Old Devils Thread (Lock 'er up please)

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1 minute ago, beekay414 said:

Where's Bobby Margarita have him? That's all that matters.

He was 2 in a flash poll (which wasn't his actual rankings), but 5 at the midseason rankings. One of Bobby's Mac's people still had someone give Cooley a #1 vote over Wright in the flash poll (Slaf did get 2). My gut says that Slaf is #2 in the final rankings, but I'd be willing to wager that he has rankings ranging anywhere from like 1 to 6 when it happens. 

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8 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Keller's the definition of "meh" though. That's the point. You take Cooley because you know you're going to get an NHLer out of the pick but there's no upside. He's the type of prospect that goes significantly lower in redrafts.

Shoot the moon on Slafkovsky and don't look back. Not many 6'4" 220 skaters with soft hands and vision come around every day. You can find Logan Cooley in every draft.

Some people value that safety more than they value harder to reach upside. 

You could argue that may have been how we ended up with Holtz, to be honest. He certainly didn't have the highest ceiling at that spot, but for a lot of people he was a very safe pick. 

[beekay414]

3 minutes ago, Forge said:

He was 2 in a flash poll (which wasn't his actual rankings), but 5 at the midseason rankings. One of Bobby's Mac's people still had someone give Cooley a #1 vote over Wright in the flash poll (Slaf did get 2). My gut says that Slaf is #2 in the final rankings, but I'd be willing to wager that he has rankings ranging anywhere from like 1 to 6 when it happens. 

I'm willing to bet Slafkovsky is #2 in the final rankings. There's nothing to indicate he won't be.

 

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

Some people value that safety more than they value harder to reach upside. 

You could argue that may have been how we ended up with Holtz, to be honest. He certainly didn't have the highest ceiling at that spot, but for a lot of people he was a very safe pick. 

That was the 7th pick, not the 2nd. Major difference. If we were picking 7th and Cooley was there, by all means. 

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Slaf has answered huge questions since midseason so I'm really looking forward to some of these people updating their rankings. He looked good on a smaller rink, and there is probably not a forward in this draft class that is being leaned on as much as Slaf in international play. Hell, when it comes to forward and d-men, the only person who may have a case is Nemec, and he hasn't even always been out there running the power play. 

I'll be curious to see how people view his off the puck work and his passing. His vision is great...but man, he's a freaking gambler with some of these passes. 

[beekay414]

I honestly wanna know what the argument for Cooley or Slafkovsky is? I've yet to get any legitimate response to that question. What does Cooley do that makes him the 2nd pick over Slafkovsky and what does he offer that we can't already replicate? There's literally nothing special about Logan Cooley. Arseni Gritsyuk and Jesper Bratt, late day 2 picks, offer the same skillset that Cooley does. He's not rare. If anyone in the top 5-10 busts, my bet is on Logan Cooley.

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

Slaf has answered huge questions since midseason so I'm really looking forward to some of these people updating their rankings. He looked good on a smaller rink, and there is probably not a forward in this draft class that is being leaned on as much as Slaf in international play. Hell, when it comes to forward and d-men, the only person who may have a case is Nemec, and he hasn't even always been out there running the power play. 

I'll be curious to see how people view his off the puck work and his passing. His vision is great...but man, he's a freaking gambler with some of these passes. 

He's definitely proven he's more than his 27% shooting percentage or whatever it was in the olympics. He's not just a shooter at all. His skillset is pretty absurd for someone his size. He's a unicorn. Give him development time and you're looking at a superstar.

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20 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

I honestly wanna know what the argument for Cooley or Slafkovsky is? I've yet to get any legitimate response to that question. What does Cooley do that makes him the 2nd pick over Slafkovsky and what does he offer that we can't already replicate? There's literally nothing special about Logan Cooley. Arseni Gritsyuk and Jesper Bratt, late day 2 picks, offer the same skillset that Cooley does. He's not rare. If anyone in the top 5-10 busts, my bet is on Logan Cooley.

Pretty sure that he's an analytics darling so you know there's one set that will love him. 

High octane, two way player (who's just undersized) and puck control hog. Personally, I think his shot is overrated which is why I don't view him in the same spectrum as say Lucas Raymond. LIS earlier, when I watch him I see a lot of goals he's just not getting at the next level (unless he's on the power play).

One of the things that people love is that he's apparently generating high danger opportunities and searching out that ice. I think that's fair, but man, thats really hard to gauge how that particular thing will transition when you don't have the space that he gets right now.  

I think people are really, really turned off by the statistical production and shot production with Slaf.  Generally, I can overlook that. I think he got better as the season went on, and even throwing out the absurd shooting percentage and olympic outlier, he looks fine right now. He' playing with and against NHL players and looks good. 

Slaf is the right choice for us for a myriad of reasons. He's got the size we desperately need. He's great at puck protection and pushing off defenders which means he should help the cycle game a ton. We are already a fantastic transition team, we need to work on what happens when we are just set up in the zone. 

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

Pretty sure that he's an analytics darling so you know there's one set that will love him. 

High octane, two way player (who's just undersized) and puck control hog. Personally, I think his shot is overrated which is why I don't view him in the same spectrum as say Lucas Raymond. LIS earlier, when I watch him I see a lot of goals he's just not getting at the next level (unless he's on the power play).

One of the things that people love is that he's apparently generating high danger opportunities and searching out that ice. I think that's fair, but man, thats really hard to gauge how that particular thing will transition when you don't have the space that he gets right now.  

I think people are really, really turned off by the statistical production and shot production.  Generally, I can overlook that. I think he got better as the season went on, and even throwing out the absurd shooting percentage and olympic outlier, he looks fine right now. He' playing with and against NHL players and looks good. 

Slaf is the right choice for us for a myriad of reasons. He's got the size we desperately need. He's great at puck protection and pushing off defenders which means he should help the cycle game a ton. We are already a fantastic transition team, we need to work on what happens when we are just set up in the zone. 

My issue with Cooley is he's a boundary player and, like you basically said, his shot isn't the greatest. THW says his wrist shot is a plus but it looks crazy weak to me. His slapshot is non-existent and his puck control rarely cuts into the deep areas of the ice. I just don't see anything that we already don't have and can't find later. Thus the mentions of Gristyuk and Bratt.

Slafkovsky's the right pick because he's the right skillset that we lack and his talent is tantalizing. I'm willing to look past the production numbers in a men's league. They don't tell the entire story. You gotta watch the Olympics and the WC play to get an idea of who Slafkovsky can be. 

[beekay414]

I also don't really buy Cooley as a 2 way guy yet. He was like 2nd or 3rd on the USNTDP in penalty minutes.

[beekay414]

Utica lost tonight. Aaron Dell was the goalie for Rochester lol. They entered the 3rd with a 2-1 lead.

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There's a Wright v Slaf poll on HF prospect board. To me, this is Wright because I do think that he still has the upside of a PPG player and he's got a pretty safe floor. I think his poor season is way overblown due to a slow start. 

That said...amazing how many people who have responded have added that Slaf would go #5 (and yes, one person did say that they would take neither and would take Cooley instead LOL...that person is a Devils fan, I'm pretty sure) 

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1 minute ago, beekay414 said:

Utica lost tonight. Aaron Dell was the goalie for Rochester lol. They entered the 3rd with a 2-1 lead.

Pretty crazy given that they got everyone back for the playoff push. Utica low key was a pretty meh / average team in the AHL after that crazy start. 

Also, I'm kind of thinking that there's a chance that Holtz is in the AHL again next year. 

[beekay414]

5 minutes ago, Forge said:

Pretty crazy given that they got everyone back for the playoff push. Utica low key was a pretty meh / average team in the AHL after that crazy start. 

Also, I'm kind of thinking that there's a chance that Holtz is in the AHL again next year. 

Holtz is disappointing IMO. 

[beekay414]

I'm taking my Cooley slander to HF. Wish me luck.

[beekay414]

12 minutes ago, Forge said:

There's a Wright v Slaf poll on HF prospect board. To me, this is Wright because I do think that he still has the upside of a PPG player and he's got a pretty safe floor. I think his poor season is way overblown due to a slow start. 

That said...amazing how many people who have responded have added that Slaf would go #5 (and yes, one person did say that they would take neither and would take Cooley instead LOL...that person is a Devils fan, I'm pretty sure) 

Wright's the #1 pick but it just goes to show what Slafkovsky's upside is. I love Shane Wright and his floor is Nico Hischier but Slafkovsky's upside is immense. Otherwise, this would be a clear cut runaway. Obviously, in NHL scouting circles, it's going to be a runaway but fan perception is telling too. 

Anyone that voted Cooley #1 is a moron. I'll leave it at that.