JIllg Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 4 hours ago, Fureys49ers said: Don't quite understand the Metcalf love. Sure he supposedly has other-worldly physical attributes and all the potential in the world but I'm not sure he was ever the best WR on his own team at Ole Miss, both Brown and Lodge shined just as much if not more and remained healthy throughout. I just don't get WR 1 or even 2 vibes from him, more so "a guy with all the tools but no skill in using them" vibes. Brown, Harmon, Ridley, Samuel are guys I see Shanny liking who possess bigger bodies than what we have now at WR but who can run routes, catch reliably and get some YAC. Would love to see one of them added at the top of round 2. Butler, Collin Johnson, Harry, Arcega-Whiteside are bigger guys who intrigue me but I don't quite see Shanny preferring. Some later round guys I like as sleepers are the WRs from Toledo, Tyre Brady, Stanley Morgan, Emmanuel Hall, Keelan Doss, Preston Williams and Jaylen Smith. Honestly, I'm a little confused with Metcalf, too. I saw two quality attributes with him - beating press coverage and vertical speed. Route running, body control, hands, etc. weren't really popping on tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 11 hours ago, Fureys49ers said: Don't quite understand the Metcalf love. Sure he supposedly has other-worldly physical attributes and all the potential in the world but I'm not sure he was ever the best WR on his own team at Ole Miss, both Brown and Lodge shined just as much if not more and remained healthy throughout. I just don't get WR 1 or even 2 vibes from him, more so "a guy with all the tools but no skill in using them" vibes. Brown, Harmon, Ridley, Samuel are guys I see Shanny liking who possess bigger bodies than what we have now at WR but who can run routes, catch reliably and get some YAC. Would love to see one of them added at the top of round 2. Butler, Collin Johnson, Harry, Arcega-Whiteside are bigger guys who intrigue me but I don't quite see Shanny preferring. Some later round guys I like as sleepers are the WRs from Toledo, Tyre Brady, Stanley Morgan, Emmanuel Hall, Keelan Doss, Preston Williams and Jaylen Smith. It's mostly the physical with Metcalf. Height / Weight / Speed. He's got some special physical traits. I think he's josh gordon like. He needs a more expansive route tree, and that will take time, but great release off the line, great physical attributes, can make catches in smaller windows. If there's going to be a top 5 level receiver from this draft (talking Julio / Hopkins level), I think he has the best shot of it. He's got the best upside in this draft to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIllg Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 29 minutes ago, Forge said: It's mostly the physical with Metcalf. Height / Weight / Speed. He's got some special physical traits. I think he's josh gordon like. He needs a more expansive route tree, and that will take time, but great release off the line, great physical attributes, can make catches in smaller windows. If there's going to be a top 5 level receiver from this draft (talking Julio / Hopkins level), I think he has the best shot of it. He's got the best upside in this draft to me. I would suggest N'Keal Harry for that, personally. But I have a higher opinion of his athleticism than you do. I think he's going to test at an elite level in short area explosiveness drills - his ability to cut pops off tape and is proven by the tackles he breaks (and, heck, Az State used him as a wildcat quarterback and punt returner). Usually the big lumbering types aren't that hard to bring down side-to-side, they just run through you or over you. This is, however, an inexact process and multiple considered opinions can be more accurate than one alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, JIllg said: I would suggest N'Keal Harry for that, personally. But I have a higher opinion of his athleticism than you do. I think he's going to test at an elite level in short area explosiveness drills - his ability to cut pops off tape and is proven by the tackles he breaks (and, heck, Az State used him as a wildcat quarterback and punt returner). Usually the big lumbering types aren't that hard to bring down side-to-side, they just run through you or over you. This is, however, an inexact process and multiple considered opinions can be more accurate than one alone. I like Harry. I don't think that he has the upside of Metcalf overall, but his inside / outside versatility will make him a quality player in the NFL. I think Harry is a top of the second guy (have no problem if he's our pick in the second round), while Metcalf is probably late first. It's not a world of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIllg Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Forge said: I like Harry. I don't think that he has the upside of Metcalf overall, but his inside / outside versatility will make him a quality player in the NFL. I think Harry is a top of the second guy (have no problem if he's our pick in the second round), while Metcalf is probably late first. It's not a world of difference. I more or less agree. I have them both at roughly the same tier of receivers - late first or early second. I just like Harry's upside better. I have tape of him doing special things with a football and if his athleticism is functional enough, those special things will continue in the NFL. Metcalf doesn't have much tape aside from uncovering really well against Alabama's press man coverage and catching some bombs. I haven't seen his route running (Harry didn't have much of a route tree in college either, but when they did let him run routes, I thought his hips were pretty darn good for such a big guy and his steps were precise). I haven't seen Metcalf do anything after the catch, run through tackles. He really hasn't done slotty things like sit routes down in zones. He is darn near missing a whole leg of the tape+character+observable physical gifts trio that I prefer to have on prospects. It makes him hard to project and higher variance. I pretty much know that A.J. Brown is going to be a heck of a big slot guy, for instance, and that you're taking a gamble if you want to play him at X or Z. I don't know much at all about Metcalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinerNation21 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 30 minutes ago, Forge said: I like Harry. I don't think that he has the upside of Metcalf overall, but his inside / outside versatility will make him a quality player in the NFL. I think Harry is a top of the second guy (have no problem if he's our pick in the second round), while Metcalf is probably late first. It's not a world of difference. 1 If you're suggesting that he has the ability to play multiple WR positions at a high level, then he will instantly shoot up the 49ers' draft board as Shanny has said, on multiple occasions, that he values that flexibility greatly. He's praised Pettis several times throughout the season for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 minute ago, NinerNation21 said: If you're suggesting that he has the ability to play multiple WR positions at a high level, then he will instantly shoot up the 49ers' draft board as Shanny has said, on multiple occasions, that he values that flexibility greatly. He's praised Pettis several times throughout the season for this. He can. Herm Edwards starting pushing him more in the slot this year rather than on the outside because Herm thought his future in the NFL was on the inside. But he has experience playing both throughout his career. I don't think that he's particularly adept at getting the most out of creating separation - he should be a guy that uses his hands more to get those allowable push offs (think like Hopkins does). Once the ball is in his hands though, he's a monster. As Jlllg said, I'm not as high on his athleticism. I don't think he'll run amazingly well (probably high 4.5's) and I dont' think he'll have a blazing 3 cone or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fureys49ers Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Love Harry but I think a team like the Colts or Ravens look to add him at the end of the 1st. He’s my WR 1 this draft. I understand Metcalf’s abilities and the excitement that comes at the thought of that coming all together but he’s had durability concerns on top of needing to work on the little things that truly make WRs great. Don’t get me wrong I’m a fan of Tyrell Williams, who Metcalf reminds me of, and would love a WR like that on our team just not at the end of the 1st or early 2nd in terms of value. Speaking on that position flexibility Shanny likes so much in his WRs I would love to see AJ Brown chosen with our 2nd if he’s still there. The versatility, playing slot often in college but not limited to it, and YAC ability he has in addition to Kittle, Pettis, Goodwin, and McKinnon’s skill set would be dynamic under Shanny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinerNation21 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 57 minutes ago, Forge said: He can. Herm Edwards starting pushing him more in the slot this year rather than on the outside because Herm thought his future in the NFL was on the inside. But he has experience playing both throughout his career. I don't think that he's particularly adept at getting the most out of creating separation - he should be a guy that uses his hands more to get those allowable push offs (think like Hopkins does). Once the ball is in his hands though, he's a monster. As Jlllg said, I'm not as high on his athleticism. I don't think he'll run amazingly well (probably high 4.5's) and I dont' think he'll have a blazing 3 cone or anything. He's definitely an interesting prospect. As I learn more about Shannahan and what he likes in WR's, I've been trying to keep a mental checklist when evaluating WR's: Is he agile and have a good 3 cone time? Can he separate multiple ways (with hands, with quick movements, with technique)? Can he play multiple WR positions to a great effect? Is he an effective route runner and can run multiple different routes to great effect? I think if a WR checks all of those boxes (and maybe more that I'm not thinking about) I would assume he's pretty attractive to the Niners' FO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Holywood Brown or bust!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fureys49ers Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Holywood Brown or bust!!!! I like him enough, size scares me with little WRs every time especially since I see a lot of TY Hilton in Brown’s game, but we have plenty of lollipop guild lining up at WR for us (I’m a fan of Taylor, James and Goodwin BTW) just would like to see someone with a little size added to the group. Some one who can win with physicality. I’m talking 6’0 or more who’s not super slender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Fureys49ers said: I like him enough, size scares me with little WRs every time especially since I see a lot of TY Hilton in Brown’s game, but we have plenty of lollipop guild lining up at WR for us (I’m a fan of Taylor, James and Goodwin BTW) just would like to see someone with a little size added to the group. Some one who can win with physicality. I’m talking 6’0 or more who’s not super slender. Hollywood Brown is an outside WR and not strictly in the slot. He's the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fureys49ers Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Hollywood Brown is an outside WR and not strictly in the slot. He's the truth. To my understanding Hilton lines up all over for the Colts, both sides and the slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinerNation21 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Hollywood Brown is an outside WR and not strictly in the slot. He's the truth. He's similar to Goodwin, no? Honestly, Michael Crabtree from 2012 could be a monster in this offense. His YAC ability and route running would be very deadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, Fureys49ers said: To my understanding Hilton lines up all over for the Colts, both sides and the slot. Correct, and Brown could do the same. Not fair to compare him to Taylor or James. 5 minutes ago, NinerNation21 said: He's similar to Goodwin, no? Honestly, Michael Crabtree from 2012 could be a monster in this offense. His YAC ability and route running would be very deadly. Crabtree was on his way to becoming a Pro Bowl WR and then he tears his Achilles. Smh, definitely would have been good in this system. One late round target is KeeSean Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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