5 up/5 down; The Mahowned edition

[SMashMouthMike]

1.offense

2.defense

3.Special Teams

4.The Model/Vision/Direction - It used to be 1)have a scheme, 2)draft talent, 3)develop talent to fit THAT scheme. But imho, the schemes are poo on both sides of the ball. Rules changes are part of our difficulty. Prima donna's are another part of it. Lack of leadership/coaching/front office problems are also also there. But it, the model, has somewhat reversed itself I think to... 1)jettison softees & donna's , 2) replace them with young cubs,  and 3) Adopt a new'ish' scheme. This team has needed to play more man coverage and 1 gap for awhile. The slop on offense has been there for awhile. But coaches love their schemes to a fault so the divorce is going to be rough, if it happens at all.

5.Quit being a Circus- Everyone is trying to do too much, in too many areas. Stop doing that. Go back to basics. Don't be Rodeo and Circus Clowns. Be Lions. Be great at your job, and don't tolerate softness. Get rid of the softees.

[3rivers]

4 hours ago, SMashMouthMike said:

1.offense

2.defense

3.Special Teams

4.The Model/Vision/Direction - It used to be 1)have a scheme, 2)draft talent, 3)develop talent to fit THAT scheme. But imho, the schemes are poo on both sides of the ball. Rules changes are part of our difficulty. Prima donna's are another part of it. Lack of leadership/coaching/front office problems are also also there. But it, the model, has somewhat reversed itself I think to... 1)jettison softees & donna's , 2) replace them with young cubs,  and 3) Adopt a new'ish' scheme. This team has needed to play more man coverage and 1 gap for awhile. The slop on offense has been there for awhile. But coaches love their schemes to a fault so the divorce is going to be rough, if it happens at all.

5.Quit being a Circus- Everyone is trying to do too much, in too many areas. Stop doing that. Go back to basics. Don't be Rodeo and Circus Clowns. Be Lions. Be great at your job, and don't tolerate softness. Get rid of the softees.

IOW, clean house and start over but keep the good core players. It probably got to this by the culture and coaches allowing all the above. Unless something drastic happens with existing roster and coaches, I see more underachieving and as in a few more years until the owners finally have heard enough of the word underachievers. By then many players will be past their prime or on their way out and , many consecutive  years wasted . What was the last team to underachieve for 8+ years straight with elite talent on offence? 

[jebrick]

I think the Talent is there but the leadership is not.

Tomlin and all coaches have to go.  Hire a HC that will

a) take over the team and install discipline.

b) make changes to the tired scheme.

Part of B is Art2 et al must allow the Steelers to move on from the 3-4 to a different defense.  It could be a 4-3.  It could be a hybrid.  It means shaking up the scouts.

Could this mean that Ben & company will not be playing for a SB while Roethlesburger is still on the team?  Yes, but they sure are not playing for one now.

[warfelg]

6 minutes ago, jebrick said:

I think the Talent is there but the leadership is not.

Tomlin and all coaches have to go.  Hire a HC that will

a) take over the team and install discipline.

b) make changes to the tired scheme.

Part of B is Art2 et al must allow the Steelers to move on from the 3-4 to a different defense.  It could be a 4-3.  It could be a hybrid.  It means shaking up the scouts.

Could this mean that Ben & company will not be playing for a SB while Roethlesburger is still on the team?  Yes, but they sure are not playing for one now.

Disagree on the talent part.  Heavy on top end, goes downhill too fast.

Discipline - we don't know what's going on behind closed doors, unless you are referring to the play.

Part B I couldn't agree with anymore.  I means shaking up scouts, defensive coaching, mindset, players.  I think we only got 2 maybe three full time players in a converted hybrid defense.  Heyward, Watt, maybe Tuitt.

[warfelg]

So I got to admit....I got an issue.

Everywhere I look I'm seeing nothing but praise for Mahomes.  But I watch this tape:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000962984/Every-Patrick-Mahomes-throw-Week-2

All I see is wide open throw after wide open throw.  2 passes that were close to contested.  WHY CAN'T PEOPLE PUT THIS IN THE RIGHT MIND SET!

[jebrick]

He is hitting the wide open receivers.  Ben missed a few of those.

[dante9876]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

So I got to admit....I got an issue.

Everywhere I look I'm seeing nothing but praise for Mahomes.  But I watch this tape:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000962984/Every-Patrick-Mahomes-throw-Week-2

All I see is wide open throw after wide open throw.  2 passes that were close to contested.  WHY CAN'T PEOPLE PUT THIS IN THE RIGHT MIND SET!

He has 10 tds in first 2 games. He still has to read the defense, find open guy and hit him. Quite a few qbs in league that cant do that. 

[Chieferific]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

So I got to admit....I got an issue.

Everywhere I look I'm seeing nothing but praise for Mahomes.  But I watch this tape:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000962984/Every-Patrick-Mahomes-throw-Week-2

All I see is wide open throw after wide open throw.  2 passes that were close to contested.  WHY CAN'T PEOPLE PUT THIS IN THE RIGHT MIND SET!

I get what you're saying but IDK, that TD pass when he was flushed out and zipped one between defenders was pretty special. Remember this is his 2nd year and 1st year as a starter. The arrow is pointing up.

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, Chieferific said:

I get what you're saying but IDK, that TD pass when he was flushed out and zipped one between defenders was pretty special. Remember this is his 2nd year and 1st year as a starter. The arrow is pointing up.

That's one of the ones I was impressed by, I'll be honest with that.  But there was still more wide open throws than not.

[3rivers]

5 hours ago, warfelg said:

Disagree on the talent part.  Heavy on top end, goes downhill too fast.

many have said the steelers are the most talented and have been for about 5 years. The offence should outscore anyone while the D will allow it to be a shoot out.

 

5 hours ago, jebrick said:

I think the Talent is there but the leadership is not.

Tomlin and all coaches have to go.  Hire a HC that will

a) take over the team and install discipline.

b) make changes to the tired scheme.

100% right but will they make the changes? The longer this goes on for, the longer it will take to change .  Change the scheme weekly to suite the opponents. Last week I would have had Thomas at LB to cover Kelce for example.  As for the scheme, ours was old new a long time ago, figured  out but he good QB's. Now I don't even know what the players are doing when opponents are wide open. Then there is the tackling, which has been lousy but where does the blame go there? 

 

3 hours ago, jebrick said:

He is hitting the wide open receivers.  Ben missed a few of those.

Ben has been terrible in september since 2015 for some reason.  Will it finally cost us a playoff spot and cause some changes in the organization ? This schedule looks difficult and a bad start might cost us. Last years schedule was laughable at best, this one is a legit test. 

[Dcash4]

Sorry in advance -- this got ranty. I started typing calmly and frustration came out. 

I don't think our problem on defense is the talent (or lack thereof), I think its entirely Keith Butler. Lesser talents can be put together and not play a complete nightmare of a game like we just saw. He doesn't understand match ups, he doesn't understand talents, he doesn't understand communication -- no level of talent fixes that. Our guys cannot communicate across all three levels for the 3rd year in a row when everyone in room knows that its an issue? That's not players. We cant figure out how to sub, when to sub, or who to sub? That's not on the players. 

At this point, I would much rather us be simple and singular and see what comes. Its obvious that Butler cannot dial up a game and manage stops. We changed defensive front, sub package, zones, man -- he throws the sink at you and he cant stop anything.

My most infuriating thing over the last 2 years -- Artie Burns is a Man cover guy, a style of defense that largely reflects in cover 3. Sean Davis seemed to fit nicely in his middle 1/3rd role in the first game, he has failed in his 1/2 role in the past. We do not employ a middle linebacker who can cover the deep middle in a C2........SO WHY THE HELL DO WE CONTINUE TO RUN C2?! Everyone blames Colbert or Bostic or Williams for not being able to cover that space....here is a thought...DONT PUT YOUR GUYS IN THAT SPACE AGAINST A TEAM WHO CAN DOMINATE IT. If our safeties are not good enough to cover half the field, dont make them do it. If Artie Burns gets lost trying to decide if he is short, if he goes inside, or if he stays deep -- don't put him in that scenario. Dupree is not a good defensive player, yet we line him up all over the place like he is James Harrison and we are making the offensive worry. The only think that does is make the offensive lineman across from him the happiest person in the world. 

Butler has no clue what he is doing. He doesn't understand matchups and "if I do A, they might do B". Steelers Depot just highlighted a wonderful Butler-ism where he threw the same look at a the Chiefs twice -- which put Watt on Sammy freaking Watkins man-to-man. Watkins isnt good, but guess who wins that match-up 99 times out of 100. 

If you want to run some of these concepts -- fine, figure out your personnel. Want to play C2 against Kelce -- okay, but you need Watt, Edmunds, or Burnett covering that middle. You want to run the same blitz at a team twice in a row -- great, but you need to recognize the weakness you created because the other team sure did. 

He just seems to call a game like he has never spent a minute with any of the players he has at his disposal. We continually put guys in a position to fail, over and over again. I am not a knee jerk "fire them" person, but if we watch OJ Howard walk down the middle of the field against a cover 2 and catch a pass while Bostic/Williams chase behind I will have lost complete confidence in this coaching staff that they actually understand issues and will just continue to coach as if things will fix themselves. 

Tomlin had a huge role in bringing Bradley in after he initially said no to the job. Part of me wondered if that was a move to bring in a potential DC candidate if Butler ultimately didn't work out. I assumed that it would take an entire year, which would benefit Bradley getting some NFL experience -- but after Sundays game I would be ready to give it a try come week 4. 

 

[3rivers]

3 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

My most infuriating thing over the last 2 years -- Artie Burns is a Man cover guy,

is this sarcasm? He got burned for 4 TD's against the chiefs . He needs to be on the sidelines but when will they finally realize this? He is worse than antwan blake  now that I think of it, it's just now teams are attacking him, and he was a CB1 last week . You would think Mahommes would attack  other CB's  but guess what, he threw at burns, our RD1 pick .  Burns is looking like he will give Jarvis Jones a run for the worst RD1 pick in recent time for this team

[warfelg]

If you're passing it like that to just he stinks it seems as though you aren't really watching the plays and knowing that the calls are.

[Dcash4]

13 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

is this sarcasm? He got burned for 4 TD's against the chiefs . He needs to be on the sidelines but when will they finally realize this? He is worse than antwan blake  now that I think of it, it's just now teams are attacking him, and he was a CB1 last week . You would think Mahommes would attack  other CB's  but guess what, he threw at burns, our RD1 pick .  Burns is looking like he will give Jarvis Jones a run for the worst RD1 pick in recent time for this team

When you read what I wrote and decided to quote me on it— what in the world did you think I wrote to respond with something that has nothing to do with my comment? 

[Chieferific]

10 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

is this sarcasm? He got burned for 4 TD's against the chiefs . He needs to be on the sidelines but when will they finally realize this? He is worse than antwan blake  now that I think of it, it's just now teams are attacking him, and he was a CB1 last week . You would think Mahommes would attack  other CB's  but guess what, he threw at burns, our RD1 pick .  Burns is looking like he will give Jarvis Jones a run for the worst RD1 pick in recent time for this team

There are several false statements here. Burns is a Man Cover guy. It wasn't sarcasm. He did not give up 4 TDs. He was the cover man on 2 of them. The 1st was off a scramble by Mahomes who then made one of the better TD throws I've ever seen. The 2nd he was matched up 1 on 1 with Hill with single safety high. Davis should have known Burns couldn't keep up with Hill (No one can) and shaded over. And yet, he was not even close to the play. So besides those 2, 2 were in the middle to the TE (that's LB/S responsibility), 1 to the RB in the Flat (LB/S responsibility) and 1 deep to the WR when Burns was playing Zone (S responsibility). I'm not the biggest fan of Burns but I find myself constantly having to defend him against unfair criticism.