Official NFL Draft Thread (General Discussion for Draft)

[warfelg]

Just now, FourThreeMafia said:

Burnett is injury prone and a short term solution.   Plus,  you need more than 2 safeties. 

Burnett, Davis, Burhe, Wilcox, Dangerfield, now Edmunds.

And later on there was guys like Reid, Harrison, Bates.

So we're going to lose someone out of that bunch, and IMO there was a bunch of similar guys to Edmunds we could have had if we wanted to wait.  Plus saying that doesn't really count as a counter IMO because of all the similar guys available.  Frankly IMO the team panicked when their pick came up after Evans was gone.

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Goedert is so overrated on here. 

I disagree.  Reminds me of a young Heath.

[Dcash4]

15 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Give me the 50/50 chance that I kept the window of a SB open for another 10-15 years as opposed to one last gasp.  Every time.  I don't want another Tomszack, ODonnell, Maddox era.

But the reality of the position and the reality of the situation in the NFL is that most likely...we will go through that sort of transition. There are not that many franchise changing QB's that come along, regardless of round picked and to pass up the opportunity to win NOW in a sport where the window can be shut faster than you can get it open is too big a risk for me in the HOPES that we made the right choice. 

11 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Yes and Yes.  Jackson was a guy I said needed a year to work on the throwing motion.  He's got that now.  Guice to me is this years David Johnson/Leveon Bell.  He needs a NFL training program to drop baby fat and get built.  He checks the boxes or size, power, catching, blocking.  Doesn't have breakaway speed but neither does Bell.  

And why does it have to be "next best thing"?  Both these guys have a high chance of being a game breaking player.

Then more power to you. I don't see it and maybe they didnt either. So I am much more comfortable with them NOT taking him if they ultimately do not view him as that guy. 

It has to be the next best thing at a position that is so replaceable. No you cannot easily replace guys like Bell or DJ so if that is who you think he is great. But again, the position itself has a ton of turnover for good reason. If you dont believe that the RB you are taking is going to be at the top of the league -- personally, I would never touch him in the first. Even if he is that great -- wear and tear can effect different players in a multitude of ways and that's a position meant to take punishment. If you take him, he sits this year and then we don't get to a second contract -- which is something that happens to that position quite often -- then we wasted that pick and didnt help the immediate super bowl window or extending the next one. That's not a stretch of the imagination, but rather something that has a very good chance of happening based on past experiences with the position. 

Again if you believe these guys are the ones -- so be it. But the reality of the NFL is harsh in finding that QB successor, so you need to fully believe in who you are taking if you have a current window of opportunity and needs other places. 

[3rivers]

33 minutes ago, Armsteeld2 said:

Personality, family stability, psychological and aptitude tests, physicals are all things that we are unaware of.  We base off what we see on tape and also the combine.  They have way more information to make more better decisions.  I disliked Sean Davis, Bud Dupree, and Jarvis Jones picks as soon as they happened.  Edmunds only flaws are being too aggressive on playsction and double moves which suggests he needs more film study or that he just is an aggressive guy.  I like the demeanor that he has which is a fiery, passionate yet controlled rage when he’s on the field.  If harnessed properly, you getting a superstar.

+1 on bold.  Jarvis did have a good NCAA career but when I read about possible medical concern and more important that he didn't like working out, it appeared a matter of time before he was out of the league.

about orange above,  our DB's coaching has been a problem from what I can tell. Be it scheme or lack of pass rush etc, pass the blame all you want, but in all that there is some blame to be shared by the DB coaches.  

[warfelg]

8 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

But the reality of the position and the reality of the situation in the NFL is that most likely...we will go through that sort of transition. There are not that many franchise changing QB's that come along, regardless of round picked and to pass up the opportunity to win NOW in a sport where the window can be shut faster than you can get it open is too big a risk for me in the HOPES that we made the right choice. 

Convince me Edmunds is a win now round 1 pick then.  You just keep telling me those guys aren't and you haven't made the case that Edmunds is.

[3rivers]

5 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Convince me Edmunds is a win now round 1 pick then.  You just keep telling me those guys aren't and you haven't made the case that Edmunds is.

win now RD1 picks for use is rare but at least is starting to be possible. I remember when we always redshirted RD1 picks, but at least now they get a chance.   I like the pick to possibly help the D, we need help across the D and I thought we would have considered other players/positions more:

1. ILB - Shazier injury , so this was a given. I thought we were going ILB

2. CB- they will try to make their roster work especially since burns was a RD1 pick so wait a few years

3. Edge - they are committed to making dupree RD1 pick work as well, so get used to it and wait a few years

 

 

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, 3rivers said:

win now RD1 picks for use is rare but at least is starting to be possible. I remember when we always redshirted RD1 picks, but at least now they get a chance.   I like the pick to possibly help the D, we need help across the D and I thought we would have considered other players/positions more:

1. ILB - Shazier injury , so this was a given. I thought we were going ILB

2. CB- they will try to make their roster work especially since burns was a RD1 pick so wait a few years

3. Edge - they are committed to making dupree RD1 pick work as well, so get used to it and wait a few years

 

 

That doesn't convince me of anything other than he might do something.

[43M]

29 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Burnett, Davis, Burhe, Wilcox, Dangerfield, now Edmunds.

And later on there was guys like Reid, Harrison, Bates.

So we're going to lose someone out of that bunch, and IMO there was a bunch of similar guys to Edmunds we could have had if we wanted to wait.  Plus saying that doesn't really count as a counter IMO because of all the similar guys available.  Frankly IMO the team panicked when their pick came up after Evans was gone.

I love how Steeler fans constantly claim that the team panicked whenever a pic is made they don't like. It would be one thing if you had actual evidence that that was the case... But you don't. If you don't like the pick I respect that... But leave it at that instead of making unsubstantiated claims. And that's not just directed at you, but all the Steeler fans going off the deep end about a pick they didn't like.

[43M]

20 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Convince me Edmunds is a win now round 1 pick then.  You just keep telling me those guys aren't and you haven't made the case that Edmunds is.

Edmunds has a terrific chance of playing a lot in sub-packages, while some of the other guys you mentioned would be 3rd stringers on offense as rookies and wouldn't see the field much outside of injuries and occasional reps.

[Dcash4]

1 minute ago, warfelg said:

Convince me Edmunds is a win now round 1 pick then.  You just keep telling me those guys aren't and you haven't made the case that Edmunds is.

To start....we can use him.  I can't use a back up QB, who would most likely be third string if a Ben injury happened. I cannot use a RB if Bell is the bell cow. Telling you those guys are NOT win now is super simple. They are not, seeing as they wont play on the roster as its currently constructed. Hell, Edmunds wins that by default. I mean if you are really asking me Win now mode of Edmunds Vs a QB and a RB? Just by playing ST he is more useful in year 1. 

He CAN potentially fill the absolute, hands down, biggest hole on our roster -- a guy who can cover sideline to sideline in the middle of the field. Whether its him in that position, or Burnett comfortably there with Edmunds filling the back end role, that is something we did not currently have on the roster and its something that we may have now out of sub packages in an age where you live in sub packages. 

I have said it before, but a ILB that can move was our biggest need. There did not seem like a lot of guys that could plug and be an upgrade there, especially after Evans and LVE were gone (who I still had great questions about). Maybe they thought outside the box on how to fix that problem. They brought in Burnett who is terrific in that TYPE of role. Edmunds is a guy who can fit that mold as well, and be the future of the position in a larger scale. We love big Nickle. Its pretty simple to see the correlation between the guys on the roster, the amount of time spent in sub packages, the skill sets that the guys have at the safety position, and the biggest need defensively fitting into place. 

These are things that i think REGARDLESS OF PLAYER. I am not trying to convince anyone who doesn't like Edmunds that he, as a player, was the correct pick. But he does fit a mold that can immediately help this team be better in their largest area of weakness. You can argue the schematics of the specific player by name and pundits draft thoughts, but his position and the flexibility of who the three Safeties will be CAN put is in a better spot now post Shazier. This is what the team needed and I think this may be the outside of the box way of finding its solution. 

If you want to tell me you dont like the player, fine. But do not tell me that the thought process cannot be useful to win now and that the potential cannot be impact in the future. We live in sub packages. You can make the argument that this TYPE of player will be used far more than a backup OLB, a run stuffing NT, a 3rd WR, a vert stretching TE, a future QB, or a 3rd RB...and you can make the argument that it wont. But by my estimation, they believe they took the best player with the best possible fit to help us immediately with a high enough ceiling to justify the future. 

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, Dcash4 said:

To start....we can use him.  I can't use a back up QB, who would most likely be third string if a Ben injury happened. I cannot use a RB if Bell is the bell cow. Telling you those guys are NOT win now is super simple. They are not, seeing as they wont play on the roster as its currently constructed. Hell, Edmunds wins that by default. I mean if you are really asking me Win now mode of Edmunds Vs a QB and a RB? Just by playing ST he is more useful in year 1. 

He CAN potentially fill the absolute, hands down, biggest hole on our roster -- a guy who can cover sideline to sideline in the middle of the field. Whether its him in that position, or Burnett comfortably there with Edmunds filling the back end role, that is something we did not currently have on the roster and its something that we may have now out of sub packages in an age where you live in sub packages. 

I have said it before, but a ILB that can move was our biggest need. There did not seem like a lot of guys that could plug and be an upgrade there, especially after Evans and LVE were gone (who I still had great questions about). Maybe they thought outside the box on how to fix that problem. They brought in Burnett who is terrific in that TYPE of role. Edmunds is a guy who can fit that mold as well, and be the future of the position in a larger scale. We love big Nickle. Its pretty simple to see the correlation between the guys on the roster, the amount of time spent in sub packages, the skill sets that the guys have at the safety position, and the biggest need defensively fitting into place. 

These are things that i think REGARDLESS OF PLAYER. I am not trying to convince anyone who doesn't like Edmunds that he, as a player, was the correct pick. But he does fit a mold that can immediately help this team be better in their largest area of weakness. You can argue the schematics of the specific player by name and pundits draft thoughts, but his position and the flexibility of who the three Safeties will be CAN put is in a better spot now post Shazier. This is what the team needed and I think this may be the outside of the box way of finding its solution. 

If you want to tell me you dont like the player, fine. But do not tell me that the thought process cannot be useful to win now and that the potential cannot be impact in the future. We live in sub packages. You can make the argument that this TYPE of player will be used far more than a backup OLB, a run stuffing NT, a 3rd WR, a vert stretching TE, a future QB, or a 3rd RB...and you can make the argument that it wont. But by my estimation, they believe they took the best player with the best possible fit to help us immediately with a high enough ceiling to justify the future. 

I stopped after line one because you right away made the discussion about something else. I believe that if I can’t get a win now guy I look at what keeps the window open the longest and you are ignoring that by only talking about 2018 

[warfelg]

4 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Edmunds has a terrific chance of playing a lot in sub-packages, while some of the other guys you mentioned would be 3rd stringers on offense as rookies and wouldn't see the field much outside of injuries and occasional reps.

And that’s fair enough, but like I’ve said I think the next window that could have been opened and maintained from Jackson is better than the small help we would get from Edmunds now. 

 

Trust me I’m for the team going win now mode....but this didn’t feel like that at all. It feels like a “I think he can help, we’ll see” move. 

[Dcash4]

Just now, warfelg said:

I stopped after line one because you right away made the discussion about something else. I believe that if I can’t get a win now guy I look at what keeps the window open the longest and you are ignoring that by only talking about 2018 

Dude - this is literally your quote: "Convince me Edmunds is a win now round 1 pick then.  You just keep telling me THOSE GUYS aren't and you haven't made the case that Edmunds is.". Those guys from what you quoted me -- were Jackson and Guice. Not too sure how in the world I made it about something different...

So to summarize -- you literally asked me to tell you why Edmunds was more of a WIN NOW pick than Jackson and Guice... And then discount everything else I wrote....because I answered your question. 

Cool. 

[warfelg]

I’m not convinced that Edmunds will do enough to help us year one to put us over the top, and I’m not convinced that he will have a better career than some guys that were picked behind him and still available. Therefore I’m hard pressed to understand why he’s going to be that important that fast. 

[Armsteeld2]

39 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

+1 on bold.  Jarvis did have a good NCAA career but when I read about possible medical concern and more important that he didn't like working out, it appeared a matter of time before he was out of the league.

about orange above,  our DB's coaching has been a problem from what I can tell. Be it scheme or lack of pass rush etc, pass the blame all you want, but in all that there is some blame to be shared by the DB coaches.  

We have a new DB coach.