Old Devils Thread (Lock 'er up please)

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

The problem they have pushed themselves into is that all of the guys they need to trade seriously have no trade clauses lol. Johnson / Gourde / Palat / Killorn, all have no trades. So theoretically, they could all push back and refuse to go. I don't think that will happen, but they have to brace for everything. If that is the case, they are in some trouble because he's not the only high level rfa they have (Cirelli is a free agent, as is Cernak). This wouldn't be the first time either; it wasn't that long ago that they had to trade Drouin coming off a 50+ point season out of his ELC when he was 21; that's how they got Sergachev lol. 

If the Arizona pick ends up in that 10/11 space, I'd certainly offer that straight up for him. I think that could honestly get it done as well. If they want something more immediate, i think it comes from Ty Smith. Someone mentioned Ty + Vancouvers pick if we got it this year (so they'd have to make the playoffs and the pick be 16 or higher...so really not all that great), and I'd think long and hard about that. I'd probably ask for TB's second back as well, but it's a fairly close deal, I think. 

Then I'd maybe take that second + the Islanders second + cap dump like Jake Allen (good to split time with Mac) from St louis for Dunn 

I want no part in trading Ty Smith. 

I also don't see why St. Louis would trade Dunn. 

I dunno. We project these types of trades all the time but the cap strapped teams always find a way out of their situations without losing anything of value (outside of 1st rounders to drop dead weight). Just look at how easily Boston got rid of Backes. All it took was a 1st and they even got back a valuable piece in that deal (Kase).

[Forge]

28 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

I want no part in trading Ty Smith. 

I also don't see why St. Louis would trade Dunn. 

I dunno. We project these types of trades all the time but the cap strapped teams always find a way out of their situations without losing anything of value (outside of 1st rounders to drop dead weight). Just look at how easily Boston got rid of Backes. All it took was a 1st and they even got back a valuable piece in that deal (Kase).

I would 100% trade him for Sergachev. One is already a 40 point NHL defenseman, the other couldn't make the team (looked quite dreadful tbh) in his draft +2 year. Sergachev is also only 18 months older. That's a no brainer to me. The only question is what the plus is from me in that situation. Smith is a complete unknown and Sergachev is lining up to be a top pairing defender, which is very difficult to find. I think Smith will like be a solid NHL defender, I think Serg is already that and could possibly be a top pairing type. 

St louis shouldn't trade Dunn, but seems like he could be on the market according to their fans. I don't quite understand it, but I'm starting to feel like he may be their version of Miles Wood? Their money issues aren't really worrisome. A lot of those guys can be dealt and at worst have modified no move clauses. They handled it slightly better than Tampa. They can create plenty of space to re-sign Pietrangelo.

These trades do happen. Sometimes for older quality players, sometimes for the good, young RFA. That's how Tampa got Sergachev in the first place. They had to trade Drouin because they couldn't afford him. Subban (regardless of how that worked out for us) was the same way if you look at the older vets (and there are numerous other examples).  They were making that deal regardless. Obviously Toronto unloaded a first to dump Marleau. We got Marjo, Palmieri both because their teams couldn't afford them (Palms is actually a little different, it was sort of a team inflicted cap and involved a weird roster thing involving tags), but that's certainly how we got Goose. Caps traded Burakovsky; Jordan Eberle to the Islanders, etc. I will agree that that they are seldom the 21 quality RAF like Sergachev is, but also not completely out of the question. 

If they have to trade one of their guys though, I think it would have to be Cirelli over Sergachev, though they could cash a lot of value on Sergachev. 

 

[beekay414]

12 minutes ago, Forge said:

I would 100% trade him for Sergachev. One is already a 40 point NHL defenseman, the other couldn't make the team (looked quite dreadful tbh) in his draft +2 year. Sergachev is also only 18 months older. That's a no brainer to me. The only question is what the plus is from me in that situation. Smith is a complete unknown and Sergachev is lining up to be a top pairing defender, which is very difficult to find. I think Smith will like be a solid NHL defender, I think Serg is already that and could possibly be a top pairing type.

You're also paying Sergachev far earlier than you would Smith. I'm not trading Smith and a 1st to a team that's cap strapped and then paying the guy $5-7 Million right away. We still have 3 years of Smith's ELC and Smith has a high upside as well. I still believe in Smith a ton regardless of how much the fan base may have soured on him. I'm also not putting a ton of stock in Sergachev's point totals on such an electric offensive team. I dunno. I like Sergachev enough to take a shot on him but I don't like him enough to trade Ty Smith. If I'm trading Ty Smith, he's part of a package for a proven top pairing guy, not a "could be" like Sergachev.

Also, just a correction but Sergachev is 21 months older than Smith, not 18 (March 2000 vs June 1998).

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

You're also paying Sergachev far earlier than you would Smith. I'm not trading Smith and a 1st to a team that's cap strapped and then paying the guy $5-7 Million right away. We still have 3 years of Smith's ELC and Smith has a high upside as well. I still believe in Smith a ton regardless of how much the fan base may have soured on him. I'm also not putting a ton of stock in Sergachev's point totals on such an electric offensive team. I dunno. I like Sergachev enough to take a shot on him but I don't like him enough to trade Ty Smith. If I'm trading Ty Smith, he's part of a package for a proven top pairing guy, not a "could be" like Sergachev.

Also, just a correction but Sergachev is 21 months older than Smith, not 18 (March 2000 vs June 1998).

I don't care about the money. Its largely irrelevant to the team as it currently stands. We aren't going to use all the space that we have as it is, just like we didn't this year. We were like 10 million below the cap. So that definitely doesn't bug me. 

I don't think anyone has soured too much on Smith, though I think a lot of the fans on HF were given a bit of a jolt when he didn't make the roster lol. I think a lot of people just look at it like they think Sergachev is better and they'd want to take the known quantity, especially with that known quantity having a sky high ceiling still (he was a top 10 pick, after all). Smith did win defenseman of the year again, but it's hard to say what that really means tbh; as a double over ager, I feel like he probably should have won it lol.  I think he's still going to be a quality player...assuming the Devils ever learn how to develop players. But I know Sergachev is, I don't need to think it.  So I just consider Serg an upgrade and the question for me is how big of an upgrade and how much should said upgrade cost. 

The concerns on his offensive game for an offensive juggernaut is fair. I mean, after all, Will Butcher had 44 points his first year with us and we damn sure weren't an offensive juggernaut. Adam Fox had 42 for the Rags this year. I do think that he's a quality, all around defender though. 

I would give up Arizona's pick in a heartbeat for him, even if it were #10. That's probably a straight up trade though.  I'd definitely give up Vancouver's. I'd give up Vancouvers first + other pieces as well, though I'm not sure what the other piece is. I don't think that they need Zacha. Reilly Walsh would actually make a ton of sense as they need an RD, but he'd have to be ready to play and be willing to sign. But I'd do Walsh + Vancouvers pick for him. For Smith it comes down to the add. I do think that Smith + 1st is a lot. I get why it's a lot, but it's a lot lol. 

[Forge]

Side note, you should have seen the conversation when it came out that the devils wanted to speak with Gronborg. It was wierd. Some people were stoked while others were freaking out lol. 

[beekay414]

5 minutes ago, Forge said:

I don't care about the money. Its largely irrelevant to the team as it currently stands. We aren't going to use all the space that we have as it is, just like we didn't this year. We were like 10 million below the cap. So that definitely doesn't bug me. 

I don't think anyone has soured too much on Smith, though I think a lot of the fans on HF were given a bit of a jolt when he didn't make the roster lol. I think a lot of people just look at it like they think Sergachev is better and they'd want to take the known quantity, especially with that known quantity having a sky high ceiling still (he was a top 10 pick, after all). Smith did win defenseman of the year again, but it's hard to say what that really means tbh; as a double over ager, I feel like he probably should have won it lol.  I think he's still going to be a quality player...assuming the Devils ever learn how to develop players. But I know Sergachev is, I don't need to think it.  So I just consider Serg an upgrade and the question for me is how big of an upgrade and how much should said upgrade cost. 

The concerns on his offensive game for an offensive juggernaut is fair. I mean, after all, Will Butcher had 44 points his first year with us and we damn sure weren't an offensive juggernaut. Adam Fox had 42 for the Rags this year. I do think that he's a quality, all around defender though. 

I would give up Arizona's pick in a heartbeat for him, even if it were #10. That's probably a straight up trade though.  I'd definitely give up Vancouver's. I'd give up Vancouvers first + other pieces as well, though I'm not sure what the other piece is. I don't think that they need Zacha. Reilly Walsh would actually make a ton of sense as they need an RD, but he'd have to be ready to play and be willing to sign. But I'd do Walsh + Vancouvers pick for him. For Smith it comes down to the add. I do think that Smith + 1st is a lot. I get why it's a lot, but it's a lot lol. 

I'm more than fine going after Sergachev, obviously, but I don't see the need to involve Smith in those talks. I'd try to use Vancouver's 2021 unprotected pick back to the Lightning for him plus other assets. Basically, anything other than Smith and our 1st is fair game. Maybe Tampa would value controllable depth and that pick? 

[beekay414]

4 minutes ago, Forge said:

Side note, you should have seen the conversation when it came out that the devils wanted to speak with Gronborg. It was wierd. Some people were stoked while others were freaking out lol. 

I really haven't been on HF at all lately. Those threads move relatively quick and half the time is filled with nonsense or the same stuff for the 100th time so I just choose to pass over them and go to the latest stuff. So, if I don't keep up daily, I get lost immediately lol.

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

I really haven't been on HF at all lately. Those threads move relatively quick and half the time is filled with nonsense or the same stuff for the 100th time so I just choose to pass over them and go to the latest stuff. So, if I don't keep up daily, I get lost immediately lol.

I'm in and out...I get super active sometimes...and then other times, I'm just like "oof...". That's when I get posts deleted and mod warnings saying leave the digs out of it (which, to be fair, wasn't a dig. I called him obtuse...and maybe hinted that he had just learned how to read so perhaps wasn't great at it yet. I stand by it)

Some of the the things that get said really make you need to take a break. That Swiss Prodigy guy for example was seriously trying to convince everyone that the lottery set up was a joke and we got hosed because the 8-15 teams that lose in the qualifying round have a better chance to win the lotto than we do because if they win the first lottery, there's only 7 other teams to compete with in the second lotto. 

[beekay414]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

I'm in and out...I get super active sometimes...and then other times, I'm just like "oof...". That's when I get posts deleted and mod warnings saying leave the digs out of it (which, to be fair, wasn't a dig. I called him obtuse...and maybe hinted that he had just learned how to read so perhaps wasn't great at it yet. I stand by it)

Some of the the things that get said really make you need to take a break. That Swiss Prodigy guy for example was seriously trying to convince everyone that the lottery set up was a joke and we got hosed because the 8-15 teams that lose in the qualifying round have a better chance to win the lotto than we do because if they win the first lottery, there's only 7 other teams to compete with in the second lotto. 

I was reading that lol. The internet never fails to be bad at math. I just laughed trying to figure out how 7.5% is worse than ~3%?

[beekay414]

Pronman's Top 122

1	Alexis Lafreniere	LW	Rimouski	QMJHL
2	Quinton Byfield	C	Sudbury	OHL
3	Tim Stutzle	LW	Mannheim	DEL
4	Lucas Raymond	LW	Frolunda	SHL
5	Cole Perfetti	C	Saginaw	OHL
6	Alexander Holtz	RW	Djurgarden	SHL
7	Jamie Drysdale	D	Erie	OHL
8	Yaroslav Askarov	G	SKA	VHL
9	Marco Rossi	C	Ottawa	OHL
10	Connor Zary	C	Kamloops	WHL
11	Dawson Mercer	C	Chicoutimi	QMJHL
12	Seth Jarvis	C	Portland	WHL
13	Jake Sanderson	D	USNTDP	USHL
14	Brendan Brisson	C	Chicago	USHL
15	Rodion Amirov	LW	Ufa	KHL
16	Anton Lundell	C	HIFK	Liiga
17	Jacob Perreault	RW	Sarnia	OHL
18	Mavrik Bourque	C	Shawinigan	QMJHL
19	Jeremie Poirier	D	Saint John	QMJHL
20	John-Jason Peterka	RW	Munich	DEL
21	Jack Quinn	RW	Ottawa	OHL
22	Dylan Holloway	C	Wisconsin	Big 10
23	Braden Schneider	D	Brandon	WHL
24	Hendrix Lapierre	C	Chicoutimi	QMJHL
25	Lukas Reichel	LW	Berlin	DEL
26	Sam Colangelo	RW	Chicago	USHL
27	Noel Gunler	RW	Lulea	SHL
28	Marat Khusnutdinov	C	SKA	MHL
29	Justin Barron	D	Halifax	QMJHL
30	Vasily Ponomarev	C	Shawinigan	QMJHL
31	Emil Andrae	D	HV71	J20SuperElit
32	Ozzy Wiesblatt	C	Prince Albert	WHL
33	Thomas Bordeleau	C	USNTDP	USHL
34	Kaiden Guhle	D	Prince Albert	WHL
35	Roni Hirvonen	C	Assat	Liiga
36	Topi Niemela	D	Karpat	Liiga
37	Ridly Greig	C	Brandon	WHL
38	Jake Neighbours	LW	Edmonton	WHL
39	Justin Sourdif	RW	Vancouver	WHL
40	Lukas Cormier	D	Charlottetown	QMJHL
41	Zion Nybeck	LW	HV71	SHL
42	Kasper Simontaival	RW	Tappara	Jr. A Liiga
43	Jan Mysak	C	Hamilton	OHL
44	Connor McClennon	RW	Winnipeg	WHL
45	Pavel Gogolev	LW	Guelph	OHL
46	Tyson Foerster	RW	Barrie	OHL
47	Egor Sokolov	LW	Cape Breton	QMJHL
48	Ty Smilanic	C	USNTDP	USHL
49	Jean-Luc Foudy	C	Windsor	OHL
50	Helge Grans	D	Malmo	SHL
51	Shakir Mukhamadullin	D	Ufa	KHL
52	Maxim Groshev	RW	Nizhnekamsk	KHL
53	Daniil Gushchin	LW	Muskegon	USHL
54	Alexander Pashin	RW	Ufa	MHL
55	Ryan Francis	RW	Cape Breton	QMJHL
56	Daemon Hunt	D	Moose Jaw	WHL
57	Donovan Sebrango	D	Kitchener	OHL
58	Will Cuylle	LW	Windsor	OHL
59	Yan Kuznetsov	D	Connecticut	H-East
60	Martin Chromiak	RW	Kingston	OHL
61	Joel Blomqvist	G	Karpat	Jr. A Liiga
62	Ryan O'Rourke	D	Sault Ste. Marie	OHL
63	Sean Farrell	C	Chicago	USHL
64	Pavel Novak	RW	Kelowna	WHL
65	Anton Johannesson	D	HV71	J20 SuperElit
66	Drew Commesso	G	USNTDP	USHL
67	Dylan Garand	G	Kamloops	WHL
68	Brandon Coe	RW	North Bay	OHL
69	Cross Hanas	LW	Portland	WHL
70	Daniil Gutik	LW	Yaroslavl	MHL
71	Roby Jarventie	LW	Koovee	Mestis
72	Joni Jurmo	D	Jokerit	Jr. A Liiga
73	William Wallinder	D	MODO	Allsvenskan
74	Tristen Robins	RW	Saskatoon	WHL
75	Antonio Stranges	LW	London	OHL
76	Maxim Berezkin	LW	Yaroslavl	MHL
77	Dylan Peterson	RW	USNTDP	USHL
78	Alexander Gordin	RW	SKA	MHL
79	William Villeneuve	D	Saint John	QMJHL
80	Brock Faber	D	USNTDP	USHL
81	Alexander Nikishin	D	Spartak	KHL
82	Tyler Tullio	RW	Oshawa	OHL
83	Luke Tuch	LW	USNTDP	USHL
84	Daniel Torgersson	LW	Frolunda	J20 SuperElit
85	Wyatt Kaiser	D	Andover	US High School
86	Theo Rochette	C	Quebec	QMJHL
87	Theodor Niederbach	C	Frolunda	J20 SuperElit
88	Senna Peeters	RW	Halifax	QMJHL
89	Kasper Puutio	D	Everett	WHL
90	Eamon Powell	D	USNTDP	USHL
91	Evan Vierling	C	Barrie	OHL
92	Jaromir Pytlik	C	Sault Ste. Marie	OHL
93	Emil Heineman	C	Leksands	SHL
94	Mitchell Miller	D	Tri-City	USHL
95	Brett Berard	LW	USNTDP	USHL
96	Amir Miftakhov	G	Kazan	VHL
97	Ivan Didkovskiy	RW	Dynamo Moscow	MHL
98	Adam Wilsby	D	Sodertalje	Allsvenskan
99	Evgeny Oksentyuk	LW	Flint	OHL
100	Ryder Rolston	RW	Waterloo	USHL
101	Bogdan Trineyev	RW	Dynamo Moscow	MHL
102	Luke Evangelista	RW	London	OHL
103	William Dufour	RW	Drummondville	QMJHL
104	Artur Akhtyamov	G	Kazan	MHL
105	Oskar Magnusson	LW	Malmo	J20 SuperElit
106	Carter Savoie	LW	Sherwood Park	AJHL
107	Alex Jefferies	LW	The Gunnery	US High School
108	Michael Benning	D	Sherwood Park	AJHL
109	Ian Moore	D	St. Mark's School	US High School
110	Joonas Oden	RW	KooKoo	Liiga
111	Jan Bednar	G	Karlovy Vary	Czech Extraliga
112	Oliver Suni	RW	Oshawa	OHL
113	Eemil Viro	D	TPS	Liiga
114	Nico Daws	G	Guelph	OHL
115	Dylan Jackson	RW	Dubuque	USHL
116	Veeti Miettinen	RW	Espoo	Jr. A Liiga
117	Blake Biondi	C	Hermantown	US High School
118	Yegor Chinakhov	RW	Omsk	MHL
119	Taylor Gauthier	G	Prince George	WHL
120	Vsevolod Skotnikov	G	CSKA	MHL
121	Calle Clang	G	Rogle	J20 SuperElit
122	Lassi Lehtinen	G	Lukko	Liiga

 

 

[beekay414]

Some notable omissions 

Carson Bantle | LW | Madison (USHL)
Alex Cotton | RHD | Lethbridge (WHL)
Jack Finley | C | Spokane (WHL)
Tyler Kleven | LHD | USNTDP (USHL)
Thimo Nickl | RHD | Drummondville (QMJHL)
Ronan Seeley | LHD | Everett (WHL)
Jack Thompson | RHD | Sudbury (OHL)
Zayde Wisdom | C | Kingston (OHL)

Edited May 28, 2020 by beekay414

[Canadian Saint]

I thought Rossi was far too low. Quinn is 10 spots too low. Glad Lundell is that low (I'm not sure I see the upside). Zary is too high. I understand rating Raymond that high. I'm not a huge believer in Sanderson. I think Mysak is too low. Big call on rating Gogolev that high after being passed over twice.

 

I thought Seeley is a big omission, thought he was one fo the better D-man in his own zone and very consistent.

[Forge]

12 hours ago, Canadian Saint said:

I thought Rossi was far too low. Quinn is 10 spots too low. Glad Lundell is that low (I'm not sure I see the upside). Zary is too high. I understand rating Raymond that high. I'm not a huge believer in Sanderson. I think Mysak is too low. Big call on rating Gogolev that high after being passed over twice.

 

I thought Seeley is a big omission, thought he was one fo the better D-man in his own zone and very consistent.

He's too high on Perfetti too. I don't understand having him so high given the skating problems. Looking over that list, that's one of the things I'm noticing - Pronman isn't docking as hard for skating as a lot of people do. The Zary ranking is another good indication of that, as is Perreault. If Zary were a good skater, that would be an absolutely legit ranking (that's not to say that having him at 10 as opposed to 17 is super crazy or anything, but yeah, probably higher than he should be). 

I'm surprised he's got Benning so low. I would 100% jump on that if he's there in the 4th round. 

Zion Nybeck is a big omission for me. I know that he's super tiny, and I'm assuming that is what he is getting docked for, but he's got skill and can play. 

[beekay414]

19 hours ago, Canadian Saint said:

I thought Seeley is a big omission, thought he was one fo the better D-man in his own zone and very consistent.

 

7 hours ago, Forge said:

Zion Nybeck is a big omission for me. I know that he's super tiny, and I'm assuming that is what he is getting docked for, but he's got skill and can play. 

Jack Finley is the biggest omission for me. I get that the NHL is going smaller and faster but Finley is a good skater for his size and is one of the better two way forwards in the draft. He's going to be a PK stalwart once he fills out his frame.  

Edited May 29, 2020 by beekay414

[beekay414]

7 hours ago, Forge said:

Pronman isn't docking as hard for skating as a lot of people do

If he's not docking for skating, there's literally no reason to not have Finley in the top 122. There's no way he's a 5th round prospect.