sherm Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 58 minutes ago, 757-NINER said: Meh, I still need to see more. Lol nothing he does in one wk will have any weight vs 13 gms during the season. In a gm where he had 3 sacks and help cause 2 more and u still need to see more...clearly u have him slotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 10 minutes ago, Psychlone said: Sounds like you guys are scouting Manny Lawson I hate to say it, but that's not the worst comp ever. He could absolutely follow that NFL career arc (which is also similar to Anthony Barr) if he never develops his pass rushing abilities. Though it should be noted that Lawson never was in this scheme either and was tasked with being a more well rounded player when he was drafted with us (IE, we used him in a multitude of ways, not just rushing the passer, which is what I would assume that we would do with Allen). Lawson was never quite as proficient rushing the passer in my opinion, but there's merit to what you're saying, I will admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Whoever said Anthony Barr as a comp is reading my mind. That's kind of where I started with him and still seem to be coming back around to. Not a bad player by any stretch but if that is his trajectory, is that worthy of a #2 overall pick? Does he fill the void of a pass-rushing Leo? Is he that legitimate edge-rusher that makes a O-Line slide protection to help block him on 3rd and long? We have talent but what separates us from the good teams is having elite playmakers at impact positions. The ones that have a direct impact on the outcome of the game. If Barr is his comp, do you consider Barr that type of player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIllg Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 minute ago, 757-NINER said: Whoever said Anthony Barr as a comp is reading my mind. That's kind of where I started with him and still seem to be coming back around to. Not a bad player by any stretch but if that is his trajectory, is that worthy of a #2 overall pick? Does he fill the void of a pass-rushing Leo? Is he that legitimate edge-rusher that makes a O-Line slide protection to help block him on 3rd and long? We have talent but what separates us from the good teams is having elite playmakers at impact positions. The ones that have a direct impact on the outcome of the game. If Barr is his comp, do you consider Barr that type of player? I think the Barr comp is fine. As his floor. The ceiling is higher. Much higher. Khalil Mack higher. Making his own nasty hybrid of Barr and Mack higher. Creating his own mold higher. That player is worth the 2nd overall pick. And even Khalil Mack wasn't Khalil Mack in college. Sometimes you have to project a bit and hope. I think he has more functional strength than the Barr and Lawson comps and is better with his hands and with subtle body control on the rush. Now, am I super trusting of our coaching staff on defense helping him to that ceiling through player development and clever scheming? No. Not really. That's an indictment of our guys on that side. And that's the reason you get Bosa, I think, if he's there. His ceiling and floor is slightly better Joey (including possible muscular injury concerns). Still a player that isn't quite a DPOY guy, but is a key piece you're fine with paying at the top level of a premium position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Haven't really watched much of Haskins, but he's nice. Some flaws, but he can really sling it. When he gets his footwork right, he is on money. Even if Herbert declared, not sure he would be picked over Haskins anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 22 minutes ago, 757-NINER said: Whoever said Anthony Barr as a comp is reading my mind. That's kind of where I started with him and still seem to be coming back around to. Not a bad player by any stretch but if that is his trajectory, is that worthy of a #2 overall pick? Does he fill the void of a pass-rushing Leo? Is he that legitimate edge-rusher that makes a O-Line slide protection to help block him on 3rd and long? We have talent but what separates us from the good teams is having elite playmakers at impact positions. The ones that have a direct impact on the outcome of the game. If Barr is his comp, do you consider Barr that type of player? I get what you're saying, but the problem becomes this: Unless you're willing to take Williams (and I know that you are, but others may not be) at #2, there's not a guy that I would trust enough to take there as an edge rushing leo. Guys like Burns / Polite / Jackson / Sweat all have more questions to me than Allen does, and I think all of them are less likely to be quality nfl players than Allen (regardless of how Allen gets there). Thats the conundrum that you have. The other guys listed as going that high are a lot of 3 techs, some guys who probably project more as SDE (Gary, and I find a top 3 pick on him to be much too high) Greedy Williams (which I'll pass on that high), so, if Williams is off the board for the front office, what's the best alternative to Allen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Haven't really watched much of Haskins, but he's nice. Some flaws, but he can really sling it. When he gets his footwork right, he is on money. Even if Herbert declared, not sure he would be picked over Haskins anyways. The biggest issue he has is problems with pressure. You can beat him down and get him frazzled. That may come with experience though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Forge said: The biggest issue he has is problems with pressure. You can beat him down and get him frazzled. That may come with experience though. For sure. Seen him miss some throws early when there was some pressure. But he's also just a one year starter so more he plays the better he will be. Definitely expect some rocky moments year one for him though. Would be great if he ends up going to a run heavy team two take some pressure off of him. Looking at you Jacksonville! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: For sure. Seen him miss some throws early when there was some pressure. But he's also just a one year starter so more he plays the better he will be. Definitely expect some rocky moments year one for him though. Would be great if he ends up going to a run heavy team two take some pressure off of him. Looking at you Jacksonville! Yep, just let him keep pumping up that value lol. I did remember something else we can help Jax with - Bortles. We can take bortles back in any trade. They aren't going to keep him on the roster, but cutting him only yields 4.5 million in cap savings. If they can trade him, they save 11 million. So it's basically like 7 million in cash as part of the trade to get Ramsey. Given that they are currently over the cap, I don't think that is a small thing in any trade. Afterward, we can just cut Bortles, or keep him on the roster and let him compete or whatever. So how about 2 + 4th + CJ (I'd give up Mullens if they asked, but I'd try CJ first) for Ramsey + Bortles + #7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I mean would assure us Bosa but I'm not sure a team needs to trade up to #1 to get Haskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychlone Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Now that would really shake things up ha ha.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: I mean would assure us Bosa but I'm not sure a team needs to trade up to #1 to get Haskins. I would agree, but I also get how a team would not want to take any chances. I think if you're a team like the Giants or Jax, you test the market for both teams. Teams with the #1 pick often times have huge asking prices just because it's first overall. It could be considerably higher return than we would want for #2 to be honest. I think you have something lined up with both teams and then wait until the draft to pull the trigger (you don't pull the trigger for #2 beforehand since it would show your hand to the other team, and then they can go ahead and get the #1 pick from under them). FWIW though, I have no problem with AZ being the team that gets the trade down and the #1 team taking Haskins. I'd rather have Bosa than a trade down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Remember how two years ago, people thought Jake Browning was going to be a top quarterback prospect in round 1 or 2 if he came out. Yeah, those were the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 36 minutes ago, Forge said: Yep, just let him keep pumping up that value lol. I did remember something else we can help Jax with - Bortles. We can take bortles back in any trade. They aren't going to keep him on the roster, but cutting him only yields 4.5 million in cap savings. If they can trade him, they save 11 million. So it's basically like 7 million in cash as part of the trade to get Ramsey. Given that they are currently over the cap, I don't think that is a small thing in any trade. Afterward, we can just cut Bortles, or keep him on the roster and let him compete or whatever. So how about 2 + 4th + CJ (I'd give up Mullens if they asked, but I'd try CJ first) for Ramsey + Bortles + #7 I love how we continue to try to work out trades that will get us Ramsey back LOL. But going down to #7 would be good as well since it would be likely a guy like Burns or Polite would be available there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: I love how we continue to try to work out trades that will get us Ramsey back LOL. But going down to #7 would be good as well since it would be likely a guy like Burns or Polite would be available there. lol, man, I'm going to get us AB and Ramsey by the time this next season starts. And that's before I even head into FA. Let me work my magic!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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