2019 NFL Draft - Quarterbacks

[TVScout]

12 hours ago, AlNFL19 said:

Is this implying that Garoppolo is your comparison for Jones.........?

Yes.

[AlNFL19]

2 minutes ago, TVScout said:

Yes.

No offense, but I really don't see that comparison. Garoppolo is more accurate and has a better arm, but most of all Garoppolo's release is so fast it's ridiculous. Like Dan Marino fast, according to his coach, whereas Jones' release is kind of slow and elongated.

[TVScout]

22 minutes ago, AlNFL19 said:

No offense, but I really don't see that comparison. Garoppolo is more accurate and has a better arm, but most of all Garoppolo's release is so fast it's ridiculous. Like Dan Marino fast, according to his coach, whereas Jones' release is kind of slow and elongated.

Are you comparing the 2014 prospect or the 2018 pro QB? Not the same guy. 

To me the quick release is a mechanics issue that can be changed with good coaching. The big similarity between the two as prospects is physique and body language. They both show the same sort of nervous feet and tendency to scramble when under pressure. I also believe Jones is at the same level of quality as a pre draft pre combine prospect and should be picked at about the same range. 

[CWood21]

Am I crazy for thinking Jordan Ta'amu is better than people are letting him on to be?  I'm not saying he's going to be a franchise QB or anything, but that's a high end backup in a realistic "floor" scenario.

[CWood21]

Quote

Quarterbacks

1st Round Grade
None

2nd Round Grade
1.) Dwayne Haskins [QB; Ohio State]

3rd Round Grade
2.) Will Grier [QB; West Virginia]
3.) Kyler Murray [QB; Oklahoma]
4.) Drew Lock [QB; Missouri]

4th Round Grade
5.) Jordan Ta'amu [QB; Ole Miss]
6.) Daniel Jones [QB; Duke]
7.) Brett Rypien [QB; Boise State]

5th Round Grade
8.) Jarrett Stidham [QB; Auburn]
9.) Ryan Finley [QB; NC State]

6th Round Grade
10.) Clayton Thorson [QB: Northwestern]
11.) Easton Stick [QB; North Dakota State]

7th Round Grade
None

UDFA Grade
David Blough [QB; Purdue]
Jake Browning [QB; Washington]
Taylor Cornelius [QB; Oklahoma State]
Eric Dungey [QB; Syracuse]
Nick Fitzgerald [QB; Mississippi State]
Tanner Magnum [QB; BYU]
Trace McSorley [QB; Penn State]
Gardner Mishnew [QB; Washington]
Kyle Shurmer [QB; Northwestern]
Manny Wilkins [QB; Arizona State]

My initial QB rankings.

[Raves]

44 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

 

Quote

Quarterbacks

1st Round Grade
None

2nd Round Grade
1.) Dwayne Haskins [QB; Ohio State]

3rd Round Grade
2.) Will Grier [QB; West Virginia]
3.) Kyler Murray [QB; Oklahoma]
4.) Drew Lock [QB; Missouri]

4th Round Grade
5.) Jordan Ta'amu [QB; Ole Miss]
6.) Daniel Jones [QB; Duke]
7.) Brett Rypien [QB; Boise State]

5th Round Grade
8.) Jarrett Stidham [QB; Auburn]
9.) Ryan Finley [QB; NC State]

6th Round Grade
10.) Clayton Thorson [QB: Northwestern]
11.) Easton Stick [QB; North Dakota State]

7th Round Grade
None

UDFA Grade
David Blough [QB; Purdue]
Jake Browning [QB; Washington]
Taylor Cornelius [QB; Oklahoma State]
Eric Dungey [QB; Syracuse]
Nick Fitzgerald [QB; Mississippi State]
Tanner Magnum [QB; BYU]
Trace McSorley [QB; Penn State]
Gardner Mishnew [QB; Washington]
Kyle Shurmer [QB; Northwestern]
Manny Wilkins [QB; Arizona State]

My initial QB rankings.

 

So that's your initial rankings for their grades, but where do you think they will be drafted?  Also why so low on Haskins?  He seems to have everything you want from a franchise QB outside of number of starts.  Easily on par with the QBs from last years draft in regards to talent.

[CWood21]

35 minutes ago, Raves said:

So that's your initial rankings for their grades, but where do you think they will be drafted?  Also why so low on Haskins?  He seems to have everything you want from a franchise QB outside of number of starts.  Easily on par with the QBs from last years draft in regards to talent.

Of course not.  Dwayne Haskins is going to be a top 10 pick, and at least one of Lock/Grier/Murray should go in the first round as well if not multiple will.  Let me ask you this, how many of the draft-eligible QBs that you switch places with Haskins wouldn't see a drop off?  There's more than a few that I believe who can play at a same level, if not higher than Haskins.  But going back to the film, watch how many of his throws are coming either off a dump off to a RB or short, quick underneath passes.  He's not throwing into tight windows, and he doesn't consistently push the ball vertically.  His deep ball accuracy is a concern, but his short-to-intermediate accuracy isn't.  He's inconsistent under pressure.  He's got prototypical size for an NFL QB.

And the number of starts is a red flag.  I'm not as strict about the QB rules like Bill Parcells is, but there's actually some historical evidence that limited game time is a hinderance.  It isn't the end all, be all to the discussion but it's a red flag nonetheless.  How many games have we seen him struggle in?  The last time the Buckeyes didn't win at least 10 games was back in 2011.  There's a TON of talent on that roster, which is going to help mask the issues he has.  Don't get me wrong, he's a good prospect but he's not nearly as impressive as some of the other guys we've seen in recent years.

[Raves]

5 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Of course not.  Dwayne Haskins is going to be a top 10 pick, and at least one of Lock/Grier/Murray should go in the first round as well if not multiple will.  Let me ask you this, how many of the draft-eligible QBs that you switch places with Haskins wouldn't see a drop off?  There's more than a few that I believe who can play at a same level, if not higher than Haskins.  But going back to the film, watch how many of his throws are coming either off a dump off to a RB or short, quick underneath passes.  He's not throwing into tight windows, and he doesn't consistently push the ball vertically.  His deep ball accuracy is a concern, but his short-to-intermediate accuracy isn't.  He's inconsistent under pressure.  He's got prototypical size for an NFL QB.

And the number of starts is a red flag.  I'm not as strict about the QB rules like Bill Parcells is, but there's actually some historical evidence that limited game time is a hinderance.  It isn't the end all, be all to the discussion but it's a red flag nonetheless.  How many games have we seen him struggle in?  The last time the Buckeyes didn't win at least 10 games was back in 2011.  There's a TON of talent on that roster, which is going to help mask the issues he has.  Don't get me wrong, he's a good prospect but he's not nearly as impressive as some of the other guys we've seen in recent years.

Well Ohio State's WRs have been their worst unit, much like the Saints so that is somewhat expected.  I've seen him make a good number of deeper throws, though I haven't watched as intensively as you have.  I think in the combine he'll be able to really show his ability to throw down field.  He's obviously still very raw and probably should've returned for another year no doubt, but considering the weapons he would have to work with and the fact he would be guaranteed the top QB off teh board in this draft I can't blame him, just looking at what I have seen him do, such as the 10-15 yard out routes that Ohio State likes to run, he was hitting WRs consistently and those are tougher throws than improving your deep ball with a better receivers IMO, though you've obviously watched more of the tape to break it down than I have.

[CWood21]

4 minutes ago, Raves said:

Well Ohio State's WRs have been their worst unit, much like the Saints so that is somewhat expected.  I've seen him make a good number of deeper throws, though I haven't watched as intensively as you have.  I think in the combine he'll be able to really show his ability to throw down field.  He's obviously still very raw and probably should've returned for another year no doubt, but considering the weapons he would have to work with and the fact he would be guaranteed the top QB off teh board in this draft I can't blame him, just looking at what I have seen him do, such as the 10-15 yard out routes that Ohio State likes to run, he was hitting WRs consistently and those are tougher throws than improving your deep ball with a better receivers IMO, though you've obviously watched more of the tape to break it down than I have.

I'm not going to argue that they're flush with talent by any means, but there is enough talent there to work with.  And it's not even about talent level.  Look at the amount of cushion that opposing corners are giving their receivers.  The play calling gives him a ton of high percentage throws.  Look how many of his throws are in the first ten yards.  Compare that to the number of throws in the 10-15 yard range.  They're giving him high percentage throws that is fluffing up his completion percentage.  They're taking the decision making out of his hands.  And I'm not saying it's going to be an issue as we just saw Tom Brady carve up the Chiefs' D by doing that, but if you're asking me if he's going to be the guy whose going to carry a franchise I'm not sure I'd be able to answer yes.

Let's get this out there.  There's no immediate red flags with him, but there's also not a long track record that you're comfortable with him investing a top 10 pick in, which is where he's going to go.

[Scoundrel]

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Am I crazy for thinking Jordan Ta'amu is better than people are letting him on to be?  I'm not saying he's going to be a franchise QB or anything, but that's a high end backup in a realistic "floor" scenario.

I am a Ta’amu fan. I posted a little about him in the Broncos forum about what I saw. 

[Raves]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I'm not going to argue that they're flush with talent by any means, but there is enough talent there to work with.  And it's not even about talent level.  Look at the amount of cushion that opposing corners are giving their receivers.  The play calling gives him a ton of high percentage throws.  Look how many of his throws are in the first ten yards.  Compare that to the number of throws in the 10-15 yard range.  They're giving him high percentage throws that is fluffing up his completion percentage.  They're taking the decision making out of his hands.  And I'm not saying it's going to be an issue as we just saw Tom Brady carve up the Chiefs' D by doing that, but if you're asking me if he's going to be the guy whose going to carry a franchise I'm not sure I'd be able to answer yes.

Let's get this out there.  There's no immediate red flags with him, but there's also not a long track record that you're comfortable with him investing a top 10 pick in, which is where he's going to go.

Fair enough.  I was just curious because I didn't see a big difference in his performance this year and the few games I saw of Rosen and Darnold, though obviously I didn't see a lot of there games, and I thought talent wise they are similar, but the lack of experience would be concerning for me as a team for sure.

Also who do you think might be the best players at QB that the Saints could target at the end of the second.  I think Haskins would be a perfect fit for the Saints offense but there is a lower chance of the Saints drafting him than the NFL replaying the NFCCG due to the controversy.  Not sure who else might be a good fit.

[CWood21]

10 minutes ago, Raves said:

Fair enough.  I was just curious because I didn't see a big difference in his performance this year and the few games I saw of Rosen and Darnold, though obviously I didn't see a lot of there games, and I thought talent wise they are similar, but the lack of experience would be concerning for me as a team for sure.

Also who do you think might be the best players at QB that the Saints could target at the end of the second.  I think Haskins would be a perfect fit for the Saints offense but there is a lower chance of the Saints drafting him than the NFL replaying the NFCCG due to the controversy.  Not sure who else might be a good fit.

Both Rosen and Darnold had significantly longer track records.  And we're seeing the difference between a Darnold-led USC team and one without it.  In the 2 years with Darnold as the starting QB, the Trojans went 21-6.  Without him, they went 5-7.  UCLA went 17-13 with Josh Rosen as their starting QB, although the talent level is significantly lower than USC or Ohio State.

As far as your second question, I'm not sure you're looking at a potential franchise QB.  I think you're better off trying to resign Bridgewater, and maximize the window with Drew Brees.

[Raves]

6 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Both Rosen and Darnold had significantly longer track records.  And we're seeing the difference between a Darnold-led USC team and one without it.  In the 2 years with Darnold as the starting QB, the Trojans went 21-6.  Without him, they went 5-7.  UCLA went 17-13 with Josh Rosen as their starting QB, although the talent level is significantly lower than USC or Ohio State.

As far as your second question, I'm not sure you're looking at a potential franchise QB.  I think you're better off trying to resign Bridgewater, and maximize the window with Drew Brees.

So try one more year, then suck for TL the year after... got it.  

[JBURGE]

9 minutes ago, Raves said:

So try one more year, then suck for TL the year after... got it.  

- every NFL team

[Raves]

1 minute ago, JBURGE said:

- every NFL team

Except maybe the Chiefs.

This might be the first time in NFL history that the NFL has 5 teams with 2 or less wins.  Going to look like the NBA.