they are just going to have to unload him in the off season if they don't want to lose him for nothing. This would have been an ideal Shero trade, tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 Just now, Forge said: I actually agree with this big time. If they don't unload Z this trade season (which honestly, they may not want to do given they are in a cup run and he's a contributor), they are just going to have to unload him in the off season if they don't want to lose him for nothing. This would have been an ideal Shero trade, tbh. Yep. The situation on the blue line in Colorado kind of kills their leverage with Zadorov. That's why I'd need a much better prospect return than Kamenev and Ranta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Yep. The situation on the blue line in Colorado kind of kills their leverage with Zadorov. That's why I'd need a much better prospect return than Kamenev and Ranta. Supposedly we had a deal offered for Zajac, but he killed it. Wants to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Forge said: Supposedly we had a deal offered for Zajac, but he killed it. Wants to stay. Yeah, that's old news now. Is what it is. He's only got one more year at that cap hit so I'm alright with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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