Mind Character

this defense is on its last leg. Did richardson dress?

Going to the Pats. And is going to be a monster.

Legit asking. Are there anymore pathways for us to get in or have we been mathmatically eliminated based on stuff yesterday?

Early boo birds on Tretter penalty means the crowd is ready to turn on Freddie and this team if it gets at all ugly. We need to stay in it as long as possible or it could get to Fire Freddie level chants.. Indeed, this coaching staff is fighting for its life and it's their Super Bowl.

I think we'd all agree that if we'd struggled consistently all year and won 3 games total it would be okay to fire Freddie after 1 year. Ultimately, I guess the question becomes where/what is threshold for it being okay to fire a coach after 1 year given this roster? 5 games with consistent not showing up and consistent struggles? 6? I think we're in that gray area for a lot of people where 7 wins while looking like we have justifies keeping him another year while 6 games means he's gone. I think a lot of coaches and execs had a hard time understanding why Chudzinski-types got the boot after 1 year, but that sentiment is not the case now as the league seems to get why Freddie needs to be fired as many view it (right or wrong) as brought on by his own incompetence. Back when we hired Pettine. This job was not attractive because of the owners and the talent. I think we are beyond that now after the league witnessed us stay with Hue and now we have the talent to lure people, but I do think it's a legit worry that we can't get back into a cycle that makes coaches want to stay away from us. There are coaches chomping at the bit to coach the likes of Myles, Chubb, Hunt, Jarvis, Baker, OBJ, Bitonio, Tretter, Ward, Greedy, Richardson, Vernon, etc. We can't lose sight at the fact that this is a desirable roster to work with because coaches have egos and believe that they can maximize talent. It would however mean that whoever the next coach is... we'd have to ride with them for a while.

?? Huh. Who said we'd have to cut 2 all pros? And who are these 2 all-pros? (Myles and??). The panthers ran a 43 defense for 6 out of 11 of Rivera's years. He played and made his bones in the 43 and 46 defense. He switched to the 34 when he went to the Chargers. So, he's multiple. McDaniels hired Eberflus for the Colts job and Eberflus now runs a 43 defense. Hiring Mcdaniels wouldn't necessarily mean running a 34. Why would Rivera or Josh McDaniels need running QBs? Rivera's a defensive coach. Mcdaniels loves Baker and doesn't prefer running QBs. There are many reasons as to why Rivera or McDaniels would not be good hires, but none of the two points you've made are included in those reasons.

Would we have been willing to give Hue 2.5 years with this talent though? I say absolutely not. Building a house on a cracked and faulty foundation for the sake of not restarting the build isn't a good justification as plowing ahead in a build is going to lead to issues down the line anyway. I think there's nothing wrong at all with both of you hoping that Freddie will be better in the future, and I certainly think that have learned a lot of lessons in their 1st years to help them improve in their 2nd year. BUT I when a team has talent you can't afford to wait and see especially if that talent doesn't buy in to that coach and consistently performs as poorly as we do. I think things would be completely different if we saw more ups than downs in games or if even we had the same record but we looked better. This season has seen this team looked unprepared from the beginning to the latter parts of the season. Ultimately, to me that may be a sign of a fatal flaw and one that can't be grown from in year 2 as it would speak to a fatal issue or inability involved with Freddie's program. It doesn't really matter what any of us think because he's guaranteed to be coming back at this point.

Lol, though your partly right, no I originally read that second part of your comment where you said "if we split it will depend on how we look," but I'm curious as to why a person (you and many others) feel as though 2 more games of data are make or break for Freddie as opposed to already having the diagnostic data through 14 games to decide about him and/or his program. It just seems to me at least that given the high probability of winning against a bad Bengals team, putting the entirety of the hire/fire decision on 1 extra game of data against the Ravens may ignore the tried and true lessons/data presented by Freddie for 14 games. We've seen coaches win games at the end of the season with their a** on the line before in this league, but I'm not sure even given the quality of the Ravens team that a win against them should change one's perspective on whether Freddie should be hired or fired or on whether or not Freddie will or won't lead a winning program for the Browns in the future. I think we've seen enough to this point to decide whether or not we should keep Freddie or not, but that's just my opinion. I do however think that if the people that waiting on the last 2 game results to decide likely are reluctant to fire Freddie in the first place and are ultimately searching for something to legitimize he belief that he should not be fired.

I'd have to disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that Cam and McDermott carried Rivera. Rivera early on was like Andy Reid in that though he had a Defensive Coordinator in name on the staff, he actually called the plays and lead the meetings not his coordinator. It wasn't until later on that play-calling duties were passed on to McDermott and then to Wilks subsequently. Without McDermott their Defense actually achieved even higher heights under Rivera-Wilks in 2017 finishing 5th in rush DVOA; 11th in pass DVOA; and 7th in overall defense DVOA Efficiency compared to 9th the previous year. McDermott is one heck of a coach and the one I wish we had; there's no doubt he was a major positive force for Rivera and the panthers but a lot of his defensive innovations are directly from the Rivera hybrid 46 and 43 looks in his defensive arsenal. In 2018, Cam was hurt and their team experienced a lot of roster turnover with players getting older or leaving for other reasons (Thomas Davis, etc). In 2019, Cam's been hurt and they started an UDFA rookie named Kyle Allen the whole year. The team battled consistently all year, but fell flat on its face in other spots. To say it was Cam and McDermott carrying Rivera ignores that Rivera actually called the plays and was the lead organizer of the defensive meetings a la Andy Reid during McDermott's tenure AND that Rivera successfully navigated that team through media scandal and/or major distractions via the owner, players (Greg Hardy), and the GM. He also knows how to motivate and work with Super star players having been a former player on the Buddy Ryan Bears. Rivera is not the perfect solution or perfect coach, but he's a strong candidate that deserves consideration because of his program/culture leadership and edge .... and certainly deserves consideration over the likes of Mike McCarthy.

Scout the player not the school. Every Bama/OSU player has unique high-level program experiences that give them additional insight/training to succeed at the next level, but that doesn't mean every Bama player will be good or great. It's the same with coaches. I'm not of the Hire a Bill-disciple for the hiring sakes, but there's reasons to think McDaniels COULD be a good HC this time around because of his advanced offensive flexibility and philosophy fit with our personnel, IF he's learned lessons and/or been humbled by his first Head Coaching experience, IF he can take the winning program lessons from Bill and make them his own, and if he can hire the right coaching staff. Also, a lot of the Pats former coaches struggled because of the situations they were thrust into (i.e., the Browns) and experienced the same fate as coaches put in other losing organization positions. A lot of people are down on Patricia and he had a rocky first year, but he much like Flores has gotten his players to play above their heads and beyond injury and battle all year. Nick Saban, Pat Hill, Kirk Ferentz, Mike Vrabel, and Bill O'brien (I don't know why people think he sucks so bad.. you have to look beyond buzz names like Wat and Clowney to see what those rosters were really like). Matt Patricia and Brian Flores look promising. Crennel, Al Groh, Weiss, Mangini didn't do it. McDaniels had success with Tim freakin Tebow and then he fizzled out so he's TBD. Ultimately, IDGAF if they are from the BB coaching tree or not, but I think McDaniels given the coaches on the market is a worthwhile consideration amongst some of the other coaches that should be considered first.

So, whether or not we should keep Freddie comes down to beating a contending team and a trash team in consecutively? The latter game is irrelevant as a win tells me nothing. Another Ravens win would mean something. This game is the coaching staff's Super Bowl and the most important one in their coaching careers. A win may just tell us that survival kicked in and they came up with winning solutions at the same time our players like Baker, OBJ, Jarvis, etc have their back against the wall. I don't know if a win against the Ravens really tells us anything about the quality of Freddie's program and/or the quality of his program going forward. I think we have enough data.

Hurts is my later/mid-round guy as well. Nice draft. I fear that Wills, Thomas, and Jackson will all be gone be 13 leaving only the next tier of Tega-Wanogho, Leatherwood, Jones, and Steele. We'll likely have to trade up some to get Wills or one of the first tiers. I'd rather have AJ Epenesa than the 2nd tiers OTs at 13. Biadasz is the king of all centers but too squatty and alligator armed to be a highly successful guard imo. He's a monster though for sure. Swap out Biadasz for Shane Lemieux or Netane Muti (probably via trade up depending on where we slot in the draft order). Willekes and Bassey (regressed this year) imo would never be impact starters and/or high quality rotational 2s so we'd be better off taking a swing on players with more juice and ability.

This. He's the true definition of JAG and would be a nice rah rah guy with no impact akin to just pissing the 3rd rounder down the drain. In the 3rd, it's still possible to take some swings on guys that might not be ready right away but can actually be a real force down the line in year 2.

This Ravens game is everything to Freddie as right now he doesn't know for sure whether or not he has a job next year or not. He knows that we have to perform above expectation in this game. This is his Super Bowl. Baker has a lot on the line too as do Jarvis and Odell with the latter 2 having their commitment to team and the game questioned. Last week was the most embarrassing loss of the season. Steve Wilks and our coaches know that this game is for all the marbles. With the slim possibility of still getting in, against a good team, in a game when everyone expects us to be beat soundly... this is the game where we have to step up. I expect us to perform very well and for it to be our best game of the season. As a result, it will be the rationalization game in fans minds for keeping Freddie. Nigh.

Good Question. For me, it's 4 Things as to why I don't want MM: 1.) MM is a rigid and non-creative play-caller who is unwilling to give up play-calling duties (" I'll never give up play-calling again ") and surrounds himself with Offensive assistants that don't innovate or adapt well to changing defensive and offensive landscapes. 2.) He has been one of the worst OCs in the utilization of pace and the play-action game and mostly relies on basic route combos out of 11 or 22 personnel looks. 3.) See the previous point but here's an extension: McCarthy as a play-caller does not use a scheme that benefits Baker Mayfield or our personnel. He also is not a play-caller that prioritizes his QB being under center which is important specifically for Baker Mayfield and our passing attack to stay in sync because being under center helps negate the time it takes to get to drop depth because of Baker's punch drop footwork, allows us to set up play-action explosive plays, and builds flow between running and passing game by helping them look similar in their formation presentation to defenses. Passing attacks are very different from one another in the league and McCarthy hasn't show the ability to adapt in ways that will help us. 4.) His qualities as a General Program/Culture Leader are very solid, but at this point in his career he's only interested in hiring retread assistant coaches who often are not able to be creative or responsive to where the game is now. I have no confidence in his ability to put together a great coaching staff that compliments our team's strengths. It's been reported that McCarthy's next staff will include the following: Jim Haslett, Defensive Coordinator, Scott Mccurley, Linebackers/Defensive Assitant, Frank Cignetti Jr, QB Coach/Offensive Assistant. Those principle staffers with Mike McCarthy as OC/HC and let's assume James Campen still as OLine Coach don't do it for me as a coaching staff that will create a real force. Ultimately, it's not about making a change for change sake, but making one in order to get to that place we've all dreamed about or at least compete to get there. MM would be an upgrade over Freddie imo, but not one to make us a consistent competitor. Now, if for example, we could pair McCarthy with a few Offensive Coordinator and Quality Control guys that are expert at pace, play-action, under-center, occasional RPO quick strike and RB passing game, then I'd be down for MM. Without that, I'm not interested as McCarthy will have an offense that stalls out much like ours currently imo.

John Dorsey is an elite level scout with blind-spots at certain positions like Offensive LIne, as well as Character Concerns. He is not optimized to scout and organize a Coaching Search. Oddly enough, the Haslams' search firm reliance has produced a good candidate pool at times when candidates didn't see the Browns job as favorable. This time (assuming we fire Freddie which we probably won't) somehow we need the best of what both offer (search firm and Dorsey). I'm going to be pissed when Dorsey hones in on McCarthy. It will tell me that Dorsey is far more a political animal than I ever thought as he'd go that way to protect his power.

The Head Coach is the Culture. I'm against hiring the hottest name coordinator or an experience head coach if they do not apparently have the qualifications to be a high, next level culture builder. Ultimately, what I want is a high-level teacher, thinker, leader, culture-builder, winning habits habits program-trainer, visionary, energy-giver head coach that thrives under adversity and can command respect from players. The ability to hire a good-great OC, DC, and QB coach is also vitally important. As is the ability to hire and build a high level coaching staff that caters to our player strengths. I'm not sure who that person is right now as I don't have the knowledge regarding which potential candidates but the Haslams have the resources to search high and low for an individual with such qualifications. Resources, coaching search firms, and/ that identified Sean McDermott as a leading Head Coach candidate. Dorsey and the Haslam's have to work together to identify the best candidate with external resources helping Dorsey this time around more than last time. I'd start with Ron Rivera, Josh Mcdaniels, Jim Caldwell, and go from there. For OC, I'd start with Mike McDaniel and Mike LaFleur and go from there.

Ah.... i see.. hard to tell just reading ... Let the good times roll....

Indeed, TD/INT ratio's more important than yardage as an indicator of QB success. To me, big time throws, 3rd down, redzone, rating against the blitz, rating in a clean pocket, 4th quarter rating, and a ton of others are so much more important than Yards.

No to McCarthy .... We need to go for it..

Huh? Mahomes didn't start his 1st year. Baker did. So, the way to equate their careers is to do a 1 to 1 comparison of their starts. If we 1 to 1 their starts, Baker has started 27 games . Through 27 starts Baker has 6,880 yards passing Through Patrick Mahomes' first 27 started games, he had 8,189 yards passing. So, that means at the same point in their careers Patrick Mahomes threw for 1,309 more yards. Not that yardage or whatever means anything at all; it's just saying Baker had more yards isn't accurate.

In this case, I actually think they couldn't block it because it would be a promotion. Mike McDaniel's official capacity is "Running Game Coordinator" ..and Mike LaFleur's official capacity is "Passing Game Coordinator" So, as long as Kyle doesn't offer one of them an OC job at the end of the Season he couldn't officially block it. He blocked LaFleur last year from joining brother in Green Bay because he was Wide-Receiver's Coach/Pass Game Coordinator and shared the pass coordination title with someone else. So, it was a promotion to be named full time pass game coordinator. Eventually these guys are going to get a chance to go out on their own and after prolonged playoff run they'll probably get their chance.