Mind Character

the worst... lol

It's football man... after longer drive, high time of possession with a roster that is limited in depth ... drives like that last one happen because defense is tired and has been on the field... we have a ton of problems right now

Defense wore down that drive... been on the field the entire day...

Can you imagine us not getting that free pick 6 from the illustrious Dalton... might've taken the heart out of this front running team... probably would be over... That pick will keep us in striking distance to win... it's the bengals... Browns will still win by 15 at least

Ryan Lindley has to be gone... problem is he's risen to the primary assistant play-caller on game-days over Monken and Campen... The mostly always attributable reason for a naturally accurate QB regresses this much is due to routines and habits coaching by QB coach. Good QB coaches affect positive change in a QBs mechanics and basic throwing through the course of 12 games. Lindley has not.

Let me have my fun you bastard... I don't bother you while you fap relentlessly to the "Brown and Orange" video.. Now do I judge? That's a different story...

that pick 6 just saved Freddie's job.. Freddie truthers assemble.. hail your king...

keeping it a fumble zero sense at all... trash

Moped

Great video to link; I saw this when it dropped and it changed my entire outlook on Baker's future for the positive based on some follow-up conversations I had with friends about it. It's really quite remarkable how clear it is to accurately analyze what Baker's skillset is and isn't making it ridiculously frustrating to repeatedly watch the play-calls and design not favor Baker's or the OLine's strengths. It's puzzling. Kollman says it the best when he says "late feet equal late eyes which equals late throws." Funniest thing is one of my old college roommates who played in the CFL and now works for a sports analytics firm has been hammering that "Baker's punch drop is going to be the end of him unless he switches it up" since the very beginning of his rookie year. My focus has mostly been on other aspects of his mechanics. lol. It's crazy how much slower his mechanical operation is to get to his drop depth as well as how deep his drop depth is often kills OL blocking angles on the edge. After I sent this video to my old roommate, he sent me back a jaw-dropping statistic that he and his co-workers have been working all year on to provide a new timing metric to sell to the NFL Next Gen Stat Directors. It's likely going to be a for pay stats package like PFF but one component is drop depth time. He sent me this:" The Data represents a 9 game sample size this season. Compared to the top 12 QBR QBs, Baker Mayfield's Average Drop Time to Drop Depth is 0.687 seconds longer on average for 3 step drops relative to the field, 0.704 seconds longer on average for 3.5 step drops (slight start/end hitch) relative to the field, and 1.422 seconds longer on average for 5 step drops or more relative to the field." In a word or two: F-IN Mind Blowing statistic. And it honestly it gives me so much hope for Baker's future. Because unlike what Kollman suggested, I actually think can change his drop mechanics without it screwing him up and that he can change to a staggered quick drop without a punch step like Tom Brady or at least a quick punch quick shuffle drop like Drew Brees. It means that if Baker can cut his drop depth time to closer to the top 12 QBs his eyes, vision, and timing could allow him to take the next step. Play-action and working from under center literally saves it all. It magically fixes everything. We've all been saying that as amateur football analyst and analytics enthusiasts. From under center, Baker is further up in the pocket when he hits is drop depth protect the outside rush angles and neutralizing gap penetrating DLineman that don't shoot gaps because of the treat of the run. In the end, Baker has space to work and let his talent shine. His eyes and footwork are forced to be on time because of the rhythm of play-action. The play-action and really under-center numbers are insanely different from that shotgun 3-wide garbage Freddie's been going to all year. Coming out of college, tons of people thought Baker needed to operate out of shotgun exclusively to have success. Turns out the truth is just the opposite. Right now, Play-action is the quick fix until Baker can make the mechanical adjustments; it's the schematic fix. Kollman said it best again "Play action caters to Baker's psychology regarding how he responds to the threat of pressure" and it creates the rhythm and timing element that's lacking our cold shotgun attack. Ultimately, there's a path forward to success. Freddie needs to recreate his attack to focus on creativity from under center that heavily relies on play-action, RT/RG and to a lesser extent LT need upgrading, Baker needs to quicken his drop mechanical operation and/or get rid of his methodical punch step, and Baker and the skill players need to invest elite level work in developing chemistry and understanding. There's hope. It's not broken to the point where there's no way forward. Can they do it? Sh*t .. I really really F-in hope so. There's never been a bigger off-season moment in recent Browns history. It's time to rise to the occasion. tbh sounds exactly like the Bruce Arians and Todd Haley play-book. So, it probably more accurate to say sounds like TB this year. Monken with TB was more about the quick passing game as a consistent jab at a defense followed by explosive hay-maker deep strike down the field shots. Their 9th in DVOA OE was all based on having the 24th ranked Running Game based on DVOA Run Offensive Efficiency. Monken himself lamented about their inability to run last year. If our offense was like TBs last year, this year would've been a fun ride imo

I just want 2 weeks of back to back high level play.. I don't care who it's against at this point.. I just want to believe ... .. just want to watch this team in consecutive weeks and honestly think to myself, "this team is going to make deep runs in the playoffs sometime soon in the future." Is that too much to ask..

Got it. Didn't know. Good times.

Mind Character -OR- Mind Character. There used to be 2 but now there's 1. I'm definitely not google and amazon's internet Frankenstein. We all know what douchebags get all up in... ya feel me... I used to be livin the doosh dream...what a atime... Thesauruses were saved from extinction by the Derp-derps during the Derpiolithic era.

I remember so many of those names and random one's back when I was a constant visitor of the FF mock draft and rankings but just an occasional forum lurker for almost a decade. I remember random one's like SmithToTeddy, GermaineRace, ACDC but I can't remember any of the posts. I still can't believe I've been reading posts on this site since 2007 when I was a teenager with a morning glory that pointed straight to the moon. Now, my back, knees and, pride hurt when I wake up. Those were good times. The Joe Thomas and Brady Quinn draft threads were epic. The super bowl hopes renewed. BTC wait... were you Miamicanes46?

1.) 1 playoff series wouldn't seal the deal for what Lamar is quite yet though and Lamar is already exponentially a better player than Kordell Stewart. 2.) Brees and Brady at this point in there careers cannot transcend whatever is around them.and are more elite among trailer players. That is, as long as there's good to great things around them they can operate at a high level. I never said Kyler Murray was better than Drew Brees but as is Murray has transcendent abilities to overcome surrounding talent deficiencies and terrible OLine play they're done.I definitely can see the argument for Brees still being a Tractor/Transcendent player, but Brady looks like more of a great/elite Trailer player.this year via his play. Boxscore stats don't matter all that much over play quality but even still Rodgers has 22TDs: 2 INTs and more yards: Mahomes 20TDs: 2INTS also has more than Baker in fewer games in fewer games. Big Ben is still a great QB but I didn't have him on the Tractor/Transcendent list in the first place.

... but the OLine ... but you can't just force it he's covered .. but the defense is taking him away ... but he might drop the ball like earlier in the season F-that noise... I'm putting OBJ on 3 vertical routes in the 1st half of each game ... and making him prove to me that throwing it to him is a bad idea by throwing it to him... We don't even try ... when he's covered he's not always covered... rotating safety or not we have to let him show us magic moments...

I think you're probably right. That's likely the case as even he's stated he thought things would be easier. If so, then he likely never will truly be great or elite as the elite athletes are never satisfied and are constantly seeking the next level beyond... often chasing perfect or next level mastery of their craft. If MJ or Lebron would've decided not to put in effort in their crafts and conditioning after enjoying early success, then they never would've achieved the levels of greatness they went on to achieve. It's why players like DeShaun Watson used his own money on trainers, positional specialists, therapists, housing, and flights to work relentlessly with his receivers and skill position players this past off-season so that he would put himself in the position with his team to take the next step. On the weekends he flew the guys to Atlanta for celebration and relaxation then it was back to the grind. I have no doubt Watson will do so again. Drew Brees is insane in the off-season as well. If Baker was putting in that type of work, trust me we'd hear about via a documentary series for his brand. The best minds and most relentless competitors are at this level of football. His talent took him as far as it was going to take him. Only his work and next level sacrifice will get him to the next level. Hopefully, it starts with his willingness to hire an elite QB trainer and coach this off-season; one that could help him work through graduate-level defensive scheme reading and manipulation. Elements of mechanical work plus chemistry work with the skill players. Without such things, Baker won't be ever be elite. For all the talk pre-draft about how much of a next-level competitor he is and how hard he worked as a walk-on, he's got his butt kicked this season. Hopefully it ignites the competitive fire within and fuels him to greatness. We need it... desperately.

If the offensive line is struggling (and they have a lot this year), he can transcend the issues with blitz avoidance and making plays off platform. If his WRs aren't getting separation or having route issues, he can create time and extend plays. If the RB running game isn't working, he can manufactures his own effective running attack. If the Defense is struggling, his moving the chains conversion rate and methodical drives keeps the opposing offense off the field and tilts time of possession in favor of the ravens. Look at how his teammates talk about him and are amazed by him; look at how they believe that he'll get them to a win. It's early in his career and we don't know for sure where Lamar, Baker, Sam, Allen, etc will be in a few years, but right now Lamar Jackson absolutely is a transcendent QB.

We really have to stop comparing Baker to Favre. Baker's his own guy and stylistically probably compares more to a pro-bowl Jeff Garcia at the peak of his powers or an Andy Dalton. Favre was a bigger, faster athlete and as good and amazing at times Baker's arm is Favre's was an otherworldly cannon. Favre unlike Baker spent countless hours with his Wide Receivers and Tight Ends often making up secret calls and their own plays even early on in his starting days. Baker hasn't shown that type of commitment yet. Brett wasn't a known study of defensive terminology or academic analyzer of defensive film but he had a special instinctual feel for the game that allowed him to produce magic on game day. Baker walks around like he has that special juice but he really doesn't or at least not yet. A lot of Favre's interception were him trying to do absolutely absurd things with throws at the limit or exceeding the limit of arm talent not necessarily just being unable to feel/read defenses. Most of Baker's interceptions (beyond the tipped pass or bad luck ones) come from him just not knowing what is going on. Baker's young and still be a truly great QB, but he ain't no Brett Favre and he likely never will be. And that's fine because Brett Favre is one of the all-time Greats. I just hope he'll be an all-time good player.

We don't know yet. We could be; we could be just fine. What is known now and I'm afraid goes directly against many people's non-reality based beliefs about Baker is that ge is in no way shape or form a Transcendent Elite QB. He's not able to put the team on his back or elevate the play of others via elite understanding and manipulation of defenses or elite timing/anticipatory throwing or elite WR-Pass-Catcher Chemistry in-syncness because of elite work habits in the off-season. He is who many of us thought he was. A good, trailer QB who's success is pulled along/forward by surrounding talent. If his OLine is great and he has great playmakers then can he can be great. He won't pull players along to a high level like the Tractor, Transcendent players. And... that's okay. He can still be good and a winning QB. He can still be a pro-bowl player that way. To me, there are only 6 Transcendent, Tractor (Not Trailer) QBs that Have Ability to consistently transcend deficiencies around them and elevate the players around them: 1.) Russell Wilson 2.) Deshaun Watson 3.) Patrick Mahomes 4.) Aaron Rodgers (fading some) 5.) Lamar Jackson (rising) 6.) Kyler Murray (will be there translating to wins by the end or year 2) The rest fall in to being either elite, good, average, or below average Trailer QBs who depend a tremendous and out-sized amount on what surrounds them.

OBJ was injured this off-season. Many who didn't follow the Giants and their player news would've easily missed that Odell went into the off-season with groin and quad issues. You can go on a boat ride near a tropical island with those injuries, but you can't practice football related movements at a high level. Despite a few early season drops, the vast majority of OBJ issues are the lack of meaningful opportunities via the play-calling, OLine issues, and Baker issues. Even still, OBJ should be getting more opportunities to either fail or succeed. Just as garbage points or garbage yards don't matters so is the case that OBJ targets need to come in more critical, high-leverage situations. Even without WR-chemistry development, Baker failed to make the strides/improvements in getting to the next level of quarterbacking/offensive and defensive scheme understanding. He gets fooled by simplistic late shifts and spooked by pre-snap looks often deciding before the snap where he won't go or give a hard look at. Baker needs to put in the work and time not only mechanically but with how he needs to study and diagnose This off-season (though Baker has been opposed to it in the past) he needs to go to advanced, graduate level QB school and work relentlessly with a QB coach on eye training and how to read defenses. OBJ being unavailable in OTAs doesn't mean Jarvis, Baker, and the rest of the offensive skill players couldn't have tried to get on the same page. The idea that we should trade Odell or that Odell sucks with the Browns because Odell sucks now is just absolutely laughable.

My goodness.. I thought he'd be the one... Beau Bell and Eric Wright say hello...

Dorsey is an elite talent scout with blind spots. His Blind spot scouting-wise is offensive lineman of all varieties and his willingness to draft high risk, high reward players that are unreliable. Also blinded by the toughness and mentality of players in ways that seemingly distorts hi evaluation of their play traits. Corbett was tough as nails. Hand fighting; mean spirited highlights were delightful to watch. However, It was as clear as the day is long that Austin Corbett wasn't a LT even clearer that he didn't have the feet or movement skills or blocking instincts to be a quality starter at OT and even OG. It was clear that Courtland Sutton was the far superior prospect. Talent scouts aren't often elite at coaching searches/hires. OLine and Coaching Search. In a wide-variety of other things, he's exceptional.

We need some good ones indeed. I hear your point on the great ones. Ultimately, our draft position is as important for the 2nd round almost as much as it is for the 1st because the good OLineman always go off the board in the top 12 of the 2nd. So, with 2 or 3 OLine having the 13th versus let's say the 19th overall pick could be the difference between both a 1.) pro-bowl/all-pro immediate starter AND 2.) Another possible less certain to be quality starter in the top of the 2nd round in the case of having a top 13 or so pick VERSUS having a 1.) A possible quality starter less certain to be quality starter and 2.) a developmental starter type. Baker needs really good OLineman.. this a HUGE year with 2 huge holes (RT and RG) and 1 occasional one (LT). We need every chance we can upgrade those positoins in a major way and unfortunately losing 3 or 4 games would get us there.

Are you more sick of the Offensive Line sucking or Losing a handful of more games? Would you rather continue sucking through 3 or 4 more games or continuing to suck next year because our OLine still stinks? In general, yeah... the point that at some point we should be burned out from sucking forever and should just win is a valid one; however, losing/winning doesn't happen in a vacuum. It could mean having one of the most key generational impact talent positions filled (LT/RT) versus not. We're literally talking about 4 games here. I doubt we'll all fall to pieces if we lose 3 more games in the service of more sustained winning in the future via the opportunity to get high quality offensive lineman.